The Case for Bombing Iran

[Cool Breeze]

Here is an interesting read: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm...e.aip?id=10882

I did find this part to be a bit scary -

But listen to what Bernard Lewis, the greatest authority of our time on the Islamic world, has to say in this context on the subject of deterrence:

MAD, mutual assured destruction, [was effective] right through the cold war. Both sides had nuclear weapons. Neither side used them, because both sides knew the other would retaliate in kind. This will not work with a religious fanatic [like Ahmadinejad]. For him, mutual assured destruction is not a deterrent, it is an inducement. We know already that [Iran’s leaders] do not give a damn about killing their own people in great numbers. We have seen it again and again. In the final scenario, and this applies all the more strongly if they kill large numbers of their own people, they are doing them a favor. They are giving them a quick free pass to heaven and all its delights.
Nor are they inhibited by a love of country:

We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.
These were the words of the Ayatollah Khomeini, who ruled Iran from 1979 to 1989, and there is no reason to suppose that his disciple Ahmadinejad feels any differently.

Still less would deterrence work where Israel was concerned. For as the Ayatollah Rafsanjani (who is supposedly a “pragmatic conservative”) has declared:

If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession. . . application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel, but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world.
In other words, Israel would be destroyed in a nuclear exchange, but Iran would survive.

[Spider]

cant believe you bought into this shít , Pakistan , India have nukes , both those countries are far more aggressive then Iran ...... not saying Iran should have nukes ,but it is hardly a reason to bomb them .........

[Rohirrim]

To me, this whole article brings up a completely different reaction. First, we need to immediately pour our intellectual and creative powers into alternative energies, especially the utilization of oil shales to power our military. Then, as those alternative energies become viable, we need to market them to the world. This would suck the power out of the Islamic world. While we need oil, they hold the trump card.

[BRNCOS1]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

To me, this whole article brings up a completely different reaction. First, we need to immediately pour our intellectual and creative powers into alternative energies, especially the utilization of oil shales to power our military. Then, as those alternative energies become viable, we need to market them to the world. This would suck the power out of the Islamic world. While we need oil, they hold the trump card.

Why can't we as Americans put two and two together? Our biggest enemy right now, terrorists, are supported by oil money, but we can't be bothered with carpools, walking, and other ways of saving money on gas.

We all should be doing something to reduce our use of gas this weekend, in honor of our troops for Memorial Day. I tried to get something going at work, had no responses. I was going to my brother's for a picnic, a 1 hour drive, but cancelled because of these high gas prices.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by Cool Breeze

Here is an interesting read: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm...e.aip?id=10882

I did find this part to be a bit scary -

But listen to what Bernard Lewis, the greatest authority of our time on the Islamic world, has to say in this context on the subject of deterrence:
.

Greatest authority of our time on the Islamic world?

I hate to pop your over inflated balloon, but Bernard Lewis was the neo cons' poster child. It was he who inspired the US invasion of Iraq. He was the theoretician, if not the architect, the clown who coined the phrase "clash of civilizations"

that gave Cheney and Bush their rationale for war.

In other words, he was a fool. He didn't know **** from shinola. It was all a lie.

If you don't know this by now -- then, buddy, you are either asleep or on drugs.

I suggest you do some reading on Iran. You could do a lot worse than by starting here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article13590.htm

or here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article3288.htm

or here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/gaffney05222003.html

[Bob]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Greatest authority of our time on the Islamic world?

I hate to pop your over inflated balloon, but Bernard Lewis was the neo cons' poster child. It was he who inspired the US invasion of Iraq. He was the theoretician, if not the architect, the clown who coined the phrase "clash of civilizations"

that gave Cheney and Bush their rationale for war.

In other words, he was a fool. He didn't know **** from shinola. It was all a lie.

If you don't know this by now -- then, buddy, you are either asleep or on drugs.

I suggest you do some reading on Iran. You could do a lot worse than by starting here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article13590.htm

or here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article3288.htm

or here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/gaffney05222003.html

Like the witch on the wizard of Oz, "sleep, my pretty. go to sleep"

There is no threat, ignore what the leaders of Iran are saying, everything is fine, we are ok, read another book from Al Gore....smoke some pot....

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Bob

Like the witch on the wizard of Oz, "sleep, my pretty. go to sleep"

There is no threat, ignore what the leaders of Iran are saying, everything is fine, we are ok, read another book from Al Gore....smoke some pot....

AAH, to hear the beating of the "war drums" once again is, so PREDICTABLE!

[colosilverado]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Greatest authority of our time on the Islamic world?

I hate to pop your over inflated balloon, but Bernard Lewis was the neo cons' poster child. It was he who inspired the US invasion of Iraq. He was the theoretician, if not the architect, the clown who coined the phrase "clash of civilizations"

that gave Cheney and Bush their rationale for war.

In other words, he was a fool. He didn't know **** from shinola. It was all a lie.

If you don't know this by now -- then, buddy, you are either asleep or on drugs.

I suggest you do some reading on Iran. You could do a lot worse than by starting here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article13590.htm

or here:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article3288.htm

or here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/gaffney05222003.html

Oh yes, let's read that great and well-known author/scholar Mark Gaffney's non-biased sense of reality as a basis for how we should view Iran instead.

Disclaimer: I don't, however, feel like we should be bombing Iran or anyone else right now.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

AAH, to hear the beating of the "war drums" once again is, so PREDICTABLE!

At least being willing to know what we are up against is part of surviving as a society, that being said, so also is knowing when to fight, and when to hold back. I think we should have held back before going into Iraq, but once we had disrupted things there things have became very difficult for us morally, and otherwise. If our country is not willing to win, would it simply be better to pull out now, rather then spend more American lives, and bleed more resources into something that the media has decided it was not going to back?

Regarding Iran I would NOT be inclined at this point to do anything preemptive, but yes, their government leaders and the ideology they hold to are at direct opposition to the West. How they fight against us, and we against the ideas they hold is a different topic of debate.

What I keep getting back to is if they are teaching their children through Micky-mouse like cartoons, and if a hatred is taught about all things western, if ideas of tolerance within Middle Eastern counties are framed as Pro American, and anti Islam, how does the US fight against the minority that will always exist? It doesn’t take a majority of radicals within nations to become a real threat to us here, if they are willing to use tactics like 911 to hit us, which as you know were extremely disruptive. Society is fragile, and worth fighting for, what I am unsure about is our nation’s ability to even see the threats posed by an ideology, much less maintain the unity we need to actively fight and prevail against it.

Also, quite frankly I am not sure if “fighting” in this case has to be military-based, or a mixture of military-diplomacy and propaganda. I would only want to stir that hornet’s nest as a last resort, and we are not close to that point yet. Likewise, it seems that the further “left” one goes, the more inclined to consider ONLY diplomacy. If that is the nly option that can be used against millions who are willing to kill to enforce there vision of the world, it is only a matter of time before those nations will rot and die from within. I think that many here are pissed off because the diplomacy tract was not followed as strongly in Iraq, and subsequent poor implementation, and hope that tract will not be used with Iran, with similar results.