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06-29-2007, 06:13 PM
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#351 | |
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Old School Orange
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Anywhere, CO.
Posts: 8,642
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Quote:
theyre legal in douglas county. how many pitbull attacks (forget the fact that many are misreported) have you heard of there? theyre legal in boulder. how many attacks there? nice try |
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06-29-2007, 06:23 PM
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#352 |
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Old School Orange
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Anywhere, CO.
Posts: 8,642
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mosca,
please also keep in mind a couple things. 1) in those studies, they admit to having misleading information as "pitbull" is defined as any pitbull TYPE breed, which includes amtaffs, staffordshire terriers, APBT's (my dogs, though one is mixed with ridgeback), bull terriers, etc., and 2) of all the pitbull attacks that resulted in death, not ONE was found to have come from a normal loving home and "snapped" as many people say theyre prone to do. no, i wont give up my dogs because of bad legislation and bad education, and i wouldnt expect anyone else to either. swift and severe punishments to the human offenders would effectively stop this problem, and it would likely stop it in a hurry. its not a "feel good" (good for the blind masses anyway) bandaid like breed specific legislation. its a real solution. |
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06-29-2007, 06:23 PM
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#353 | |
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Ring of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,820
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06-29-2007, 06:24 PM
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#354 |
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Old School Orange
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Anywhere, CO.
Posts: 8,642
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ps- douglas county law defines a dangerous dog correctly IMO. their explanation is obviously a bit wordy, but essentially it just says that a dangerous animal is to be determined strictly by the actions and not by the breed.
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06-29-2007, 06:26 PM
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#355 | |||||
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Angling in the Deep
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
Posts: 24,281
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06-29-2007, 06:31 PM
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#356 | |
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Old School Orange
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Anywhere, CO.
Posts: 8,642
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Quote:
while MY family doesnt need the education or the help in training, many others do, and still more will be deterred from owning the breed (the people that SHOULD be deterred) because of the stricter guidelines. i'd be annoyed at having to do that since i know my neighbors shepherd or rot mix is MUCH more aggressive (admittedly) than my pits could ever be, but i'd do it if it would help get these dogs in good homes and/or stop people who will do nothing but ignore the animal from adopting it in the 1st place. that said, thats just a bandaid also. the real solution is to define a vicious animal by its actions and not its breed, and then to consider a "vicious" animal a deadly weapon and punish the humans that abuse and neglect these animals and then are careless around others. |
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06-29-2007, 06:32 PM
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#357 | |
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Lurker
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,071
Adopt-a-Bronco: Current D-line |
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06-29-2007, 06:36 PM
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#358 | |
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Old School Orange
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Anywhere, CO.
Posts: 8,642
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"at least one" okay, so we have one before, and none after. think that might just be coincidence? unbelievable. |
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06-29-2007, 06:44 PM
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#359 | |
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Angling in the Deep
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
Posts: 24,281
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This story is more what I'm talking about (communities not being able to control the situation). ------------------------------------------------------ Pit bull attack revives enforcement issues By Lynn Anderson Sun reporter Originally published June 27, 2007 Neighbors often saw Ruby Pulley walking in her East Baltimore neighborhood, even lingering to eat berries from a mulberry tree. And it was there that she was mauled by two pit bulls Monday, according to witnesses who spoke with The Sun yesterday. "They were attacking her like she was a piece of steak," said Lakisha Barnes, 30, a cousin of Pulley's whose backyard faces the yard where the dogs were kept. Pulley, 53, of the 1000 block of Billie Holiday Court, was listed in fair condition yesterday after surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital, a spokesman said. The attack follows recent debate at City Hall over the number of animal enforcement officers needed to control animal breeding and prevent fights and maulings in Baltimore. A 2000 evaluation by the Humane Society of the United States found that the city needed 41 full-time officers, including at least 28 on the street, to handle calls. Baltimore has 11 animal enforcement officers. Officials are rushing to fill two vacancies as well as two new positions that will be created July 1 with the start of the new fiscal year. When those positions are filled, the city will have 15 officers, less than half the recommended number. CONT. |
