|04-15-2007, 05:20 AM||#1|
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Join Date: Apr 2006
David Ray Griffin's new book about 9/11
Like in the case of this reviewer, I had a chance to read a part of Griffin's new book before its publication. I totally agree with the following review, which just went up at amazon. I'm posting it here because you won't see any reviews of the book in the mainstream US media, which has treated Griffin as if he were a leper. That's prophets get treated in their own land.
The reviewer is correct. The 9/11 Commission Report has now been fully refuted -- and there are no counter arguments left. MHG
DEBUNKING 911 DEBUNKING
by David Ray Griffin
by Alexander E. Paulsen "AlexP" (Jacksonville, Fl United States)
After reading David Ray Griffin's (DRG's) other books on 9/11 I had high expectations. With his book I was not disappointed.
As Barrie Zweicker observes, Griffin is clearly a prophet for our time. All his books are well constructed, cogent and very well researched and referenced.
In his latest work Griffin dissects the so-called 9/11 debunkers. Those who claim that the Kean Commission [the 9/11 Commission) was the "fullest possible accounting into the events of September 11th" basically have their hindquarters handed to them - gift-wrapped.
I have read the Popular Mechanics (PM) book and found that in my opinion it debunks itself, It is loaded with false assertions and contradictions. It creates it's own straw man arguments and from it's forward admites that it accpets the offcial story even before it looks at any evidence. All road lead to the Kean Commission report and the very basis of the PM book is that the Kean Commission answered all the questions and all that remained is to match the facts with the offical story any way they could. This is admitted right form the first page.
The PM book eads more like a parody than a serious analysis. A parodsy DRG seemd to have fun blowing to pieces.
It is obvious to the casual observer that many if the most vocal supporters of the Kean Commission and the PM book have not actually read either. DRG points out many issues that I (and probably most folk) missed even after several careful readings of both.
Well, DRG had read them and exposes each and every contradiction, impossibility and all the lies. Further, they're exposed so thoroughly and completely that there are no counter arguments left. Griffin misses nothing; there are no weaknesses or chinks in the case. This is the work of a true scholar.
This is a powerful book and one that is very dangerous to the adherents of the official story of 9/11. I predict that this book will gather several single-star reviews by folks who have not even seen it much less read it, that is to be expected I suppose. It is also typical of those who worship the official story; none wish to be confronted with the facts. Facts for which they have no counter argument.
This book despite being information dense and meticulously referenced is a true scholarly work, yet easy to read. Gripping in fact, and liberally sprinkled with DRG's wry wit.
Reading a well-researched book like this written by a genuine scholar is a real treat and a contrast to the usual nonsense that tends to get published today. When you read a book written at this level it is an eye-opening experience. After this go read one of the sophomoric "debunkers" that this book addresses for a good laugh.
It is not essential to read any of Griffin's other works on this subject, but I highly recommend that every interested or curious party read "A New Pearl Harbor" and "Omissions and Distortions" This work does stand on it's own but mainly deals with destroying the self-proclaimed debunkers attempts to prop up the official story.
Griffin misses little and even if you have read the "debunkers" and laughed as I have, Griffin, as the scholar makes points and observations that many have missed even after careful study. That is what real scholars do, That is the difference between a scholar and an amateur shill like James Meigs of Popular Mechanics.
If this book is responded to at all by the corporate media outlets do not expect it to be challenged on the material within. Expect shrill ad-hominum attacks, expect them to call DRG or traitor or that he insults the victims or the troops. Expect everything BUT facts.
I actually don't expect any major media outlets to review this book, even in an attempt to debunk it, it will be way too dangerous. I expect this book to greeted mostly with silence. I also notice that the Hannity's and O'Reilly's will never invite Griffin on their shows. They know DRG is way out of their league and has the truth and facts on his side. He would destroy them and they know it. Plus, he would destroy them with a smile while the other side sputters and spits.
Any honest person interesting in the future of our republic must read this book. If you are honest and believe the official story then read it, if you think that it cannot possible be true then refute it but refute it on the facts presented if you can.
|04-15-2007, 11:22 AM||#3|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Here's what someone says about Paulsen:
Since you seem to hold opposing views on every conceivable aspect of what actually happened on 911, why did Bush 43 even bother to have jets fly into the WTC when your demolition charges could obtain the same results, and then there would not even be this question entertained by the Griffin's of the world that it was planted explosives that brought down WTC? After all, Omar Abdel-Rahman attempted to do just that back in 1993.
