NFL does not have a criminal epidemic - The Orange Mane

Jason in LA · 05-09-2007, 05:26 PM

Well it appears that there is not a criminal epidemic in the NFL, just like I’ve always thought. It’s not a league of thugs and criminals like many of you have made it out to be. Below I have posted a link to an articled from the San Diego Union Tribune. The writer of the article broke down all of the crimes, and compared the NFL to the general public. His findings do not support the argument that the NFL is filled with thugs.

Here is the link to the article.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s22arrest.html

I will give a few quotes for those of you who do not want to read the entire article.

-Contrary to public perception, the arrest rate among NFL players is less than that of the general population.

-The arrest rate for the general population (about one per 21 people) is higher than the NFL's, which has averaged about one incident per 45 players per year since 2000, according to the review. The NFL has been making note of this fact for years, especially after 1998, when authors Jeff Benedict and Don Yaeger came out with a book entitled, “Pros and Cons, The Criminals Who Play in the NFL.”

-The NFL acknowledges it has an image problem because of these incidents, much more so than it has a criminal epidemic.

-The most prevalent charge was driving under the influence, which accounted for almost a third of the arrests. Over half of all incidents came after traffic stops or were vehicle-related, including DUIs and searches that turned up drugs or guns.

-Almost 40 percent (122) were committed by 50 players with multiple arrests, including DUI and other offenses.

-To analysts and those who study crime and race in society, this all adds up to one thing. They say it's a media-amplified microcosm of America.

-“You can say for sure the athletes have a problem, but athletes are not the problem,” said Richard Lapchick, director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida. “They are representative of society where many of these issues are epidemic.”
-They are problems society hasn't solved, let alone the NFL.

-While drunken driving arrests were the most common arrest among NFL players, the arrest rate was below that for males under 30 in the United States, which is roughly 2 percent, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. In the NFL, it's about one DUI arrest per 144 players (less than 1 percent), based on the review.
-Among people ages 22-34 in the United States, DUI and drug-related offenses are the two most common charges, according to the FBI.

-How the media reports the arrests can complicate the problem and feed stereotypes, Lapchick said.

-Take away 50 repeat offenders in the NFL since 2000, and you eliminate almost 40 percent of the incidents.

-“If you look at any given population, the troublemakers tend to be small in number,” said Sheldon Zhang, a sociology professor at San Diego State.

-Recent media attention focused on the lengthy records of Jones and Henry has amplified the issue publicly, much more so than even four years ago, when Carson was arrested for the fourth time since 2000 and hardly drew any media attention (only one arrest led to conviction).

Jason in LA · 05-09-2007, 05:27 PM

A few things.

This board has gone nuts over these players, labeling the NFL a league of thugs. It’s interesting to see that the arrest rate for NFL players is lower than the national average. I guess the United States is a country of thugs.

It looks like the league isn’t anywhere near as bad as some of you guys made it out to be. In fact, there are fewer problems than in the general population. And a good amount of the crimes are the same crimes that the average person gets arrested for.

You guys act like these players are violent, but most of the arrests are from traffic violations, and they are arrests that the everyday man gets.

I am not about to downplay drunk driving. Leonard Little is one of the few players that I hate on a personal level. Actually, I think he’s the only player that I hate. But let’s not act like a DUI is the crime of a bad person. If we were to do that we’d have to label a lot of good people as thugs.

I wonder how many people on this board have had a DUI. I know of one, and I’d say that poster is a very nice person. Everybody would agree with that. Does the DUI make that person a thug? Brian Griese had a DUI. We gave him a lot of crap for his on the field play, and he seemed to be a loner off the field. But is he a thug, or a bad guy? No. Far from it. Hell, he played for free one season because he donated all of his money to charity. How about John Elway? Is he a thug, or a bad guy? In the ESPN Classics show on Elway, it was either him or a friend of his that made reference to the fact that they had been out drinking, and driving, and that the cops let them go. Elway should have been busted. If he had, would any of you have called him a thug? The article stated that the NFL has a lower average of DUIs than people in a similar age group.

How many people here have smoked weed? I’ve seen a thread or two were people here have admitted to it. Are those people thugs? Probably not.

As for the weapons, ESPN did a feature of athletes who carry guns. They featured a white athlete. He was either a baseball or hockey player. The guy said that he carries his gun everywhere he goes and has it sitting on his lap in his car when he drives. In a lot of areas, if not all, it is illegal to have a gun inside your car. From the way I always understood the law a person could have a gun in their trunk but not on them in the car. So is that guy a thug? Is he a bad person? He didn’t seem like one to me.

