McCain

[Rigs11]

Anyone catch him on Meet the Press on Sunday. This guy seems more out of reality than the dipshet we have now.Looks like he knows best

MR. RUSSERT: The Pentagon's Quarterly Report, the director of the CIA, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, all have said that sectarian violence is the problem. In fact, the--General Maples said that al-Qaeda accounts for only a small fraction of the insurgent violence.

SEN. McCAIN: You know the...

MR. RUSSERT: Who's our enemy?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, first of all, General Petraeus, the general on the ground, does not agree with that. Al-Qaeda is exploiting these sectarian differences. They are trying to orchestrate attacks on both Sunni and Shia, but--in order to spark this and increase this sectarian violence that's going on. Al-Qaeda is playing significantly. Now, are there problems with sectarian violence? Of course there is. Is there other problems, such as in Anbar Province where Sunnis are now combatting al-Qaeda? Are al-Qaeda being shoved out of Baghdad into areas outside of Baghdad? Yes. And are there problems in those areas?

Look, this is long and hard and difficult, and I've said it for a long time. And it's no last throes, it's no mission accomplished, it's no few dead-enders. It's long and hard and tough. We are experiencing some successes. Do we have to experience more? Yes. But to do what the Democrats want to do, and that's set a date for withdrawal, even those who opposed the war from the beginning don't think that that would lead to anything but an enormously challenging situation as a result.

MR. RUSSERT: But, senator, the Iraqi parliament, a majority of the Iraqi parliament, has signed a petition asking for a date certain for withdrawal of American troops. If the Iraqi parliament wants it, a majority in the Congress want it...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT: ...then why do you stand there and say, "No, you can't have it"?

SEN. McCAIN: Because it's my job to give my best estimate to the American people, no matter what the political calculations may be, as to what's the best in our nation's national security interest. Young men and women are risking their lives as we speak in, in, in Iraq. And I know that they will be in greater harm's way if we withdraw from Iraq, as we keep debating over and over and over again. And I know what's best, in my mind, in my experience, in my knowledge, in my inspiration, as to what's best for this country. So political calculations such as polls, I understand that if the American people don't continue to support this effort that we will be forced to withdraw. But it's also my obligation to tell the American people and my constituents in Arizona that I represent, what the consequences of failure will be; and I believe they will be catastrophic.

MR. RUSSERT: But the duly elected people's bodies, the U.S. Congress and the Iraqi parliament, say they want a troop withdrawal. That's more than a poll. Isn't that the voice of the people?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, the--as far as the Iraqi parliament is concerned, the Iraqi government obviously doesn't feel that way, their--the representatives in their government. Second of all, there is some, a certain amount of domestic political calculations involved there in what the Iraqi, quote, "parliament" said. The Iraqi parliament has their ability to, to voice their views, and I respect them. And I, as I say, I--I'll repeat again, I understand how democracies work. I saw it in Vietnam. I saw it in Vietnam. And I saw it in Vietnam, the predictions, that everything would be a worker's paradise in, in Vietnam if we left. And thousands were executed and millions went to re-education camps. So I, I believe that, that the consequences of failure, and particularly sitting on the large reserves of oil they have, particularly considering the influence of al-Qaeda is concerned, you will see enormous destabilization in the region, and that's my duty. That's my obligation. It's not my privilege. And political calculations should not enter into any information or position that I take on, on a, on an issue of national security.



MR. RUSSERT: The Iraqi army, over 120 battalions.

SEN. McCAIN: Yep.

MR. RUSSERT: There are only 10 battalions--10! That's 6,000 soldiers...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18573163/page/2/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Can't believe anyone could take that clown seriously - no matter what their politics or party affiliation.

[Bronco Bob]

Giuliani kicked ass in this last debate. I think he has the nomination wrapped up.

[Rohirrim]

I really have no idea what McCain stands for anymore. I think the dirty tricks whooping he took from Bush/Rove has completely deranged the dude. Ever since that time, he's been flopping around like a wind-up monkey.

[RkyMtnThunder]

IMO Ron Paul was the only voice of reason last night.

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by RkyMtnThunder

IMO Ron Paul was the only voice of reason last night.

