So did BATES Take these guys?

[ScottXray]

I said something the other day in another thread about the fact that Shanny has fired the last four Defensive co-ordinators, and that Bates probably only came here with some proviso's about personnel choices.

Our draft is over and it doesn't look to me like a Shanahan draft. He might have reached a bit in the past, and the Cutler trade last year might still end up being one....but Shanny usually doesn't give his picks away, and the trade in the first was a pretty good reaming, to make sure we got Moss.

I think Bates proviso was that he had to have control of the DEFENSE completely, and also had to get his personnel in the draft..at least this year. His title is assistant head coach...and maybe he wanted that to be for real.
One things for sure...He wanted a new Defensive line (YAY) , and yesterday he got one. Our MLB was released after we couldn't trade him due to injury, even though he was a team stallwart.

Shanny brought in a RB and Bates brought in Bly.

Seems to me this was Bates draft. Maybe next year too.
Gonna be an interesting year!

[Clockwork Orange]

Moss was definitely Bates' pick.

[GonzoLays]

We should have seen this type of draft coming a mile away. Bates needs certain types of defensive lineman like Alex Gibbs need small (relatively speaking) guys on the Oline.

If we wanted our defense to be successful next year, we had to address the defensive line in a manner that would be compatible with what Bates likes to do on defense.

So in the end, we did what we had to do to be successful next year and I dig it.

[Barry Ramey]

Well, I'm sure Shanahan trusts Bates and the results he's gotten in the past from his defenses and performances of players have gone up it seems from his coaching and system, so I would guess Bates had a big hand in what went down in the draft.

[Odysseus]

Broncos blew up all the draft rumors and actually went after fixing the point of attack. I like that they didn't waste picks doing the annual dart board draft. They got the guys they wanted and moved forward.

[ZONA]

1) Nobody dictates to The Mastermind. Bates may have requested some things, but he most certainly didn't demand anything from Mike. Bates probably used simple logic when choosing to come to Denver. His son works here and, he probably knows with his defense and Mikes offense, a superbowl can be had, which only moves him closer to a HC job of his own. He probably saw that Kubes was an assistant and got a HC job, several of our other coaches and staff go onto be GM's and such. It was probably the best thing he could do. So no, he did not go to Mike and say I want total control of half the team and almost all of the draft. Gimme a break man.

2) The Moss pick was not a ream job by any means. Not yet anyway. You can only say it was or was not until you see the guy on the field and what kind of impact he has. So to say it was reaming is a completey stupid statement.

[Wes Mantooth]

I have always felt that while Mike has final say, every position coach gets an opportuntiy to make a pitch for their guy. For example, look at the defense over the year since it has the greatest amount of turnover. Each coordinator picked up guys that fit their style. It appears that there is a conflict between what Coyer did and what Bates wants to do thus the purge on the D-Line.

[sirhcyennek81]

I am thinking everyone agreed improving depth and talent on the defensive line was going to be the first step in making a championship defense. I like the mix of size, speed, youth and veteran leadership that is on the line, It is entirely possible on opening day the only vet starter on the DL is Warren.

[TheDave]

There is also the chance that the need for talent on the DLine got so blindingly obvious they had no choice but to load up.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by TheDave

There is also the chance that the need for talent on the DLine got so blindingly obvious they had no choice but to load up.

Broncos pulled a 2004. Draft 3 corners and hope one of them makes an impact. Draft 3 DLinemen and see who makes an impact.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Broncos pulled a 2004. Draft 3 corners and hope one of them makes an impact. Draft 3 DLinemen and see who makes an impact.

And they were the right prospects. Most draft picks don't work out but I like that we went after role-players who will be given a legit opportunity to succeed here. Bates will have them doing things relatively similar to what they did in college save for Crowder and he's so balanced that he'll be able to help out one way or another. Also they play special teams.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

And they were the right prospects. Most draft picks don't work out but I like that we went after role-players who will be given a legit opportunity to succeed here. Bates will have them doing things relatively similar to what they did in college save for Crowder and he's so balanced that he'll be able to help out one way or another. Also they play special teams.

Exactly. If denver had come in and drafted S, WR, LB, RB, people would be flipping out because they did not address the defensive line. They did, and got a solid OT from ND in the process.

