Expert doubts honeybee/cellphone theory

[Kaylore]

Honey Bee - Cell Phone Study is Questionable at Best
News Type: Opinion — Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:17 AM E

This is a good read. The guy knows what he's talking about.

http://forager.newsvine.com/_news/20...onable-at-best

What follows is a review by a very knowledgable beekeeper of the study behind the recent honeybee cellphone news story which ran in the UK last weekend.

To be considerate of the author's privacy I have not listed his name. To be clear this information was provided to me and is not "my" words, I'm just posting this information as I thought it was of interest and it also backs up my recent comments about crazy claims being made in the media concerning causes of the honeybee losses in USA.

When e-mailed, Prof Hermann Stever, one of the researchers
involved in the studies cited by the press articles about
"cell phones and bees", such as:
http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle2449968.ece
replied as follows:

> "First of all I have to clear up that our research is > specifically not related on the massive losses of bees > around the world lately (often called "CCD"). We study > the influence of electromagnetic fields (especially of > DECT-mobile phone) on the learning ability of bees. > So we can not explain the CCD-phenomenon itself. > Attached to this email you find a contribution concerning > our pilot-study in 2005 published in the paper "ACTA SYSTEMICA > - IIAS International Journal" (Vol. VI, No. 1, pp. 1-6). > Because of many inquiries, a contribution concerning our > follow up-study in 2006 today is published in English on > our website http://agbi.uni-landau.de/materialien.htm.

I've glanced at the preprints of the papers they have produced, and I was thoroughly unimpressed, both with the basic techniques employed, and with startling lack of understanding of "basic bee behavior and biology" evinced by the methodology and the interpretation of the "data".

I'd submit that no actual "data" was gathered at all, due
to basic and massive mistakes in experiment design, as
follows:

In one paper:
http://agbi.uni-landau.de/material_d..._IAAS_2007.pdf
they compared return times for bees that had been trapped exiting the hive, gassed with CO2, marked, and then released 500 meters away from the hive.

Problem is, they may have been trapping experienced foragers in
some cases, and bees on their first orientation flight in others.
They also apparently had no idea that a forager, trapped upon
exiting the hive and then released, has no interest in returning directly to the hive, but instead, will still go out and forage,
even after being trapped, detained, gassed, marked, and released. In this context, measuring "return time" is so utterly meaningless that it can be considered a random number.

I lead workshops on bee-lining here and there, and if weather is poor or time available is short, we will capture bees exiting a hive's entrance reducer to "pre-load" bee-lining boxes for the workshop participants to save them the trouble of capturing bees
from flower patches. Even though the bees are left in the feeding chamber long enough for them all to "tank up" with nectar, some bees, upon release, will do the sort of hovering flight one sees at a hive
entrance, orienting to the bee-lining box, rather than a hive
entrance. These are clearly bees that were captured "in error",
bees with perhaps no flight experience at all, certainly bees
without a firm handle on the hive's location or the local terrain.
These bees are certain to have slim chances of returning to their
hive in any reasonable time period, if they return at all.

If I were to capture and then release bees without providing them
with "nectar" and time to "tank up", bees with less than a "full
tank" are certain to continue foraging, rather than return directly
to the hive, which would makes the "winners" of the contest the bees that are foraging on the closest patch of blooms currently providing some groceries.

In the other paper:
http://agbi.uni-landau.de/material_d.../IAAS_2006.pdf
We find the statement (confession!):

"In the course of the experiment three exposed colonies and one non-exposed colony broke down. To compute the average weight of the honeycombs over all analyzed colonies their weight was used at the time of the breakdown.
While the weight of the frames for the honeycombs was similar at the beginning, the average total weights of the honeycombs,
which were built by non-exposed bees, came to 1326 g while
the average honeycomb weight of the exposed bees amount 1045 g. The difference of 281 g corresponds to 21.1%."