Since a mock up of a skyscraper of WTC proportions was not necessary for practise, please refer me to any "controlled demolition" that has brought down any similar object?
Your "facts" about the construction of WTC are completely erroneous. The Empire State Building was indeed overly constructed, but the WTC was not only an eye sore in architectural design, it was, as proved by its collapse after the planes hit it, very poorly designed.
Exactly when did all this surreptitious planting of thermite explosives in numerous hard to reach areas in both towers happen? How did all this work manage to go unnoticed? Remember that Nixon's plumbers could not even get in and out of The Watergate unnoticed. Is Bush 43 even more diabolical than Nixon? I thought Libs figured him for a dunce and a fumbler.
The molten aluminium found at the seen was the remnants of the jets. Or do you believe they were merely a hologram?
I love this passage of yours:
"the conspirators announced the "surprise" collapse of Building 7 to the media over an hour before the "surprise" happened. It was reported on CNN and the BBC video is available online."
Now you are saying the media knows who these "conspirators" are, since they actually talked to them, and are still concealing their identity? You characterize this as less than "flawless." This "conspiracy" seems to alternate from amazing Mission Impossible implementation to Barney Fife incompetence. I guess this would be analogous to Castro, the CIA, The Mafia, LBJ, or any other entity or combination there of, going to the media and announcing their intention to assassinate JKF one hour before Oswald fired at JFK's motorcade.
Explain again why they would want to be in contact with the media before, during, or after the event at all?
How quickly after 911 did you reject what actually occurred in favor of this government plot? Perhaps you were one of the "few" who knew the "truth" about what was about to happen before it happened.
By your estimation, the motive of murdering 3000 Americans, all the people on board the four aircraft, the destruction of the buildings and the jets is "intuitively" obvious. One might conclude that it is you, and those of your mindset, who are deliberately being obtuse. You reject the fact that Al-Qaeda declared war against the U.S. back in 1998. That the planes even contained hijackers from Saudi Arabia. That the air phones calls from the passengers are faked. That there were no passengers. And on and on.
Joshua Key is his own worst enemy. Naturally, his pathetic story would appeal to the hard core 911 conspiracy water carriers. My branch of service and MOS would only be relevant to this discussion if I had double-crossed my comrades in arms, took up residence in a foreign country, and then had a professional writer assemble a fulsome account of my perfidious military career.
You and others are so wedded to this 911 conspiracy, that no matter what facts are presented to debunk any aspect of this mammoth plan, you would just dismiss it as more government disinformation. And remember, in order for this to be a conspiracy of the proportions Griffin suggests, but never bothers to prove, every aspect of it has to be swallowed or the recipe is invalid. In essence, in for a penny, in for a pound. Unlike the JFK assassination, any departure from the "conspiracy" tapestry means a complete unravelling of this trumped up exercise in epistemology.
|04-15-2007, 12:04 PM||#4|
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Join Date: Mar 2006
We're supposed to believe with today's media who hates Bush and his admin. and even making stories up to get attention if have to, are somehow out of the loop on this though. Or better yet, they have decided not to print these stories to protect Bush. And better yet, as many people as it would take to pull this stuff off, not one has spoken out, knowing instant riches and fame sure to follow. Right. Really takes a naive fool to believe the crazy rantings of paranoid idiots.
|04-16-2007, 09:15 AM||#6|
Join Date: Apr 2001
What makes you think you aren't helping to spread disinformation? Maybe some of the stuff you get hooked on is part of it, ya know.
|04-16-2007, 09:18 AM||#8|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Whom wrote that about Alexander Paulsen? Do we have a link? A source? What's the credability of the person who wrote this?
Until we get this information, this post is garbage - nothing more than a poisen the well tactic by Wags. Wags doesn't want a real discussion, he just wants to crucify someone and MGH takes LABF's place. Not to mention the book is a retort to "Popular Mechanics" - which of course - Wags defends despite it being published under a publishing company who made it's name using yellow journalism.
Last edited by alkemical; 04-16-2007 at 09:20 AM..
|04-16-2007, 09:26 AM||#9|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
|04-16-2007, 09:43 AM||#10|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Hey i'm just being fair. I don't believe much of what MHG posts in terms of 9/11. I think most of it is a rabbit-hole meant to actually muddy the waters and distract people from any real anolomolies.