I have a cousin who carries a gun. She’s in her late 30s, is educated and has a good job. She doesn’t even live in a bad area. But she’s packing heat, and told me that she has other friends he do the same. Are they thugs?

I guess if you play in the NFL and you get a DUI, get caught with weed, or get caught with a gun then you must be a thug.

If you people wanted to be consistent, then you’d have to hate a lot of good people. You may even have to hate yourself. I’m sure that a good amount of us have had a couple drinks and drove home because we felt fine. What if you got pulled over and blew that .09. Would that make you a thug or a bad person?

Like the article stated, the NFL has a bad image, but there is no criminal epidemic like you guys think. The media has overblown a lot of this, and some of you guys just piled on.

It’s time for you guys to wake up and realize that the same issues that are in the NFL are also in your communities. According to the stats, these issues are more of a problem in your communities than in the NFL.

And can you guys stop acting like a large percentage of the NFL is bad. One poster here said it was 20%. Well, we can see that isn’t the case. Last year 2% of the league gets arrested and people went nuts. So 2% makes the other 98% look bad? That doesn’t make any since. And a large percentage of the crimes are by repeat offenders.

A very few bad apples should make the whole lot bad.

Beantown Bronco · 05-09-2007, 05:34 PM

I love arrest statistics.....they really are meaningless when you involve celebrities/sports figures/etc. Seriously....Joe Shmoe doesn't stand a chance of getting a free pass for a DUI or possession of pot 99% of the time. NFL players on the other hand....we don't even hear about it unless they run into the rookie on duty who wants to make a name for himself.

Rock Chalk · 05-09-2007, 05:36 PM

So DUI is OK if you are an NFL player is what you re saying...

Jason in LA · 05-09-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec

So DUI is OK if you are an NFL player is what you re saying...

I never said or implied that in any way. You totally missed the point.

scorpio · 05-09-2007, 05:43 PM

but but but Jason Whitlock said....

rbackfactory80 · 05-09-2007, 05:43 PM

With the recent DWI death in MLB the news is making it out to be a problem among baseball players and now teams are making sure no alcohol is permitted in locker rooms. The news amplifies every problem when this was just a case of one person being careless.

Jason in LA · 05-09-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I love arrest statistics.....they really are meaningless when you involve celebrities/sports figures/etc. Seriously....Joe Shmoe doesn't stand a chance of getting a free pass for a DUI or possession of pot 99% of the time. NFL players on the other hand....we don't even hear about it unless they run into the rookie on duty who wants to make a name for himself.

I'd say that when the average guy gets busted, nobody ever hears about it. But when the NFL, or NBA player gets busted for the same thing, it's all over the news.

GonzoLays · 05-09-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

I never said or implied that in any way. You totally missed the point.

How can someone NOT get the gist of your original post is beyond me.

Alec, how in the hell did you not understand what the first post was about?

Hotrod · 05-09-2007, 05:46 PM

After careful review of those stats I think its clear that if NFL players would simply stop driving the league would be better off.

Beantown Bronco · 05-09-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

I'd say that when the average guy gets busted, nobody ever hears about it. But when the NFL, or NBA player gets busted for the same thing, it's all over the news.

You missed my point. What I'm saying is the celebrity is far less likely to ever GET arrested.

Hotrod · 05-09-2007, 05:48 PM

Honestly that was a very interesting read.

I'd have to say even with those stats the "role model" card is in play here.

GonzoLays · 05-09-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

we don't even hear about it unless they run into the rookie on duty who wants to make a name for himself.

How do you know that?

GonzoLays · 05-09-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

You missed my point. What I'm saying is the celebrity is far less likely to ever GET arrested.

do you really think officer Joe Brown knows who the hell Curome Cox is? I doubt it. If anything, officers are more prone to arrest an athlete so he can have a good story to tell and hear about what he did all over the papers and newscasts. It make him a psuedo-celebrity. "So let me tell you about the time I arrested a denver bronco..."

And besides, officers let people go all the time. It could possibly be that the rate for letting the average citizen go on an offense is much higher than an athlete.

Beantown Bronco · 05-09-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

do you really think officer Joe Brown knows who the hell Curome Cox is?