So, the results were skewed by using data from colonies that
were on the verge of "break down" (from varroa infestation, one assumes), and of 16 total colonies, only one of the eight
"non-exposed" hives "broke down", while three of the eight
"exposed" hives "broke down".

It should be no wonder at all that when 3 of 8 colonies in
one group of hives is suffering from something that causes
them to "break down", that group of colonies will have a lower colony weight gain. When the other group has only
one hive "break down", it is highly likely to have a much
better set of "weight gain" numbers.

Apparently, the peer review group selected for the "International Institute for Advanced Studies in Systems Research and Cybernetics" (where these papers have been either submitted or published)
does not include beekeepers, entomologists, or even intelligent 12-year olds who have read a few books about bees.

To summarize, the press reporting was pure speculation by reporters who neglected to ask even basic questions of the
authors of the cited papers, and was based upon "science" that would not even get past the editor of one's local beekeeper association newsletter.

[crush17]

They found the cause of the die off, it's a certain type of mite that's been attaching itself to the bees and killing them.

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Entomology/ent...ruct/ef608.htm

cell phones my a$$

[Kaylore]

Thanks Crush. Mystery solved.

[rugbythug]

Sorry Crush that is different Varroa Mites have been around since the late 90's they are still constantly a problem and keep evolving past the ways we used to kill them. However they are not the cause of Colony Collapse disorder. I was a beekeeper from 1990-1996. I sold the business though. Too much Work, very hot and boring. I prefer to work with my mind.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by rugbythug

Sorry Crush that is different Varroa Mites have been around since the late 90's they are still constantly a problem and keep evolving past the ways we used to kill them. However they are not the cause of Colony Collapse disorder. I was a beekeeper from 1990-1996. I sold the business though. Too much Work, very hot and boring. I prefer to work with my mind.

I worked in the bee business when I was in high school. I loved it. I got stung over 39 times in one yard. You could just smell the bee venom on me which just made the bees more excited. I had tears coming down my face. I didn't like that part of the job.

I doubt this is mites. Not any type of mite we have seen before. Mites kill bees in the hive. From what I have read these bees are not dieing in the hive they are vanishing. There are billions of bees MISSING. They are leaving the hive and not coming back. That is not mites. That is why the cell phone theory was floated because maybe it was interfering with their navigation back to the hive. I don't know what the problem is but this is serious way more than people here realize.

[Paladin]

I tis serious. I have an apple tree in teh back yard all aflowered, and there are no bees out therre doing their thing..... The squirrels are gonna be pi$$ed because there will be no apples for them to plunder.


AAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Fricking squirrels!

[alkemical]

Are GM Crops Killing Bees?

A mysterious decimation of bee populations has German beekeepers worried, while a similar phenomenon in the United States is gradually assuming catastrophic proportions. The consequences for agriculture and the economy could be enormous.




Taiwan stung by millions of missing bees

AIPEI (Reuters) - Taiwan's bee farmers are feeling the sting of lost business and possible crop danger after millions of the honey-making, plant-pollinating insects vanished during volatile weather, media and experts said on Thursday.

[rugbythug]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I worked in the bee business when I was in high school. I loved it. I got stung over 39 times in one yard. You could just smell the bee venom on me which just made the bees more excited. I had tears coming down my face. I didn't like that part of the job.

Where did you work? My colonies were in Northern Wyoming. I had around 600 when I sold out.

[scorpio]

The bees were out in force all over Ft. Collins this weekend, more than I think I've ever seen in a single day. Then I spent all day in Boulder today and didn't see a single one. Go figure.

[watermock]

Honey bees are important pollinators in agricultural, urban, and natural landscapes.
Bees pollinate about 130 fruit, vegetable, nut, ornamental, and fiber crops in the US contributing about $15 billion annually through improved crop yield and product quality.
Hundreds of millions of dollars are additionally generated through the sale of hive products such as honey, wax, pollen, propolis, royal jelly, and venom.

They have "top minds" on it. Ugg.

[ant1999e]

Global warming?