I have to subject every media source to scrutiny Gary. With lack of true independant media ownership, and the smear campaign against anyone whom disagrees with the "Official 911 gov't sponsored Theory" - I have every right view it with extreme scrutiny. Bearing in mind what the message is saying. By controlling what you read, hear, see - it alters what you think and how you think. When mainstream media shapes our world, is it really for our benifit - or theirs & the advertisers? With the Executive branch being caught using propoganda as "news" - how can i really trust what's printed or given to me?
It's not beneath me to ask those questions wags and point out the track record of a companies actions and history over the years. But also you've made it very clear you'd like to keep things status quo for your & your childrens interests. So i also have to take that into account on what you post, and why you post it. I mean, was it beneath you to try to trap me into molly what's-her-names death - due to some bush-hating conspiracy? Hmmmm.....
|04-16-2007, 11:00 AM||#11|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
|04-16-2007, 11:24 AM||#13|
Join Date: Apr 2001
But i didn't fall for it, i called your bluff on it - because you never bothered to retort - which of course - is your standard MO for when you get caught in your silly simple games. But again, it is a character defining trait of yours Gary.
|04-16-2007, 11:49 AM||#14|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Of course, I won't point out the flaws in your premise that no media is trustworthy - but since your skepticism is of the will-o-the-wisp variety, I'll just let you stew in your subjectivity.
|04-16-2007, 12:11 PM||#15|
Join Date: Apr 2001
As opposed to what, your "objectivity" that nothing should be questioned? That different media outlets don't have agendas? I may not be coy, but at the least i'm not that stupid.
|04-16-2007, 12:25 PM||#16|
Join Date: Dec 2002
ignored. I recall reading that in the summer of 2001 Ashcroft stated
"We are through worrying about terrorists."
|04-16-2007, 10:36 PM||#17|
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Join Date: Apr 2006
1. Get a copy of the 9/11 Commission report. (Read only the first chapter That is enough.)
2. Get a copy of Griffin's companion book: The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
3. Get a copy of Paul Thompson's book 9/11 Timeline. (Or you can access it on line at http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/p...ct=911_project
This is the minimum number of resources you need to study 9/11 -- and to evaluate the official story. If you put in the time you will discover that the official story is only a small fraction of the total picture. Much of what they left out conflicts with and even contradicts the official story. The Thompson timeline is close to being comprehensive. Compare this to the official story -- and it will blow your mind.
In a forthcoming article I will show examples of outright deception by the 911 commission. Why would they lie? Obviously, to conceal the truth: That 9/11 was an inside job -- done for a political reason -- to service the neo con agenda: perpetual warfare.
|04-16-2007, 10:51 PM||#18|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
I'd still like to know how the planes were rigged to fly remotely without anyone noticing all the extra hardware...
|04-16-2007, 11:30 PM||#19|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
|04-16-2007, 11:59 PM||#20|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Ok here's an story:
Say there's a lobbyist - who has been setting up sex parties for politicians among many other "favors" these public servants - all the way up the latter to say - some judges, very powerful legislators - and maybe some high ranking executive branched officials - Say - some "terrorists" had ties to this lobbyist - which means maybe this lobbyist has more sway on some blackmail - thus buying silence to what maybe a real plan to influence a nation's policies by proxy.....
that's one i ran into that is plausible.
|04-17-2007, 12:49 AM||#21|
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Without specifics, it's as plausible as space aliens with mind-control rays...
Or are you in fear if you tell us what you Really Know?
|04-17-2007, 01:32 AM||#22|
Join Date: Jul 2001
From Gravy http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=79698
How many people have been involved in 9/11 investigations?
Good point. I'll have to add that to my list. Ref, there's no way of putting a number to it: many thousands of people from hundreds of agencies and organizations were involved (in several countries). But here's a start:
1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
7,000+ FBI Agents
8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
ACE Bermuda Insurance
Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington
Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue
Allianz Global Risks
American Concrete Institute
American Institute of Steel Construction
American Red Cross
Applied Biosystems Inc.
Applied Research Associates
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
Arlington County Fire Department
Arlington County Sheriff's Department
Arlington VA Police Department
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee
Atlantic Heydt Inc.
Berlin Fire Department
Big Apple Wrecking
Blanford & Co.
Bode Technology Group
Building and Construction Trades Council
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville
Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept.
California Incident Management Team
Carter Burgess Engineering
Centers for Disease Control
Central City Fire Department
Central Intelligence Agency
Cleveland Airport control tower
Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee
Consolidated Edison Company
Construction Technologies Laboratory
Controlled Demolitions Inc.
Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat
Counterterrorism and Security Group
D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc.