Losing proposition I'm afraid....dman

[RkyMtnThunder]

Originally Posted by defenseman

Losing proposition I'm afraid....dman

Unfortunately

I see the smear campaign started immediately after the debate when public opinion polls overwhelmingly favored Paul. Some pretty silly ideas about why Paul was so strong in these polls. None of which included the possiblity the public actually liked what he had to say. (figures)

He should just run as the Libertarian he is. No surprise his views are getting distorted and trashed by some of these dittoheads in Washington and the media.

Of course, I am a registered Libertarian myself so I may be a bit biased leaning towards Paul.

But he spoke the truth - our interventionalist foreign policy the past 50 years had come back to haunt us. Blowback is for real, people who disagree are in denial.

And Rudi - NEVER heard of the concept that blowback may have been the motive of 9/11 attack? Thats just ignorant. I want any potential commander in chief to be aware of ALL the angles, not just the ones he supports. And never mind his stand on National ID cards. Guy needs to re-read 1984 again.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Giuliani kicked ass in this last debate. I think he has the nomination wrapped up.

Guliani is a freaking idiot. Ron paul was the only republican i would vote for. He actually explained why we got attacked. Yup why.Of course then Guiliani called his response far fetched and yet kept slathering the old tired crap that only he knows how to protect ameriaca because HE went through 911. Hey Guliani 911 happened on your watch you freaking imbecile.

[Rigs11]

"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East [for years]. I think [Ronald] Reagan was right. We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. Right now, we're building an embassy in Iraq that is bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting."[29] Rudy Giuliani, eager to divert the conservative audience's attention from his earlier stance on the abortion issue,[30] interpreted Paul as implying that America had justified the attacks through its actions and interrupted the proceedings to demand a retraction. Ron Paul responded, "I believe the CIA is correct when it warns us about blowback. We overthrew the Iranian government in 1953 and their taking the hostages was the reaction. This dynamic persists and we ignore it at our risk. They’re not attacking us because we’re rich and free, they’re attacking us because we’re over there."

Wait..you mean they didn't attack us because they hate freedom? Thank you Ron Paul for telling the truth and not being a fear mongering ,"were never at fault", POS like Guliani, hell the 911 commision report backs you up.By the way this poll is from Fox News as voted by viewers.

GOP Debate Text-Vote Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272493,00.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Are you taking notes, clarkster?

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Guliani is a freaking idiot. Ron paul was the only republican i would vote for. He actually explained why we got attacked. Yup why.Of course then Guiliani called his response far fetched and yet kept slathering the old tired crap that only he knows how to protect ameriaca because HE went through 911. Hey Guliani 911 happened on your watch you freaking imbecile.

Not a fan of him, but I dont think you can blame airplanes crashing into buildings on a mayor -- can you?

[Bob]

The thing that seems weird about this race for the Repubs, is that as a conservitive, I dont see any one thus far that really does anything for me. I doubt that I am in the minority either on that. McCain seems too old, and is kindof creepy, Guliani seems like a guy that was annointed by ABC, but dont see him geting any traction outside of NY -- he can string two sentences together, but will the base embrace him. I dont think so. Mitt is also well spoken, Not sure if the Bible belt folks will feel that he represents them and heard something about 24% of folks that wouldnt vote for him because of religous affiliation.

So who else looks good to folks out of that group? Who is Ron Paul? Does he have any $, or the poll numbers to get any real push? For the dems out there, who do you think would provide the best chance for the R's and why?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Maybe it's no accident that the GOP doesn't seem to have a viable candidate for '08.

Maybe the powers that be are already grooming Hillary to be their next puppet.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Originally Posted by Bob

Who is Ron Paul? Does he have any $, or the poll numbers to get any real push? For the dems out there, who do you think would provide the best chance for the R's and why?

Basic info about Ron Paul: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

I am not a democrat, as mentioned before I am a registered Libertarian but I do lean to the left on several issues - essentially anything that threatens the civil liberties of citizens.

IMO, looking at last November it really seemed the American public sent a message to the Republican party that they desire change.

That said, I believe the best chance for the Republican party is to field a candidate that does not spout the same talking points they have been the last 10 years or so.

From what I have seen in these 2 debates, that person is Ron Paul. The only one that sounds different than the pack.

Does he have the $$ or poll numbers? Thats up to the public and grass roots efforts because no, he doesnt have the funding the 'slick willies' of Washington have.

