Legwold - Broncos inbox, interesting... - The Orange Mane

DeusExManning · 05-04-2007, 12:43 PM

Q: Explain to me why guys like Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas are bad character guys because they were caught with pot while Calvin Johnson and Amobi Okoye were universally considered good character guys despite also reportedly smoking weed? Is failing a drug test the difference in making you a good or bad person?

A: In the eyes of most NFL personnel people, yes. In this draft, yes.

This was the first draft after the implementation of the toughest discipline policy the league has had. The policy is particularly tough on repeat offenders, and often scouts and, leading up to this draft, personnel directors treated those who had already failed drug tests as potential repeat offenders.

Johnson and Okoye were among those who admitted using marijuana in pre-draft interviews, but had not failed any drug tests and had not been arrested under any drug charge. Both Moss and Thomas had failed formal drug tests, and in Thomas' case, he failed two this past season before also failing to meet some agreed-to guidelines to stay on Florida's football team.

Teams made that distinction and many, despite Thomas' standing as a top 15 player on many of those draft boards, simply took his name down, removing him from consideration.

Before the draft, most scouts and general managers I spoke to considered Johnson and Okoye to be among those who had simply tried marijuana, while they considered those who had failed at least one drug test as those who potentially use marijuana regularly.

That was the distinction for them. Both Moss and Thomas say they won't run into any trouble in Denver -- Thomas went as far as to take weekly drug tests since last November leading up to the draft and made the results available to teams -- but some teams were simply too nervous to take a chance on them.

They feared the new policy, which suspends players quickly and will, at times, impose those suspensions before a player has made it through all of the legal channels in cases of arrest.

Also, organizations can be punished if too many players find too much trouble. So some team owners who may have given the green light in previous years to take a risk or two on draft day, did not this year. They feared potential fines and in extreme cases, the loss of future draft picks.

In the end, because of all this, it will be an all-of-nothing draft for the Broncos. If Thomas and Moss stay true to their word and stay out of trouble, the Broncos have impact players.

If not, the Broncos have traded away important draft picks and used half of their draft selections for players who did not help them.

Dennis Smythe in Highlands Ranch goes big . . .

Q: I noticed one key difference in this year's draft was the propensity to select players from large, established programs (Florida, Texas and Notre Dame). It appears that in years past, the Broncos have often gone with players from smaller schools, starting in 1996 with John Mobley from Kutztown, to 2006 with Brandon Marshall (Central Florida), Dominik Hixon (Akron) and Chris Kuper (North Dakota). Was this a concerted effort to draft from the big schools this year, or simply a function of selecting the best available players?

A: I asked Mike Shanahan about that, and he said it was not something the team had talked about before this draft. He attributed it mostly to the makeup of the board and the team's needs.

However, overall, there were fewer players from smaller programs at the scouting combine this year than in many past years, so in essence there were fewer players from smaller programs with draftable grades.

This year Michael Allan, a tight end from Whitworth, was the only player at the combine from a Division III school.

That said, there are indeed many teams in the league who look at the big-program players as more proven, more ready to deal with the attention, etc., that comes with being an NFL player.

And those teams, when faced with a pick and looking at a board with several players tied with the same grade, will almost always take the one they need who is also from the biggest program.

Their belief is those players had the expectation to win every week in college, and that's what they will bring to an NFL locker room as well. Those players are also used to competing for playing time on a crowded depth chart.

For the Broncos, Ryan Harris, their third-round pick, was a four-year starter at Notre Dame. Tim Crowder, their second-round pick, was a four-year starter at Texas, and Thomas had been a four-year starter at Florida before being kicked off the team.

Those are players who are usually used to competing in practice for playing time and used to doing what they need to do to keep themselves in the lineup. That's attractive for teams.

One of the biggest concerns about rookies, other than how they make the adjustment off the field to living as an adult with a job they have to go to every day, is whether or not they will compete on a daily basis.