If he's a Denver-area cop, then yes, without a doubt he does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

If anything, officers are more prone to arrest an athlete so he can have a good story to tell and here about what he did all over the papers and newscasts. It make him a psuedo-celebrity. "So let me tell you about the time I arrested a denver bronco..."

Some may believe that, but if that were the case, then Elway would've been ineligible to play in most of his games, because he'd be in prison.

And ALL of the Broncos have admitted that at the end of the last day of training camp when it was held in Greeley, the players basically pulled a cannon ball run on their way home on the highway. The speeds they admitted to driving on the record would be enough for an arrest. And the cops know about this and simply look the other way. Now if my friends and I decided to do that one day, what would happen? Arrest and loss of license for sure.

BroncsRule · 05-09-2007, 05:58 PM

The initial fact presented in this piece is absurd on it's face:

"-The arrest rate for the general population (about one per 21 people) .."

There are 300,000,000 Americans, ergo 1/21 would equal 14.285 million arrests per year.

Waaaay too high.

Tredici · 05-09-2007, 05:59 PM

-Take away 50 repeat offenders in the NFL since 2000, and you eliminate almost 40 percent of the incidents.

Beantown Bronco · 05-09-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncsRule

The initial fact presented in this piece is absurd on it's face:

"-The arrest rate for the general population (about one per 21 people) .."

There are 300,000,000 Americans, ergo 1/21 would equal 14.285 million arrests per year.

Waaaay too high.

Actually that number is spot on according to the Uniform Crime Report (and it doesn't even include traffic violations, which is scary).

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_29.html

cutthemdown · 05-09-2007, 06:03 PM

I agree with Jason. I've been saying all along that its a handfull of players that are the bad ones. Teams keep them around because they are good players. You don't see scrubs getting arrested and then still being in nfl.

The ray Caruth thing really stained the NFL.

GonzoLays · 05-09-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

If he's a Denver-area cop, then yes, without a doubt he does.

Nope. Only a diehard knows who Curome Cox is. Let's be serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Some may believe that, but if that were the case, then Elway would've been ineligible to play in most of his games, because he'd be in prison.

And ALL of the Broncos have admitted that at the end of the last day of training camp when it was held in Greeley, the players basically pulled a cannon ball run on their way home on the highway. The speeds they admitted to driving on the record would be enough for an arrest. And the cops know about this and simply look the other way. Now if my friends and I decided to do that one day, what would happen? Arrest and loss of license for sure.

Using John Elway as an example is quite unfair considering he was the most popular person in the history of this state.

don't get it twisted, cops love to bust famous people. And why shouldn't they? A curome freaking cox signature isn't going to do **** for them.

Paladin · 05-09-2007, 06:14 PM

........but, but, they got CHARACTER ISSUES. Isn't that different?

Bladerunner · 05-09-2007, 06:23 PM

rep to Jason for doing some research and getting some real facts on the table...I still think the NFL has been rather permissive in its approach to criminal players, but I'm a Marine so everything seems nasty and undisciplined to me...Hopefully the commish can remain on solid legs and address the individuals that are skewing perception so much.

BroncsRule · 05-09-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Actually that number is spot on according to the Uniform Crime Report (and it doesn't even include traffic violations, which is scary).

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_29.html

I stand corrected.

And may I just say - holy crap!!! that's a lotta friggin' arrests!

Bronco_Beerslug · 05-09-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

Well it appears that there is not a criminal epidemic in the NFL, just like I’ve always thought. It’s not a league of thugs and criminals like many of you have made it out to be. Below I have posted a link to an articled from the San Diego Union Tribune. The writer of the article broke down all of the crimes, and compared the NFL to the general public. His findings do not support the argument that the NFL is filled with thugs.
Here is the link to the article.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s22arrest.html
I will give a few quotes for those of you who do not want to read the entire article.
-Contrary to public perception, the arrest rate among NFL players is less than that of the general population.

These numbers show nothing. Now, if you can show numbers with people who earn the same amount of money as NFL players then you will have something but trying to compare them to the general population which includes all of the inner city thugs, criminals, etc... is meaningless.

-Slap- · 05-09-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tredici

-Take away 50 repeat offenders in the NFL since 2000, and you eliminate almost 40 percent of the incidents.

This is the truly meaningful part of the article. The Ray Lewis, Leonard Little and Pacman Jones type thugs, that people like Jason bend over backwards to defend, make the rest of the League look bad.