But America is sick and tired of slick willies. And if you really look at it, especially with this new immigration deal thats been met - Republicans and Democrats are essentially merging into one and the same. The partisanship is actually in the public and the politicians hit those respective angles only during election times. Outside of that, they are all the same greed mongers who put the publics wishes 2nd to their own.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by Bob

Not a fan of him, but I dont think you can blame airplanes crashing into buildings on a mayor -- can you?

so we can't blame the president or the mayor for failing? Where does the buck stop?

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

so we can't blame the president or the mayor for failing? Where does the buck stop?

Weird - Rosie clones can blame Bush for the attack, Rush babies can blame Clinton, I start with those that flew the airplanes.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Anyone catch him on Meet the Press on Sunday.. . . . . . ]

Yeah, I watched 'Meet the Press' last Sunday. I refrained from mentioning it on other threads, but now that you mention it . . . .

Hell, McCain never stood up for himself in 2000, then kissed GWB's ass in 2004. I wouldn't vote for the man right now. But there's a long way to go.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East [for years]. I think [Ronald] Reagan was right. We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. Right now, we're building an embassy in Iraq that is bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting."[29] Rudy Giuliani, eager to divert the conservative audience's attention from his earlier stance on the abortion issue,[30] interpreted Paul as implying that America had justified the attacks through its actions and interrupted the proceedings to demand a retraction. Ron Paul responded, "I believe the CIA is correct when it warns us about blowback. We overthrew the Iranian government in 1953 and their taking the hostages was the reaction. This dynamic persists and we ignore it at our risk. They’re not attacking us because we’re rich and free, they’re attacking us because we’re over there."

Wait..you mean they didn't attack us because they hate freedom? Thank you Ron Paul for telling the truth and not being a fear mongering ,"were never at fault", POS like Guliani, hell the 911 commision report backs you up.By the way this poll is from Fox News as voted by viewers.

GOP Debate Text-Vote Results

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272493,00.html

Well, seems to me the bottom line with Paul is withdraw to our own borders. That won't do.

[Bob]

So the 25% came from the Dems watching FOX that night?

[theAPAOps5]

It sucks that Paul is getting murdered in the press now because of what he said about 9/11. Especially when its the truth, alas, that is going to hurt him because the average american doesn't want to hear that some of our own policy spawned the deep hatred that eventually let to this attack. I am a newly registered libertatian as that party just aligns with my views so I would love to see Paul go far but I think he is already dead in the water.

As for McCain, I used to have a lot of respect for the man. Then he started pulling this weird stuff. First he gets abused by the Bushies only to later back them after the election. Then when he makes another run at President he slams them, and his policy is just confusing. He may be just too old and losing it some. That leaves Guilianni and that is not very good. The right are in for an uphill battle.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Guliani is a freaking idiot. Ron paul was the only republican i would vote for. He actually explained why we got attacked. Yup why.Of course then Guiliani called his response far fetched and yet kept slathering the old tired crap that only he knows how to protect ameriaca because HE went through 911. Hey Guliani 911 happened on your watch you freaking imbecile.

Rep times a thousand.

Giuliani should be flogged.



And McCain? Dead Candidate Walking.

McCain would be 80 years old before his second term ends ... no thank you.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

so we can't blame the president or the mayor for failing? Where does the buck stop?

NYC police, ambulance and fire employees - especially the Firefighters - are really speaking up now about how after the 1993 WTC parking structure bombing, Giuliani did nothing - bupkus - to strengthen or update the emergency infrastructure or first-responder communications gear. I heard a guy on Olberemann say that on the day of 9/11, they were using the exact same walkie-talkies that didn't work during the '93 bombing.

Where does the buck stop, indeed.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

NYC police, ambulance and fire employees - especially the Firefighters - are really speaking up now about how after the 1993 WTC parking structure bombing, Giuliani did nothing - bupkus - to strengthen or update the emergency infrastructure or first-responder communications gear. I heard a guy on Olberemann say that on the day of 9/11, they were using the exact same walkie-talkies that didn't work during the '93 bombing.

Where does the buck stop, indeed.

Bingo. Giuliani has always been a self-absorbed wind bag. I have no doubt that in his mind, he's the hero of 911. Ask some of the NYPD and FYPD rank and file and you might get another opinion.