Kevin Butler in Longmont is wondering . . .

Q: Could you give us an update on the progress of injured Broncos? I've heard less about Sam Brandon than anyone else, but what about (Nick) Ferguson, Hixon, (Matt) Lepsis, (Cecil) Sapp and (Brandon) Stokley? Is (Adam) Meadows still struggling with nagging injuries?

A: Training camp will tell the true tale, but Shanahan said before the draft that all of the injured players were recovering well enough that the Broncos wouldn't have to adjust their draft plans to account for those players.

Stokley won't be full speed until later in the offseason, but is supposed to be ready by training camp. Brandon, Ferguson and Lepsis are, according to Shanahan, expected to be ready by training camp as well.

All of the players are currently participating in the team's offseason conditioning work at some level.

That said, they were concerned at least some by their depth at tackle and Meadows' hamstring troubles this past season to use a third-round pick on Notre Dame tackle Harris. With Erik Pears' move to right tackle, Harris will already be Lepsis' backup on the left side when he formally arrives for workouts.

And finally Donnie Becker wonders . . .

Q: What are the chances of Denver bringing back Al Wilson if he is not picked up by a other team?

A: First, Wilson has to be confident that medically he can return to the field. He's getting opinions from doctors about his neck and hasn't yet made a decision.

He has seen renowned neck and spine specialist Dr. Robert Watkins in Los Angeles, and as of now, Watkins hasn't cleared Wilson to play.

As far as returning to the Broncos, Wilson and the team have agreed to part ways. The Broncos want to play D.J. Williams at middle linebacker and even if Wilson had returned this season it was expected he was going to lose some playing time on third down anyway.

The Broncos were already looking to play Williams and Ian Gold as the two linebackers in the nickel before Wilson's medical issues surfaced.

There are some rumblings that the Giants would be interested in Wilson. But they would have a hard time explaining that to the league, having already flunked Wilson on a physical.

To sign him later, at a lower price after potentially medically clearing him, would be hard to explain to the league and could result in potential punishment for any team that did it.

That’s it, and thanks for all of the questions this season. We'll be back just before training camp.

Barry Ramey · 05-04-2007, 12:56 PM

I do think it's a key thing that a player has played quite a few years in college and produced. Moss played a lot his last two years and the others the Broncos drafted were starters just about their whole college careers. The players that tend to be busts are the ones that didn't play much in college and left early or didn't do much until their last year. It's even more important for QB's I think. QB's that have played a lot in college tend to do better in the NFL than the ones that had one great year, but didn't have that many starts or playing time and got drafted after that one great year. It's not a 100% thing, but the tendency seems to be there.

Traveler · 05-04-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Ramey

I do think it's a key thing that a player has played quite a few years in college and produced. Moss played a lot his last two years and the others the Broncos drafted were starters just about their whole college careers. The players that tend to be busts are the ones that didn't play much in college and left early or didn't do much until their last year. It's even more important for QB's I think. QB's that have played a lot in college tend to do better in the NFL than the ones that had one great year, but didn't have that many starts or playing time and got drafted after that one great year. It's not a 100% thing, but the tendency seems to be there.

Reading that quote immediately conjures the image of George Foster. Can't explain why.

Denver Crush · 05-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Reading that quote immediately conjures the image of George Foster. Can't explain why.

Weird! I immediately thought the same thing.

Odysseus · 05-04-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Reading that quote immediately conjures the image of George Foster. Can't explain why.

I think Harris is going to turn out better than Foster. Like you pointed out earlier some very interesting questions on the offensive line.

Barry Ramey · 05-04-2007, 01:17 PM

Yep, Foster is a great example of that and I'm sure if we went back, we could find many examples just from the Broncos alone. I mean not to say there aren't busts of guys who played and started a lot in college either, but I know I would worry with the one hit wonder types.

nickademus · 05-04-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiettiger

I think Harris is going to turn out better than Foster. Like you pointed out earlier some very interesting questions on the offensive line.

