Awful coaching in Kansas City

[fontaine]

Chiefs defensive tackle picks didn’t click
Ex-coach Karmelowicz says Chiefs made mistakes; former player says coaching ‘awful.’
By JASON KING
The Kansas City Star
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A former Chiefs assistant on Saturday accused the organization of ignoring “red flags” that could’ve prevented the draft busts that led to the team’s current talent shortage at defensive tackle.

And former defensive lineman Eddie Freeman used the word “awful” to describe the coaching he received during his time in Kansas City.

Freeman, Junior Siavii and Eric Downing were each first-day NFL draft selections by the Chiefs during 2001-04. None lasted more than three years in the league.

Bob Karmelowicz, a Chiefs assistant during 1997-05, said he sensed the team was making a mistake by using such high draft picks on the players — particularly Freeman and Siavii.

“Junior and Eddie were both good kids,” said Karmelowicz, who worked with the defensive line. “But they had social issues. They were too high-maintenance. You can’t take ‘projects’ in the second round. It shouldn’t have happened.”

Especially not with Siavii, Karmelowicz said.

Some people were shocked when the Chiefs made Siavii the 36th overall pick in the 2004 draft. Karmelowicz said Siavii’s line coach at Oregon, Steve Greatwood, was a former assistant for the St. Louis Rams and was friends with then-Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil.

“Dick fell in love with the kid and the recommendation,” Karmelowicz said. “He had had some serious drinking issues (in college) that we just gave him a passing grade on. When I ran my reports on him, there was always a question of maturity and toughness.”

Karmelowicz said he could see from watching Siavii’s film that physicality might be a problem.

“As a position coach you can only say so much, but he had never played a tough brand of football,” Karmelowicz said. “If you hit him in the mouth, he was going to blink. But we ended up taking someone’s word that he was tough.”

Siavii spent two lackluster seasons with the Chiefs before being cut during last season’s training camp. Attempts to locate Siavii were unsuccessful.

The process that led to the drafting of Freeman also made Karmelowicz uncomfortable. He said the Chiefs didn’t do adequate research on Freeman before selecting him with the 43rd overall pick in the 2002 draft.

Karmelowicz said former defensive coordinator Greg Robinson “fell in love” with Freeman at the Senior Bowl. The Chiefs sent vice president of football operations Lynn Stiles to Alabama-Birmingham to meet with Freeman. The two went out to eat — but Freeman was never asked to work out, according to Karmelowicz. Messages left Saturday night for Stiles went unreturned.

“I guess he was a good dinner date,” Karmelowicz said. “No one ever worked Eddie out. We never watched a film of Eddie working out. All Stiles did was take him out to dinner. Maybe we should’ve done a more thorough job.”



On the morning of the draft, Karmelowicz said, he didn’t expect the Chiefs to select Freeman. But a player the Chiefs were targeting — Karmelowicz wouldn’t say who — was taken just before Kansas City was set to pick.

“Most people were dying to go with someone else,” Karmelowicz said. “But Eddie was the highest-rated player left in the draft at all positions. Time was running out, so we just ended up taking him based on where he was rated on the board. Based on that, he was the only option. The board drafted Eddie Freeman.”

Karmelowicz said Freeman arrived at training camp with medical problems that had gone unnoticed. He said he had problems with “lower body stiffness” along with “classroom issues” and “social issues” that made Freeman difficult to coach.

Those things, Karmelowicz said, would’ve been detected had the Chiefs done better research.

“With Eddie there were opportunities to discover red flags,” Karmelowicz said, “and we didn’t discover them.”

Reached Saturday in Orlando, Fla., Freeman said he was never given the chance to develop during his time in Kansas City. He said he was surprised the team chose to keep Karmelowicz while players like him, Downing and Siavii struggled to improve.

“From the outside looking in, I can see why people would say we were busts,” Freeman said. “But we weren’t getting coached. It was awful.

“There’s no way that people from back then can look at themselves (in the mirror) and say they gave Eric, me and Siavii a chance.”

Freeman and Downing were cut prior to the 2004 season. With Siavii getting the boot last summer, the Chiefs’ failure to draft a quality defensive tackle was magnified even more.