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06-29-2007, 07:31 PM
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#360 | |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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06-29-2007, 08:24 PM
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#361 | |
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grand pubah
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,950
Adopt-a-Bronco: Bubby Brister |
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Thank you for the reply. |
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06-30-2007, 12:27 PM
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#362 | |
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Lurker
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,071
Adopt-a-Bronco: Current D-line |
Quote:
A dog is barking, and the neighbors call animal control. AC responds, finds a young, seemingly well cared for Pit in an enclosed backyard, but the gate to the fenced yard is open. Technically this makes it a dog at large call, and animal control is required to take the animal. Because it is a pit there are restrictions on releasing the animal. The owner comes to the shelter to pick the dog up, and despite the fact that he is doing everything right, rabies vaccinations taken care of, dog registered, animal in good condition and even well tempered, because it is a pit he can't get the dog. This is a good dog, with a good owner, in a county where there isn't even a fullout ban, and he can't get his dog. So here we have a guy whose dog is at the pound because his 12 year old son let the dog outside and forget to bring it back in before he left for school. The owner was a 6'4"ish 270 lb monster, probably could have helped our d-line. He did exactly what I would have done. He left the shelter, and about 2 hours later came back, walked straight to the kennel, pulled a pair of bolt cutters from out of his jacket, snipped the lock and walked out with his dog trotting behind him smiling. None of the minimum wage shelter employees seemed inclined to stop him considering his size, the fact that he had a pit trailing behind him, and the fact that he was a good owner. The best part of the story is that Animal control tried to prosecute him for theft. The judge dismissed the case saying that he couldn't be prosecuted for theft when the only thing he took was his own dog, which was his property to begin with. Moral of the story is that even in a county without a full ban these are the kind of things you see. With a full on ban it would be worse. Keep it in mind. |
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06-30-2007, 01:21 PM
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#363 | |||
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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We should celebrate him. I really don't think our society celebrates violent bullies quite enough. Quote:
1. He left a 12 year old to handle a Pit Bull. (We saw how that worked out in Thursdays "attack of the day." 2. He leaves his dog in the back yard. (A classic recipe for dog aggression.) 3. He owns more than one Pit Bull. (Not an intelligent decision for most people.) 4. His back gate was unsecured. (If you have a ****ing Pit Bull, Rottie, GS, etc... you'd better have that area secured like a prison, because those are powerful, athletic dogs and they WILL get out.) |
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06-30-2007, 01:31 PM
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#364 |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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Well, looks like the Friday "Attack of the Day" ended tragically...
Pit bull kills woman, injures owner during Deltona attack A pit bull so docile it shared a bed with its owners viciously attacked and killed a 63-year-old woman Friday, almost tearing off the thumb of one of its owners as she tried to get the dog off her sister. It wasn't until a deputy sheriff shot the dog with a stun gun that it released its grip on the victim. By that time, it has almost pulled off the woman's scalp and bitten her severely about the face. Mary J. Bernal died at Halifax Medical Center in Daytona Beach, where she was airlifted after the 9 a.m. attack in the backyard of her sister's home on Roble Lane. "The dog wouldn't turn my wife loose," Rudy Bernal said. "She had bites all over her face." The first officer to arrive, a Volusia County deputy sheriff, reached over the fence and shot the dog with a Taser, Bernal said. Everything had been fine Friday morning, until Mary Bernal went into the backyard to pick up the couple's pet dachshund, Bernal said. That's when the pit bull attacked, he said. Estela Macias, who tried to get the dog away from her sister, was in stable condition Friday at Central Florida Regional Hospital in Sanford. "My sister-in-law is dead," said a distraught Eliasar Macias as he wiped away tears. "I don't know what happened." His dog, named Tas, was like a member of the family, Macias said. "It's a good dog," he said. "This morning I put him in bed with my wife. He always slept with us." |
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06-30-2007, 01:39 PM
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#365 |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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And once again... a neighbor with a firearm saves someone from a Pit bull attack...