DeSimone Consulting Engineers
Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners
DiSalvo Ericson Engineering
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon
E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews
Edwards and Kelcey Engineering
Engineering Systems, Inc.
Environmental protection Agency
Exponent Failure Analysis Associates
EYP Mission CriticalFacilities
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
Falcon 20 crew in PA
Family members who received calls from victims on the planes
FBI Evidence Recovery Teams
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Insurance Co.
FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1
FEMA Disaster Field Office
FEMA Emergency Response Team
FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3
Fire Department of New York
Fort Myer Fire Department
Fourteen teams of search dogs from Oregon
French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force
Friedens Volunteer Fire Department
Gene Code Forensics
Georgia Tech Engineering Dept.
Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP
Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers
Guy Nordenson Associates
HHS National Medical Response Team
HLW International Engineering
Hooversville Rescue Squad.
Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department
Hoy Structural Services
Hughes Associates, Inc
Hugo Neu Schnitzer East
hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC
Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives
Industrial Risk Insurers
Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems
International Association of Fire Chiefs
International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15
J.R. Harris & Company
Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc.
KCE Structural Engineers
Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates
Laboratory Corp. of America
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
Leslie E. Robertson Associates
Listie Volunteer Fire Company
M.G. McLaren Engineering
Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc.
Metal Management Northeast
Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue
Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers
Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc.
National Center for Biotechnology Informatics
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
National Council of Structural Engineers Associations
National Disaster Medical System
National Emergency Numbering Association
National Fire Protection Association
National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute
National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
National Military Command Center
National Reconnaissance Office
National Response Center
National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems
National Security Agency
National Transportation Safety Board
Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center
New Jersey State Police
New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force
New York City Department of Design and Construction
New York City Department of Environmental Protection
New York City Office of Emergency Management
New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
New York City Police Department Aviation Unit
New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
New York Daily News
New York Flight Control Center
New York Newsday
New York Port Authority Construction Board
New York Port Authority Police
New York State Emergency Management Office
New York State Police Forensic Services
New York Times
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew
Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists
Numerous Forensic Dentists
Numerous Forensic Pathologists
Numerous Forensic Radiologists
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
Office of Emergency Preparedness
Office of Strategic Services
Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering
Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services
Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
Pennsylvania State Police
Pentagon Defense Protective Service
Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team
Pentagon Medical Staff
Pentagon Renovation Team
Phillips & Jordan, Inc.
Port of New York and New Jersey Authority
Public Entity Risk Institute
Purdue University Engineering Dept.
Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers
Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc
Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers
Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams
Salvation Army Disaster Services
several EPA Hazmat Teams
several FBI Hazmat Teams
several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams
Severud Associates Consulting Engineers
Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company
Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire
Society of Fire Protection Engineers
Somerset Ambulance Association
Somerset County Coroner's Office
Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
Somerset Volunteer Fire Department
St. Paul/Travelers Insurance
State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company
Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
Structural Engineers Association of New York
Swiss Re America Insurance
Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes
Teng & Associates
Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc.
Tokio Marine & Fire
Transportation Safety Administration
Twin City Fire Insurance
Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
United States Air National Guard
United States Fire Administration
United States Secret Service
United Steelworkers of America
University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research
US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County
US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command
US Department of Defense
US Department of Justice
US Department of State
Virginia Beach Fire Department
Virginia Department of Emergency Management
Virginia State Police
Vollmer Associates Engineers
Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering
Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
Willis Group Holdings
WJE Structural Engineers
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
World Trade Center security staff
Zurich Re Risk Engineering
|04-17-2007, 01:32 AM||#23|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Conspiracists: are these people liars, dupes, or shills?
Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E.
Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E.
Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E.
Amy Zelson Mundorff
Anamaria Bonilla, S.E.
Andrew McConnell, S.E.
Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E.
Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E.
Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist
Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E.
Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D.
Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E.
Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS
August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E.
Bernie Denke US&R Structural Specialist
Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.)
Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E.
Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E.
Brian McElhatten, S.E.
Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB
Charles Hirsch, M.D.
Charles J. Carter, AISC
Charles Thornton, P.E.
Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC
Chuck Guardia, S.E.
D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E.
Dan Doyle (IW 40)
Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E.
Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E
Daniele Veneziano, P.E.
David Davidowitz, ConEd
David Hoy, S.E.
David Leach, USACE
David M. Parks, ME
David Peraza, P.E., S.E.
David Sharp, S.E.
David T. Biggs, P.E.
Dean Koutsoubis, S.E.