The only defensive tackle the team has drafted lately that’s still on the roster is Ryan Sims, a first-round selection in 2002. But he’s been a major disappointment and isn’t likely to be with the team next season.

“When I was there (some of the linemen) got told that we couldn’t do this and that and that we were sorry,” Freeman said. “But they were telling someone (Sims): ‘You’re our guy, you’re our guy.’ (Shoot), he was out there getting his (butt) kicked, too.”

Freeman said Karmelowicz confused him and some of his teammates by trying to make the game too “scientific.” Freeman said he was fond of the Chiefs’ other defensive line coach, Carl Hairston. But he said Hairston rarely had the opportunity to give any input.

“They treated him like a janitor,” Freeman said. “We have to take some responsibility because we didn’t get the job done,” Freeman said. “But when you bring in all these linemen, and none of them are improving, you’ve got to look at the coaching, too.”

“I went to New England for preseason camp (in 2006). Their linemen aren’t any more talented than the ones the Chiefs drafted. But they work with those guys there. Ty Warren, Jarvis Green … they work with them and make them better.”

Karmelowicz didn’t seem bothered that Freeman said he wasn’t “developed.”

“That’s like me saying that I could learn to slam dunk if someone would just work with me,” Karmelowicz said. “We both know it’s not going to happen. Eddie was one tough cookie, and he tried real hard. But there’s a reason he’s not playing anymore.”

Karmelowicz left the team after Vermeil’s retirement in January 2006 and took a job coaching the defensive line in Houston, where he worked with defensive end and No. 1 overall draft pick Mario Williams. Karmelowicz was reassigned to a non-coaching role after last season.

“I’m not trying to throw anyone under the bus, but facts are facts,” Freeman said. “The same coach who had us had Mario Williams in Houston last year — and how did Williams do? Not very good, right?”

“Maybe we were just that non-talented in Kansas City. I don’t know. I thought me and Eric Downing did OK when we played. But once they stopped getting production out of their high draft picks, they needed to look at their coaching. Instead they got rid of us and kept him.”

Siavii and Downing are both out of football while Freeman is in his first season with the Arena Football League’s Orlando Predators.

Now 29, Freeman said he’s still holding out hope that he’ll get another chance in the NFL. But if the Arena League is his future, so be it.

“We’re playing in front of 15,000 every game,” Freeman said. “I’ve got peace of mind here. I wish the Chiefs nothing but luck”

Freeman pauses for a moment. Sure, he may be content. But deep down there’s a part of him that still seems to hold a grudge.

“I was listening to Dick Vermeil commentate a game last season,” Freeman said. “And he made some statement like, ‘You always have to give your big guys, your linemen, extra time to develop.’

“I was like, ‘Hell, then, why did I only get two years?’ ”

http://www.kansascity.com/160/story/79661.html

[Florida_Bronco]

Is this really any surprise? It's been an ongoing trend since the 90's when the Chiefs would have solid teams, but they could never get it done.

It's not lack of talent. It starts with their idiot GM and tumbles down to their idiot staff as well.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's a lack coach combined with poor talent.

Eddie Freeman whack former chief OLineman Tait with a Helmet to the head in pre-season. Eddie Freeman is a moron, and while he might be right about the coaching, he's still a jackass and I believe everything Karmelowicz says about him.

"Karmelowicz said Freeman arrived at training camp with medical problems that had gone unnoticed. He said he had problems with “lower body stiffness” along with “classroom issues” and “social issues” that made Freeman difficult to coach."

[broncswin]

damn boys we gotta leak

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

But Bob said Junior Saviai (alias Jelly Junior) would be an all pro for years to come

[FantomForce]

[Kaylore]

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Major indictment of the old coaching staff. Good thing Herm has turned it around.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

It starts with their idiot GM and tumbles down to their idiot staff as well.

What does that say about your team, dumbass?

[broncosteven]

I like the changes the Cheef's have made at QB and Oline this year! Really turning those positions around!

Huard might have a pass over 30 yards this year & I am sure LJ will be in shape to get hit another 400+ times this year.

Together Huard & LJ should be able to hit at least 8-8. Only if they pick up the RED KNIGHT again to save the day on D!