Does anyone know why Harris's play took a significant drop last season? After his junior year he was a potential high second late first round pick. what happened? From what my contact said (national scout) ND coaches didnt really understand why his level of play had dropped although his playing weight was almost 20 lbs lighter his senior year. any one got some answers?

That One Guy · 05-04-2007, 02:23 PM

I heard he had back surgery.

Barry Ramey · 05-04-2007, 03:48 PM

The weight loss could have been a big reason why the drop off. It's also possible he may have been rated higher than deserved. One look at Notre Dame and they haven't exactly been giving the NFL high quality prospects lately. Quinn drops big in the draft, their starter at RB goes undrafted, none of their starting receivers got drafted, Harris the only OL drafted that I'm aware of, and geez, that defense has been bad for a few years now and minus top prospects there too for the most part.

listopencil · 05-04-2007, 04:12 PM

A couple of things caught my eye:

"Thomas went as far as to take weekly drug tests since last November leading up to the draft and made the results available to teams."

I didn't realise that. Six months of testing is substantial.

"With Erik Pears' move to right tackle, Harris will already be Lepsis' backup on the left side when he formally arrives for workouts."

I hope we can keep both Harris and Meadows backing up Lepsis and Pears. I think we already have good depth in the middle of the O-Line, IIRC. Would we keep nine or ten O-Linemen? I was thinking we would go with eight.

Lestat · 05-04-2007, 04:34 PM

if he lost weight & struggle then it's one of 2 things likely for the decline

the extra mass allowed him to bully opposing players & make up for any faults in his game & when slimmed down he had to rely more on technique

or.....

he was suffering to an injury or possibly recovering from one & that affected his level of play

cutthemdown · 05-04-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

A couple of things caught my eye:

"Thomas went as far as to take weekly drug tests since last November leading up to the draft and made the results available to teams."

I didn't realise that. Six months of testing is substantial.

"With Erik Pears' move to right tackle, Harris will already be Lepsis' backup on the left side when he formally arrives for workouts."

I hope we can keep both Harris and Meadows backing up Lepsis and Pears. I think we already have good depth in the middle of the O-Line, IIRC. Would we keep nine or ten O-Linemen? I was thinking we would go with eight.

I agree that shows he is making a really good effort and is proud of his results. Hopefully he realizes that passing tests, playing football = happiness and fortune.

Odysseus · 05-05-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superceriani

Does anyone know why Harris's play took a significant drop last season? After his junior year he was a potential high second late first round pick. what happened? From what my contact said (national scout) ND coaches didnt really understand why his level of play had dropped although his playing weight was almost 20 lbs lighter his senior year. any one got some answers?

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

x123z · 05-05-2007, 08:08 PM

Problem when you get caught.

GonzoLays · 05-05-2007, 08:36 PM

Jeff Legwold might be the smartest man in the world.