I know the only way for the author to spin this article was to look at the statistics superficially, but what percentage of the 1 in 21 people in the general population who commit crimes return to high paying jobs after they're arrested? What percentage of them can afford expensive legal representation in the first place? 1 in 21 almost perfectly mirrors the unemployment rate, doesn't it? This not a coincidence.

This article is an excellent example of how easy it is to mislead people with statistics when they're unwilling, or simply not smart enough, to figure out what you're doing to them.

05-09-2007, 05:26 PM	#1
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,254	NFL does not have a criminal epidemic Well it appears that there is not a criminal epidemic in the NFL, just like I’ve always thought. It’s not a league of thugs and criminals like many of you have made it out to be. Below I have posted a link to an articled from the San Diego Union Tribune. The writer of the article broke down all of the crimes, and compared the NFL to the general public. His findings do not support the argument that the NFL is filled with thugs. Here is the link to the article. http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s22arrest.html I will give a few quotes for those of you who do not want to read the entire article. -Contrary to public perception, the arrest rate among NFL players is less than that of the general population. -The arrest rate for the general population (about one per 21 people) is higher than the NFL's, which has averaged about one incident per 45 players per year since 2000, according to the review. The NFL has been making note of this fact for years, especially after 1998, when authors Jeff Benedict and Don Yaeger came out with a book entitled, “Pros and Cons, The Criminals Who Play in the NFL.” -The NFL acknowledges it has an image problem because of these incidents, much more so than it has a criminal epidemic. -The most prevalent charge was driving under the influence, which accounted for almost a third of the arrests. Over half of all incidents came after traffic stops or were vehicle-related, including DUIs and searches that turned up drugs or guns. -Almost 40 percent (122) were committed by 50 players with multiple arrests, including DUI and other offenses. -To analysts and those who study crime and race in society, this all adds up to one thing. They say it's a media-amplified microcosm of America. -“You can say for sure the athletes have a problem, but athletes are not the problem,” said Richard Lapchick, director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida. “They are representative of society where many of these issues are epidemic.” -They are problems society hasn't solved, let alone the NFL. -While drunken driving arrests were the most common arrest among NFL players, the arrest rate was below that for males under 30 in the United States, which is roughly 2 percent, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. In the NFL, it's about one DUI arrest per 144 players (less than 1 percent), based on the review. -Among people ages 22-34 in the United States, DUI and drug-related offenses are the two most common charges, according to the FBI. -How the media reports the arrests can complicate the problem and feed stereotypes, Lapchick said. -Take away 50 repeat offenders in the NFL since 2000, and you eliminate almost 40 percent of the incidents. -“If you look at any given population, the troublemakers tend to be small in number,” said Sheldon Zhang, a sociology professor at San Diego State. -Recent media attention focused on the lengthy records of Jones and Henry has amplified the issue publicly, much more so than even four years ago, when Carson was arrested for the fourth time since 2000 and hardly drew any media attention (only one arrest led to conviction).