http://newsok.com/article/3073405 MIDWEST CITY — A meter reader was attacked and seriously injured by a pit bull terrier Friday, Police Chief Brandon Clabes said. A neighbor who heard the man scream killed the dog with a shotgun, Clabes said. Jason Fish, 25, a meter reader for Oklahoma Gas and Electric Co., was working when he was attacked about 10:20 a.m., Clabes said. He said Fish hopped the fence at 214 E Jacobs and was approached by a gentle dog. As he worked, a second dog attacked him, the police chief said. Fish was taken to a local hospital with serious injuries, Clabes said. He said the neighbor who came to Fish's rescue will not be cited. "We're grateful for his action because he prevented the meter reader from being injured more than he already was,” Clabes said. The dog's owner, Terry Almon, was cited for harboring a vicious animal, the police chief said. |
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06-30-2007, 04:09 PM
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#366 | |
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grand pubah
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,950
Adopt-a-Bronco: Bubby Brister |
Quote:
"It's a slippery slope," said Gary Gibson, a canine behavioural expert. "Once you ban one breed, then the next breed becomes the issue, then another becomes the issue." Ontario announces plan to ban pit bulls Last edited by mosca; 06-30-2007 at 04:12 PM.. |
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06-30-2007, 04:55 PM
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#367 | |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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Quote:
Your average GS or Rott wasn't bred to fight to the DEATH, as several Terrier breeds were. Hence, while an abused dog of any breed will have a propensity to distrust people and eventually bite... even a large dog like a Great Dane doesn't have it in his blood to want to "finish the job" the way a PB does. Get it? This is a breed-specific TRAIT. Most other breeds either never had the trait, or had it bred out of them. It's the reason you hear about so many seemingly "nice" PBs killing people, just as it happened yesterday. They have a switch that can be flipped. An Irish Setter does not. Slippery slope arguments are almost always garbage, but in this case... it's particularly inaccurate. Plus, if there DOES turn out to be a breed that becomes as troublesome as PBs have become, then sure... we may have to deal with them, as well. Dogs are not a right, folks. They're a privilege... one that our society is proving more and more we can't handle. |
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06-30-2007, 05:00 PM
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#368 |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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Great stuff. This is exactly what needs to happen...
Ontario announces plan to ban pit bulls Updated Sat. Oct. 16 2004 6:56 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Calling pit bulls "inherently dangerous animals" that should not be walking the streets, Ontario's Attorney General Michael Bryant has announced a plan to rid his province of the dogs. "We are banning pit bulls in the province of Ontario," Bryant told a news conference Friday. "I am convinced that pit bulls are ticking time bombs. I am convinced that they are inherently dangerous animals." Bryant will introduce legislation that, if passed, would prevent anyone from buying or bringing pit bulls into Ontario. Current pit bull owners wouldn't have to hand over their dogs, but they would face restrictions, including: using leashes and muzzles on pit bulls in public places mandatory neutering and spaying of existing pit bulls fines of up to $10,000 for owners of pit bulls that attack or harm someone. That doubles the current fine under the province's Dog Owners' Liability Act jail sentences of up to six months for convictions of irresponsible dog ownership As well, the courts will be given the right to put "menacing" dogs down, "so that we get to them before they attack," Bryant said. And animal control officials and police will be allowed to obtain a warrant to enter premises where a dangerous dog has been reported. Bryant has been holding consultations with victims of pit bull attacks, as well as pit bull owners, and police, following a series of attacks in Ontario. He says he received thousands of emails from people on the issue -- and the majority have been urging him to ban the dogs. Bryant says that "for every family that tells me that their pit bull is a p***Ycat," there are families who thought their dogs were safe, only to find their dogs attacked strangers and cause serioius or life-threatening injuries. "Enough is enough. We cannot have these animals walking the streets, the fields, or the family rooms of Ontario." Postal worker Darlene Wagner supports the ban. She lost an ear after being attacked by a pit bull while she was delivering mail. "I'm happy this is happening," she says. "It's been a long time coming. It will make me feel safer out on the streets when I'm out there and for everybody else too." Toronto mayor David Miller and Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino also both support the ban. "This problem is not exclusive to any single municipality, it is a province-wide issue and therefore the best solution is a province-wide strategy to keep Ontarians safe from dangerous dogs," Miller said in a statement. Liz White of the animal protection group Animal Alliance of Canada is adamantly against the ban. She believes that pit bulls can make wonderful family pets and doesn't believe they are naturally dangerous. "I think that is absolutely not the case," she told Canada AM Friday. "Look at the German shepherd. It can be made into an attack dog, a police dog, a seeing eye dog, a companion animal -- all in one breed. The same as for any dog. It all depends on how you train it and how you care for it. "I think that Michael Bryant is going to cause the deaths of many, many animals that are absolutely wonderful," White