[alkemical]

http://www.non-gm-farmers.com/news_details.asp?ID=2219

GM crop taints honey two miles away, test reveals

[Tredici]

I hadn't heard of the mite but I did hear a story a couple weeks ago about a fungus. Found an article:

A fungus that caused widespread loss of bee colonies in Europe and Asia may be playing a crucial role in the mysterious phenomenon known as Colony Collapse Disorder that is now wiping out bees across the United States, University of California at San Francisco researchers said Wednesday.
Researchers have been struggling for months without success to explain the disorder, and the new findings represent the first solid evidence pointing to a potential cause.

But the results are "highly preliminary" and are from only a few hives from Le Grand, in MercedCounty, UCSF biochemist Joe DeRisi said. "We don't want to give anybody the impression that this thing has been solved."

Other researchers said Wednesday that they, too, had found the fungus, a single-celledparasite called Nosema ceranae, in affected hives from around the country — as well as in some hives that have continued to survive and live. Those researchers also have found two other fungi and a half-dozen viruses in the dead bees.

"N. ceranae" is one of many pathogens in the bees, said entomologist Diana Cox-Foster of Pennsylvania State University. "By itself, it is probably not the culprit … but it may be one of the key players."

Cox-Foster was one of the organizersof a meeting in Washington, D.C.,onMonday and Tuesday where about 60 bee researchers gathered to discuss Colony Collapse Disorder.

"We still haven't ruled out other factors, such as pesticides or inadequate food resources following a drought," she said. "There are lots of stresses that these bees are experiencing," and it may be a combination of factors that is responsible.

Historically, bee losses are not unusual. Weather, pesticide exposures and infestations by pests, such as the Varroa mite, have wiped out significant numbers of colonies in the past, particularly in the 1960s and 1970s.

But the current loss is unprecedented. Beekeepers in 28 states, Canada and England have reported large losses. About a quarter of the estimated 2.4 million colonies across the United States have been lost since last fall, said Jerry Hayes of the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services in Gainesville.

"These are remarkable and dramatic losses," said Hayes, who also is president of the Apiary Inspectors of America.

Besides a loss in honey production, commercial beehives are used to pollinate onethird of the country's agricultural crops, including apples, peaches, pears, nectarines, cherries, strawberries and pumpkins. Ninety percent of California's almond crop is dependent on bees, and a loss of commercial hives could be devastating.

"For the most part, they just disappeared," said Florida beekeeper Dave Hackenberg, who was among the first to note the losses.

"The boxes were full of honey. That was the mysterious thing. Usually, other bees will rob those hives out. But nothing had happened."

Researchers said they now believe that the foraging bees are too weak to return to their hives.

DeRisi and UCSF's Don Ganem, who normally look for the causes of human diseases, were brought into the bee search by virologist Evan W. Skowronski of the U.S. Army's Edgewood Chemical Biological Center in Aberdeen, Md.

Dr. Charles Wick of the center had used a new system of genetic analysis to identify pathogens in ground-up bee samples from California. He found several viruses, including members of a recently identified family called iflaviruses.

It is not known if these small, RNAcontaining viruses, which infect the Varroa mite, are pathogenic to bees.

Skowronski forwarded the samples to DeRisi, who also found evidence of the viruses, along with genetic material from Nosema.

"There was a lot of stuff from Nosema, about 25 percent of the total," Skowronski said. "That meant there was more than there was bee RNA. That leads me to believe that the bee died from that particular pathogen."

If Nosema does play a role in Colony Collapse Disorder, there may be some hope for beekeepers.

A closely related parasite called Nosema apis, which also affects bees, can be controlled by the antibiotic fumagillin, and there is some evidence that it will work on N. ceranae as well.

[Tredici]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I worked in the bee business when I was in high school. I loved it. I got stung over 39 times in one yard. You could just smell the bee venom on me which just made the bees more excited. I had tears coming down my face. I didn't like that part of the job.