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05-09-2007, 05:27 PM	#2
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,254	A few things. This board has gone nuts over these players, labeling the NFL a league of thugs. It’s interesting to see that the arrest rate for NFL players is lower than the national average. I guess the United States is a country of thugs. It looks like the league isn’t anywhere near as bad as some of you guys made it out to be. In fact, there are fewer problems than in the general population. And a good amount of the crimes are the same crimes that the average person gets arrested for. You guys act like these players are violent, but most of the arrests are from traffic violations, and they are arrests that the everyday man gets. I am not about to downplay drunk driving. Leonard Little is one of the few players that I hate on a personal level. Actually, I think he’s the only player that I hate. But let’s not act like a DUI is the crime of a bad person. If we were to do that we’d have to label a lot of good people as thugs. I wonder how many people on this board have had a DUI. I know of one, and I’d say that poster is a very nice person. Everybody would agree with that. Does the DUI make that person a thug? Brian Griese had a DUI. We gave him a lot of crap for his on the field play, and he seemed to be a loner off the field. But is he a thug, or a bad guy? No. Far from it. Hell, he played for free one season because he donated all of his money to charity. How about John Elway? Is he a thug, or a bad guy? In the ESPN Classics show on Elway, it was either him or a friend of his that made reference to the fact that they had been out drinking, and driving, and that the cops let them go. Elway should have been busted. If he had, would any of you have called him a thug? The article stated that the NFL has a lower average of DUIs than people in a similar age group. How many people here have smoked weed? I’ve seen a thread or two were people here have admitted to it. Are those people thugs? Probably not. As for the weapons, ESPN did a feature of athletes who carry guns. They featured a white athlete. He was either a baseball or hockey player. The guy said that he carries his gun everywhere he goes and has it sitting on his lap in his car when he drives. In a lot of areas, if not all, it is illegal to have a gun inside your car. From the way I always understood the law a person could have a gun in their trunk but not on them in the car. So is that guy a thug? Is he a bad person? He didn’t seem like one to me. I have a cousin who carries a gun. She’s in her late 30s, is educated and has a good job. She doesn’t even live in a bad area. But she’s packing heat, and told me that she has other friends he do the same. Are they thugs? I guess if you play in the NFL and you get a DUI, get caught with weed, or get caught with a gun then you must be a thug. If you people wanted to be consistent, then you’d have to hate a lot of good people. You may even have to hate yourself. I’m sure that a good amount of us have had a couple drinks and drove home because we felt fine. What if you got pulled over and blew that .09. Would that make you a thug or a bad person? Like the article stated, the NFL has a bad image, but there is no criminal epidemic like you guys think. The media has overblown a lot of this, and some of you guys just piled on. It’s time for you guys to wake up and realize that the same issues that are in the NFL are also in your communities. According to the stats, these issues are more of a problem in your communities than in the NFL. And can you guys stop acting like a large percentage of the NFL is bad. One poster here said it was 20%. Well, we can see that isn’t the case. Last year 2% of the league gets arrested and people went nuts. So 2% makes the other 98% look bad? That doesn’t make any since. And a large percentage of the crimes are by repeat offenders. A very few bad apples should make the whole lot bad.

05-09-2007, 05:34 PM	#3
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,111 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	I love arrest statistics.....they really are meaningless when you involve celebrities/sports figures/etc. Seriously....Joe Shmoe doesn't stand a chance of getting a free pass for a DUI or possession of pot 99% of the time. NFL players on the other hand....we don't even hear about it unless they run into the rookie on duty who wants to make a name for himself.

05-09-2007, 05:36 PM	#4
Rock Chalk Cheeky Bastards Laus Deo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Backside of the Internet Posts: 29,942 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	So DUI is OK if you are an NFL player is what you re saying...

05-09-2007, 05:43 PM	#6
scorpio Cubicle Pimp Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,499	but but but Jason Whitlock said....

05-09-2007, 05:43 PM	#7
rbackfactory80 Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 4,627	With the recent DWI death in MLB the news is making it out to be a problem among baseball players and now teams are making sure no alcohol is permitted in locker rooms. The news amplifies every problem when this was just a case of one person being careless.

05-09-2007, 05:46 PM	#10
Hotrod Self Appointed Expert aka Dortoh Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 25,136 Adopt-a-Bronco: Miss I	After careful review of those stats I think its clear that if NFL players would simply stop driving the league would be better off.

05-09-2007, 05:48 PM	#12
Hotrod Self Appointed Expert aka Dortoh Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 25,136 Adopt-a-Bronco: Miss I	Honestly that was a very interesting read. I'd have to say even with those stats the "role model" card is in play here.

05-09-2007, 05:58 PM	#16
BroncsRule Perennial Pro-bowler New to the Forum Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 843 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	The initial fact presented in this piece is absurd on it's face: "-The arrest rate for the general population (about one per 21 people) .." There are 300,000,000 Americans, ergo 1/21 would equal 14.285 million arrests per year. Waaaay too high.

05-09-2007, 05:59 PM	#17
Tredici Ring of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 10,010	-Take away 50 repeat offenders in the NFL since 2000, and you eliminate almost 40 percent of the incidents.

05-09-2007, 06:03 PM	#19
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,873	I agree with Jason. I've been saying all along that its a handfull of players that are the bad ones. Teams keep them around because they are good players. You don't see scrubs getting arrested and then still being in nfl. The ray Caruth thing really stained the NFL.

05-09-2007, 06:14 PM	#21
Paladin Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,152	........but, but, they got CHARACTER ISSUES. Isn't that different?

05-09-2007, 06:23 PM	#22
Bladerunner Ring of Famer ...Two weeks from everywhere! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: California Posts: 1,125 Adopt-a-Bronco: Willis McGahee	rep to Jason for doing some research and getting some real facts on the table...I still think the NFL has been rather permissive in its approach to criminal players, but I'm a Marine so everything seems nasty and undisciplined to me...Hopefully the commish can remain on solid legs and address the individuals that are skewing perception so much.