adds. "And I hope he goes down to the shelter and sticks the needle in the six-month old pit bull puppy that has done nothing to anybody but that is going to die because of his legislation." If the bill is passed, Ontario would become the first province to specifically target the breed. Many municipalities across the country have chosen to either ban pit bulls or enact strict restrictions, such as muzzling. Windsor, Ont. brought in new rules just last month. After the city of Kitchener banned pit bulls and enacted fines of up to $5,000, dog attacks have dropped dramatically in the Kitchener-Waterloo area. However, Winnipeg enacted a similar ban and found that attacks by Rottweilers jumped after the pit bull ban came in. Saskatchewan has been the only province to pass "dangerous-dog" legislation with penalties that include fines of up to $10,000 or six months in jail or both. "It's a slippery slope," said Gary Gibson, a canine behavioural expert. "Once you ban one breed, then the next breed becomes the issue, then another becomes the issue." White doesn't think the bans in Kitchener and other place will last long. She says the problem is that "pit bull" is not a breed, but an umbrella term for American Pit Bull terriers, American Staffordshires, Staffordshire Bull terriers, or any mix involving those breeds. "In the U.S., where they've had a much longer history of banning specific breeds of animals, there have been court challenges and the legislation has fallen because they can't actually define what a pit bull is. There are just so many variations." The Canada Safety Council says Canada has no national data on dog-related deaths and injuries, or which breeds cause the most harm. |
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06-30-2007, 05:01 PM
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#369 |
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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"And I hope he goes down to the shelter and sticks the needle in the six-month old pit bull puppy that has done nothing to anybody but that is going to die because of his legislation."
Yea, how about we just don't breed the puppy? Amazing how the common sense just flees people's arguments. |
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06-30-2007, 05:08 PM
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#370 | |
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lets go partner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood,Colo
Posts: 41,221
Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard |
Quote:
Iam sure in alot of cases folks have well mannered pits but the fact remains backed by numerous stories printed weekly the pit has a trait (breed into it) by humans. Not the dogs fault but it's a problem that has to be addressed and it is never popular as we can all see. I lived next to 3 pits that were gental as lambs butttttttt one of them put it's head through my basement window trying to get my cat and also chasing people that walked by and one that i just didn't trust (they got rid of that one) |
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06-30-2007, 05:12 PM
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#371 |
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Drama and Mediocrity
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Newark, NJ
Posts: 5,989
Adopt-a-Bronco: DJ |
Popps,
Still no answer to my question. These dogs are described as "pitbulls" but they could be mutts with several different backgrounds. It's just easier to write pitbull into the article and put it up in the stat sheet And as for common sense, I think there has been plenty of "common sense" on both sides of this argument...maybe the way you read people's arguments is a bit askew |
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06-30-2007, 05:58 PM
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#372 | ||
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TEAM FIRST.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,785
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Quote:
Yes, there are mixes. If you stop breeding PBs... then we stop the mixes, too... right? At least a large portion of them. As for the attacks, they're almost always accompanied by pictures, and I can't recall a time I saw one that clearly wasn't a PB, or predominantly PB. As for the grey areas, we'd simply train someone in AC to diagnose which dogs are which. Quote:
Otherwise, I'm simply deflecting what I consider to be poor arguments... the idea that because it might be a little difficult, we shouldn't do it. I don't buy that. |
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06-30-2007, 06:01 PM
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#373 | |
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grand pubah
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,950
Adopt-a-Bronco: Bubby Brister |
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06-30-2007, 06:27 PM
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#374 |
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lets go partner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood,Colo
Posts: 41,221
Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard |
In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.
From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences. http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%...tatistics.html |
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06-30-2007, 06:38 PM
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#375 |
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lets go partner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood,Colo
Posts: 41,221
Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard |
Iam going to guess owners had alot to do with the attacks do too improper containment and shear stupidity just based on the fact of who the owners are and why they got them in the first place. Most have no clue on how to handle specific breeds and which situations they should never be allowed in.
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