05-04-2007, 12:43 PM	#1
DeusExManning Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County Posts: 1,336	Legwold - Broncos inbox, interesting... Q: Explain to me why guys like Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas are bad character guys because they were caught with pot while Calvin Johnson and Amobi Okoye were universally considered good character guys despite also reportedly smoking weed? Is failing a drug test the difference in making you a good or bad person? A: In the eyes of most NFL personnel people, yes. In this draft, yes. This was the first draft after the implementation of the toughest discipline policy the league has had. The policy is particularly tough on repeat offenders, and often scouts and, leading up to this draft, personnel directors treated those who had already failed drug tests as potential repeat offenders. Johnson and Okoye were among those who admitted using marijuana in pre-draft interviews, but had not failed any drug tests and had not been arrested under any drug charge. Both Moss and Thomas had failed formal drug tests, and in Thomas' case, he failed two this past season before also failing to meet some agreed-to guidelines to stay on Florida's football team. Teams made that distinction and many, despite Thomas' standing as a top 15 player on many of those draft boards, simply took his name down, removing him from consideration. Before the draft, most scouts and general managers I spoke to considered Johnson and Okoye to be among those who had simply tried marijuana, while they considered those who had failed at least one drug test as those who potentially use marijuana regularly. That was the distinction for them. Both Moss and Thomas say they won't run into any trouble in Denver -- Thomas went as far as to take weekly drug tests since last November leading up to the draft and made the results available to teams -- but some teams were simply too nervous to take a chance on them. They feared the new policy, which suspends players quickly and will, at times, impose those suspensions before a player has made it through all of the legal channels in cases of arrest. Also, organizations can be punished if too many players find too much trouble. So some team owners who may have given the green light in previous years to take a risk or two on draft day, did not this year. They feared potential fines and in extreme cases, the loss of future draft picks. In the end, because of all this, it will be an all-of-nothing draft for the Broncos. If Thomas and Moss stay true to their word and stay out of trouble, the Broncos have impact players. If not, the Broncos have traded away important draft picks and used half of their draft selections for players who did not help them. Dennis Smythe in Highlands Ranch goes big . . . Q: I noticed one key difference in this year's draft was the propensity to select players from large, established programs (Florida, Texas and Notre Dame). It appears that in years past, the Broncos have often gone with players from smaller schools, starting in 1996 with John Mobley from Kutztown, to 2006 with Brandon Marshall (Central Florida), Dominik Hixon (Akron) and Chris Kuper (North Dakota). Was this a concerted effort to draft from the big schools this year, or simply a function of selecting the best available players? A: I asked Mike Shanahan about that, and he said it was not something the team had talked about before this draft. He attributed it mostly to the makeup of the board and the team's needs. However, overall, there were fewer players from smaller programs at the scouting combine this year than in many past years, so in essence there were fewer players from smaller programs with draftable grades. This year Michael Allan, a tight end from Whitworth, was the only player at the combine from a Division III school. That said, there are indeed many teams in the league who look at the big-program players as more proven, more ready to deal with the attention, etc., that comes with being an NFL player. And those teams, when faced with a pick and looking at a board with several players tied with the same grade, will almost always take the one they need who is also from the biggest program. Their belief is those players had the expectation to win every week in college, and that's what they will bring to an NFL locker room as well. Those players are also used to competing for playing time on a crowded depth chart. For the Broncos, Ryan Harris, their third-round pick, was a four-year starter at Notre Dame. Tim Crowder, their second-round pick, was a four-year starter at Texas, and Thomas had been a four-year starter at Florida before being kicked off the team. Those are players who are usually used to competing in practice for playing time and used to doing what they need to do to keep themselves in the lineup. That's attractive for teams. One of the biggest concerns about rookies, other than how they make the adjustment off the field to living as an adult with a job they have to go to every day, is whether or not they will compete on a daily basis. Kevin Butler in Longmont is wondering . . . Q: Could you give us an update on the progress of injured Broncos? I've heard less about Sam Brandon than anyone else, but what about (Nick) Ferguson, Hixon, (Matt) Lepsis, (Cecil) Sapp and (Brandon) Stokley? Is (Adam) Meadows still struggling with nagging injuries? A: Training camp will tell the true tale, but Shanahan said before the draft that all of the injured players were recovering well enough that the Broncos wouldn't have to adjust their draft plans to account for those players. Stokley won't be full speed until later in the offseason, but is supposed to be ready by training camp. Brandon, Ferguson and Lepsis are, according to Shanahan, expected to be ready by training camp as well. All of the players are currently participating in the team's offseason conditioning work at some level. That said, they were concerned at least some by their depth at tackle and Meadows' hamstring troubles this past season to use a third-round pick on Notre Dame tackle Harris. With Erik Pears' move to right tackle, Harris will already be Lepsis' backup on the left side when he formally arrives for workouts. And finally Donnie Becker wonders . . . Q: What are the chances of Denver bringing back Al Wilson if he is not picked up by a other team? A: First, Wilson has to be confident that medically he can return to the field. He's getting opinions from doctors about his neck and hasn't yet made a decision. He has seen renowned neck and spine specialist Dr. Robert Watkins in Los Angeles, and as of now, Watkins hasn't cleared Wilson to play. As far as returning to the Broncos, Wilson and the team have agreed to part ways. The Broncos want to play D.J. Williams at middle linebacker and even if Wilson had returned this season it was expected he was going to lose some playing time on third down anyway. The Broncos were already looking to play Williams and Ian Gold as the two linebackers in the nickel before Wilson's medical issues surfaced. There are some rumblings that the Giants would be interested in Wilson. But they would have a hard time explaining that to the league, having already flunked Wilson on a physical. To sign him later, at a lower price after potentially medically clearing him, would be hard to explain to the league and could result in potential punishment for any team that did it. That’s it, and thanks for all of the questions this season. We'll be back just before training camp.