I doubt this is mites. Not any type of mite we have seen before. Mites kill bees in the hive. From what I have read these bees are not dieing in the hive they are vanishing. There are billions of bees MISSING. They are leaving the hive and not coming back. That is not mites. That is why the cell phone theory was floated because maybe it was interfering with their navigation back to the hive. I don't know what the problem is but this is serious way more than people here realize.

You may have inadvertantly strengthened your immune system. At first it was a phenomenon that people suffering from severe arthritiis had sudden remission after suffering bee attacks. More than remission the bee venom seems to "cure" the condition. Now the same results are being found in people who suffer from MS. At first people specially trained in the use of bee venom worked with patients and the results are so encouraging the MS Society is now actively pursuing bee venom in their research efforts.

Bees rule!

[alkemical]

Interesting Stuff Tred......

[Kaylore]

Thanks, Tred. I hope they get this figured out. I haven't seen a honey bee in a long time. I miss them.

[Hogan11]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Thanks, Tred. I hope they get this figured out. I haven't seen a honey bee in a long time. I miss them.

Well, I don't as they seem to have made camp just outside the back corner of my house this year. You can have these guys if you'd like.

I'd feel guilty if I called in the chemical strike on them in light of what's going on...but they sure as hell ain't gonna stay there for long, that's a non-issue.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Hogan11

Well, I don't as they seem to have made camp just outside the back corner of my house this year. You can have these guys if you'd like.

I'd feel guilty if I called in the chemical strike on them in light of what's going on...but they sure as hell ain't gonna stay there for long, that's a non-issue.

If you call a bee-keeper they will come and take them from you for free. When I was in middle school a bunch of bees landed on a tree outside our house and of course the queen was in the middle of a giant blob. The guy came over and vacuumed them up and said he keeps them for his own profit.

[Hogan11]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

If you call a bee-keeper they will come and take them from you for free. When I was in middle school a bunch of bees landed on a tree outside our house and of course the queen was in the middle of a giant blob. The guy came over and vacuumed them up and said he keepd them for his own profit.

I'm not so sure about that "free" part here...but it certainly is an option to look into.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Tredici

You may have inadvertantly strengthened your immune system. At first it was a phenomenon that people suffering from severe arthritiis had sudden remission after suffering bee attacks. More than remission the bee venom seems to "cure" the condition. Now the same results are being found in people who suffer from MS. At first people specially trained in the use of bee venom worked with patients and the results are so encouraging the MS Society is now actively pursuing bee venom in their research efforts.

Bees rule!

You're right.

We used to have old people come to the shop and we would capture stray bees and sting their hands and fingers because they said it helped with their arthritis.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

If you call a bee-keeper they will come and take them from you for free. When I was in middle school a bunch of bees landed on a tree outside our house and of course the queen was in the middle of a giant blob. The guy came over and vacuumed them up and said he keeps them for his own profit.

sure they do it for free. Odds are it's from one of their colonies. When a colony becomes too big the worker bees will produce another queen by feeding some eggs "Royal Jelly" these eggs will become queens. Whatever queen survives will have a battle with the queen of the hive and the dominant one will stay and the other queen will take some bees and swarm. They usually camp out on a tree or a post surrounding the queen while other workers are out looking for a new place to live.

That's why as a bee keeper you have to change out the honey in the hives and add boxes to it or it will become to crowded and they will swarm. You also have to look through the comb and smash all the queen eggs to keep them from swarming.

[Spider]

now that someone mentions it , I havent seen a Bee in years . one time I was outside of San antonio texas , hit a swarm of bees , thousands of them ....... my rig was covered in dead bees

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

now that someone mentions it , I havent seen a Bee in years . one time I was outside of San antonio texas , hit a swarm of bees , thousands of them ....... my rig was covered in dead bees

\

we have flowering bushes that line our front yard but NO BEES.. There are thousands of butterflies out there pollinating them but no bees whatsoever. I just check yesterday. Kind of eeerie.

[alkemical]

Lots of carpenter bees near me, but not so many honey bees from what i've seen.