I only wish that Cutler could sit on the bench for 6 years like Huard did so he could learn & really show the NFL what it is to be a real game manager like Huard is.

[crazyhorse]

I told you guys Grob was a lousy D-coordinator.

Now there's the proof you needed.

[watermock]

Long live King Karl! Hail the King!

KC had a window for a couple years. We all told Bobo that they needed to address the defense. King Karl rolled out 11 starters from the year before.

Then we told Bobo that by the time they got the D fixed, the attrition of the aging offence would make it impotent soon.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Major indictment of the old coaching staff. Good thing Herm has turned it around.

Goooonther!

What does that say about your team, dumbass?

The Broncos just aren't as consistent as the Chiefs.

[Los Broncos]

Lets hope its get worse before its get better. I really do hate the queefs with all of my heart.

[Tredici]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I told you guys Grob was a lousy D-coordinator.

Now there's the proof you needed.

We had the proof needed when Shanahan fired him. Nobody here thought KC was doing anything but garbage picking. All though, generally you all defend our garbage religiously.

[crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Tredici

We had the proof needed when Shanahan fired him. Nobody here thought KC was doing anything but garbage picking. All though, generally you all defend our garbage religiously.

I could have sworn I've had many a debate on this very board about how poor a coach I thought he was. I am certain I wasn't the one defending him.

As for defending your garbage.....only those that come back to make the Donks look like fools. Especially.................

Champ Bailey

[Phantom]

It might be 30 years before the Chiefs win a playoff game. They're already halfway there.

[Tredici]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I could have sworn I've had many a debate on this very board about how poor a coach I thought he was. I am certain I wasn't the one defending him.

As for defending your garbage.....only those that come back to make the Donks look like fools. Especially.................

Champ Bailey

It takes so little to make you guys happy.

Let me think.... Do I want Champ Bailey on my roster for 16 games or Eddie Kennison?

Makes me wonder who really has that little mentally challenged problem.

[crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Tredici

It takes so little to make you guys happy.

Let me think.... Do I want Champ Bailey on my roster for 16 games or Eddie Kennison?

Makes me wonder who really has that little mentally challenged problem.

I'll conceed, when Kennison is burning Bailey, I'm happy.

As for having Bailey for 16 games, that would be great. Unless of course, he had to go against Kennison.

I'm not sure of the mentally challenged comment of your post. It lacks your usual zing. I'm guessing it's just a flinch because I called out your boy.

Was it the bigger letters?

Mental indeed.

[Tredici]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I'll conceed, when Kennison is burning Bailey, I'm happy.

As for having Bailey for 16 games, that would be great. Unless of course, he had to go against Kennison.

I'm not sure of the mentally challenged comment of your post. It lacks your usual zing. I'm guessing it's just a flinch because I called out your boy.

Was it the bigger letters?

Mental indeed.

No, I just didn't want to use the phase you use regarding the less fortunate.

And, if one game when Champ plays with a bum shoulder and a bad hammy makes you so happy, then I think it's great you can have so little, mean so much.

Hopefully Eddie keeps that roster spot locked up another year.

[crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Tredici

No, I just didn't want to use the phase you use regarding the less fortunate.

And, if one game when Champ plays with a bum shoulder and a bad hammy makes you so happy, then I think it's great you can have so little, mean so much.

Hopefully Eddie keeps that roster spot locked up another year.

Sounds like ecxuses to me, but okay.

Keep the faith.

BTW, when you say less fortunate did you mean Bronco fans? Thats what I mean. But you knew that.

[azbroncfan]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

What does that say about your team, dumbass?

It's called 2 9-7 teams. Denver is clearly a better team as look to the teams they beat doughnut boy. How did that BACKING into the playoffs work for the queefs.

[Donk]

What does that say about Denver,s coaching?

[Inkana7]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

Sounds like ecxuses to me, but okay.

Keep the faith.

BTW, when you say less fortunate did you mean Bronco fans? Thats what I mean. But you knew that.

See, the thing about smacking an opposing fan is that you have to use something with substance. When you call Bronco fans less fortunate, it really doesn't mean anything coming from a Chiefs fan. If you don't understand why, I'll just leave you with this:

[DenverDuo]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

What does that say about your team, dumbass?

What does this say about your team, fatass?