[Watchthemiddle]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

And they were the right prospects. Most draft picks don't work out but I like that we went after role-players who will be given a legit opportunity to succeed here. Bates will have them doing things relatively similar to what they did in college save for Crowder and he's so balanced that he'll be able to help out one way or another. Also they play special teams.

Any coincidence that two of them played at Florida and Bates was in Miami??

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by TheDave

There is also the chance that the need for talent on the DLine got so blindingly obvious they had no choice but to load up.

He has ignored the d-line for a very long time... a couple years ago I wanted Shanny to get Mike Patterson from USC but I think that was the year they traded out of round 1 & drafted 3 DB's...

[Lev Vyvanse]

Originally Posted by Watchthemiddle

Any coincidence that two of them played at Florida and Bates was in Miami??

It's been three years since he coached in Miami.

[jayman_37]

Does Marcus even fit Bates' scheme? He is more of a one gap DT and thats not how Bates plays.

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by ZONA

1)

2) The Moss pick was not a ream job by any means. Not yet anyway. You can only say it was or was not until you see the guy on the field and what kind of impact he has. So to say it was reaming is a completey stupid statement.

We gave up way more than even value for that trade. 40-50 points more. Our 86 alone would make that trade a 10 point gain for Jax. The extra six plus 10 means we gave a 5th round pick away. I call that a reaming cause it is more than likely we could have got Moss at 21. Water under the bridge now.

But the very nature of the picks indicate that Bates was calling the shots. Shanny would never have traded up for Moss. It changed our whole draft. The 3rd was Shannys pick all the way. Bates probably had to give that back for the trade up.

Don't forget that Bates was sought by more than the Broncos, and he knew Shanny fired the last four DC's. I think he definitely said control of this draft was a condition for him to come here......Because he wasn't gonna take the fall for a defensive collapse without having HIS defense in place. He is a smart coach.

Anyway..we are gonna have a defensive Rush now..unless these guys end up in suspension with the new get tough policy by the league. Lets pray they don't

[footstepsfrom#27]

I don't think Shanny takes orders from anyone, including Bowlen. I do agree though that trading up for Moss might have been Bates influence. The 4th and extra picks has Mike's hand on it though...he loves to gamble on risks, be they medical or character in nature. I think this is mostly a case of the defensive front line being so decimated they simply had no choice but to go almot all D-line.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I don't think Shanny takes orders from anyone, including Bowlen. I do agree though that trading up for Moss might have been Bates influence. The 4th and extra picks has Mike's hand on it though...he loves to gamble on risks, be they medical or character in nature. I think this is mostly a case of the defensive front line being so decimated they simply had no choice but to go almot all D-line.

The game is won in the trenches and that's where we drafted. I'm very pleased.

[cutthemdown]

Broncos had 4 players they wanted in first round. Okoye, Anderson, Harrell, Moss. When GB took Harrell only one was left so Broncos didn't take any chances and moved up and grabbed him. You have no way of knowing if Moss would have lasted to 21. You can guess but you don't know.

[Denver Crush]

I think there was obviously a bates influence in the types of players we took, but the line lacked depth and needed more talent. Shanny saw what we all saw last year, and in most recent years previous to last, our brownco built d line just couldn't hold up and stop anyone when it mattered. I think Shanny and Bates both wanted the same outcome. Im very pleased myself. This is gonna be an exciting time to be a bronco fan again!

[watermock]

Since Al is gone, maybe Burnsie can read the riot act to them.

[watermock]

On the www.broncos.com front page, both DE's look like they need a little meat on their bones. Of course that is next that DT, but he's only 290.

One thing that really amazed me was how big players look in pads, and how normal they look out of them.

I haven't met alot of players, but when I got face to face with Foley and Meck, they wern't intimdating beasts. While Foley was a jerk, Mello Meck was a complete gentle giant, but also smaller than I anticipated.

The helmet, the shoulder pads, the padding makes them bigger and TV pulls some trick on us as well somehow. If someone looks skinny in pads, they are REALLY skinny.

At any rate, players look much more human in person. I'm not saying either was smaller than their listed size, just that they looked...well...human. Meck was much much more personable than Foley.

[Denver Crush]

Jarvis Moss dwarfed Rod Mackey on the 9news Overtime interview tonight. I wish I had a vid capture.

[Crushaholic]

Part of being a genius and a good leader is having talented people surrounding you and delegating responsibilities to them. If Bates made these picks, I have no problem with that...