Dean Tills, P.E.
Delbert Boring, P.E.
Dennis Clark (IST)
Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D.
Dennis Mileti, Ph.D.
Dick Posthauer, S.E.
Donald Friedman, P.E.
Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E.
Ed McGinley, P.E.
Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD
Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief
Edward Depaola, S.E.
Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD
Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E.
Farid Alfawakhiri Ph.D.
FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuono
FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale
FDNY Chief Frank Cruthers
FDNY Chief Frank Fellini
FDNY Chief Joseph Callan
FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro
FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti
FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
FDNY Firefighter Sam Melisi
Francis J. Lombardi, P.E.
Frank Gayle, Sc.D
Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA
Gary Steficek, S.E.
Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA
George Tamaro, P.E., S.E.
Gerald Haynes, P.E.
Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist
Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA
Guylene Proulx, Ph.D.
H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E.
Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E.
Harry Martin, AISC
J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E.
Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department
James A. Rossberg, P.E.
James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist
James H. Fahey, S.E.
James Lord, FSFP.E.
James Milke, Ph.D., P.E.
Jan Szumanski, IUOE
Jason Averill, FSFP.E.
Jeffrey Hartman, S.E.
John Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.)
John J. Zils, P.E., S.E.
John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Lekstutis, P.E.
John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E.
John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC)
John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC)
John Odermatt (NYC OEM)
John Ruddy, P.E., S.E.
John Ryan, PAPD
John W. Fisher, P.E.
Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E.
Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D
Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E.
Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E.
Jozef Van Dyck, P.E.
Juan Paulo Morla, S.E.
Karl Koch III
Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E.
Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.)
Kevin Terry, S.E.
Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E.
Larry Keating (IW 40)
Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E.
Lawrence Griffis, P.E.
Leo J. Titus, P.E.
Leonard M. Joseph, P.E.
Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E.
Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E.
Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E.
Louis Errichiello, S.E.
Manny Velivasakis, P.E.
Mark Kucera, USACE
Mark Tamaro, P.E
Mark Volpe, IW 40
Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E.
Merle E. Brander, P.E.
Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E.
Michael Burton, P.E.
Michael Hessheimer, S.E.
Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E.
Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC)
Mike Marscio, P.E.
Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E.
Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E.
Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E.
Norman Groner, Ph.D.
Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E.
Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul Tertell, P.E.
Peter Chipchase, S.E.
Peter Rinaldi, P.E.
Rajani Nair, S.E.
Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E
Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E.
Raymond F. Messer, P.E.
Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E
Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E.
Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E.
Richard Gann, Ph.D.
Richard Garlock, P.E., S.E.
Richard Kahler US&R Structural Specialist
Robert C. Sinn, P.E., S.E.
Robert F. Duval (NFPA)
Robert Frances US&R Structural Specialist
Robert J. McNamara, P.E., S.E.
Robert Ratay, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
Robert Shaler, M.D.
Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E
Robert Solomon, P.E.
Robert Wills, AISC
Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E.
Ronald J. LaMere, P.E.
Ronald Rehm, Ph.D.
Ronald Spadafora, FDNY D.A.C
Ruben M. Zallen, P.E.
Russell "Rusty" Dodge Jr, Asst. Chief, Fort Belvoir FD
S. Shyam Sunder, P.E., S.E.
Saw-Teen See, P.E.
Shankar Nair. P.E., S.E.
Shawn Kelly, Arlington County Fire Marshal
Socrates Ioannides, P.E., S.E.
Stan Murphy, P.E.
Steve Rasweiler, FDNY B.C. (SOC)
Stuart Foltz, P.E.
Terry Sullivan, Tully
Theodore Galambos, P.E.
Theodore Krauthammer, Ph.D., P.E.
Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E.
Thomas Hawkins Jr, Chief, AFD
Thomas Schlafly, AISC
Todd Ude, P.E., S.E.
Tom Scarangello, P.E.
Tom Stanton (IST)
Tony Beale, P.E.
Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E.
Victor Hare, P.E.
Vincent Dunn, FDNY (ret.)
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
W. Lee Evey
William Baker, P.E., S.E
William Grosshandler, Ph.D., ME
William McGuire, P.E.
Willie Quinlan, IW
Zdenek Bazant, Ph.D., S.E.