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05-04-2007, 12:56 PM	#2
Barry Ramey Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,700	I do think it's a key thing that a player has played quite a few years in college and produced. Moss played a lot his last two years and the others the Broncos drafted were starters just about their whole college careers. The players that tend to be busts are the ones that didn't play much in college and left early or didn't do much until their last year. It's even more important for QB's I think. QB's that have played a lot in college tend to do better in the NFL than the ones that had one great year, but didn't have that many starts or playing time and got drafted after that one great year. It's not a 100% thing, but the tendency seems to be there.

05-04-2007, 01:17 PM	#6
Barry Ramey Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,700	Yep, Foster is a great example of that and I'm sure if we went back, we could find many examples just from the Broncos alone. I mean not to say there aren't busts of guys who played and started a lot in college either, but I know I would worry with the one hit wonder types.

05-04-2007, 02:23 PM	#8
That One Guy Producer of Nonsense Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sun and Beachville Posts: 14,042 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I heard he had back surgery.

05-04-2007, 03:48 PM	#9
Barry Ramey Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,700	The weight loss could have been a big reason why the drop off. It's also possible he may have been rated higher than deserved. One look at Notre Dame and they haven't exactly been giving the NFL high quality prospects lately. Quinn drops big in the draft, their starter at RB goes undrafted, none of their starting receivers got drafted, Harris the only OL drafted that I'm aware of, and geez, that defense has been bad for a few years now and minus top prospects there too for the most part.

05-04-2007, 04:12 PM	#10
listopencil [sarcasm]text[/sarcasm] BOOM! Winner. Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The People's Republic Of California Posts: 8,580 Adopt-a-Bronco: Broncos FO	A couple of things caught my eye: "Thomas went as far as to take weekly drug tests since last November leading up to the draft and made the results available to teams." I didn't realise that. Six months of testing is substantial. "With Erik Pears' move to right tackle, Harris will already be Lepsis' backup on the left side when he formally arrives for workouts." I hope we can keep both Harris and Meadows backing up Lepsis and Pears. I think we already have good depth in the middle of the O-Line, IIRC. Would we keep nine or ten O-Linemen? I was thinking we would go with eight.

05-04-2007, 04:34 PM	#11
Lestat Oreo Lucian Rockefeller The New Age Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 5,166	if he lost weight & struggle then it's one of 2 things likely for the decline the extra mass allowed him to bully opposing players & make up for any faults in his game & when slimmed down he had to rely more on technique or..... he was suffering to an injury or possibly recovering from one & that affected his level of play

05-05-2007, 08:08 PM	#14
x123z old Fan old fan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 254	Problem when you get caught.

05-05-2007, 08:36 PM	#15
GonzoLays Five Tool Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,650 Adopt-a-Bronco: #3 DJ	Jeff Legwold might be the smartest man in the world.