9/11 Commission & Staff
Thomas H. Kean, Chair
Lee H. Hamilton, Vice Chair
Fred F. Fielding
Jamie S. Gorelick
John F. Lehman
Timothy J. Roemer
James R. Thompson
Raj De Counsel
Gerald L. Dillingham
T. Graham Giusti
Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk
Philip Zelikow, Executive Director
The Congressional Joint Inquiry on 9/11
Bob Graham, D - Florida, Chairman
Richard C. Shelby, R - Alabama, Vice Chairman
John D. Rockefeller
James M. Inhofe
Richard J. Durbin,
Al Cumming, Staff Director
William Duhnke, Minority Staff Director
Porter J. Goss, Chairman
Sanford D. Bishop
Michael N. Castle,
Sherwood L. Boehlert
Gary A. Condit
Leonard L. Boswell
Collin C. Peterson
Timothy R. Sample, Staff Director
Michael W. Sheehy, Democratic Counsel
the Zacharias Moussaoui prosecution team
A few details to flesh out the numbers
...The federal presence was much larger in New York, as well. A dizzying blur of acronym soup arrived to help: CDC, FAA, FBI, HHS and dozens more. At the height of the federal response, there were a total of 6,547 federal employees, including 1,544 from FEMA and its US&R task forces, supporting operations in New York and Virginia. Of the 27 available FEMA US&R teams, more than 20 eventually rotated through New York, representing a total of 1,240 firefighters and 80 search dogs. As many as eight teams at a time operated in New York. http://firechief.com/mag/firefightin...dersfeds_join/
And although this is a fire scene, it is also a crime scene, which means a large unit of crime scene investigators is present, working from a tent at the corner of West St. and Liberty. (Report from Ground Zero by Dennis Smith, p.194)
There are two dump sites. One is in Fort Hamilton, Brooklyn, and the other is in Great Kills, Staten Island. At each location police investigations unit detectives and FBI agents are spotting and sifting through every truckload, searching for the flight recorders of the planes and for any remains of the victims. (ibid, p.201)
In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the FBI's response was immediate. In a matter of hours we had deployed to each of the crash sites, ordered dozens of seasoned management personnel back to Washington, and fully staffed a 24/7 operation at our Command Center with up to 500 persons representing approximately 30 federal agencies. At the height of the 9/11 investigation, known as PENTTBOM, the FBI assigned 7,000 agents to assist full-time. The majority were reassigned from other national security and criminal investigative work. The lack of prior counterterroism training and experience, although not recognized by the OIG, needs to be factored into this discussion. ...Meanwhile, PENTTBOM became the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI. In spite of operating under severe handicaps, the New York Office - relocated to a garage on 26th street, and lacking a proficient infrastructure - began a 24/7 operation utilizing 300 investigators from 37 agencies. The 1-800 toll-free line set up in our Atlanta office received 180,000 calls from a shocked public eager to assist. 225,000 e-mails were received on the FBI's internet site. Evidence response teams from throughout the country were dispatched to New York, Washington and Pittsburgh. Nationwide we covered over 500,000 investigative leads and conducted over 167,000 interviews. We collected over 7,500 pieces of evidence which were submitted for analysis. Working in conjunction with New York City agencies and authorities, we helped process over 1.8 million tons of debris for investigative leads and victim identification and took more than 45,000 crime scene photographs. http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003...03rolince.html
Approximately 7,000 FBI Employees Were Redirected in Early Weeks. At its peak, approximately 6,000 Special Agents were working on the investigation with assistance from support staff. Additional resources were dedicated to the related threats and tragedies such as the anthrax investigation, Olympics security, the Richard Reid investigation, and the Daniel Pearl kidnapping. New FBI Investigative Groups Were Created. The Financial Review Group, Document Exploitation Group, and E-Mail Exploitation Group were all created since September 11th. In addition, the Telephone Applications Group as well as the Threat, Warning, Analysis and Dissemination Groups were both expanded. http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/05/...nfactsheet.pdf
At least 449 responding organizations in New York City. Over 8,000 people given security clearance to work at Pentagon crash site Good look at Arlington County, Virginia (Pentagon) first responder organizational structure http://dels.nas.edu/dr/docs/harrald.pdf
Flight 93: Shanksville At Shanksville, which was by far the smallest of the three 9/11 crash scenes, over 1,100 people from 74 agencies and organizations worked at the scene. On 9/11 alone, these included: • 8 Police Departments • 7 EMS Services • 8 Fire Departments • 10 Emergency Management Agencies • NTSB • ATF • FBI • CISM • Red Cross • United AirlinesSource: PowerPoint presentation by Rick Lohr, Director of Somerset County Emergency Management Agency. Download it here as a PDF http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Some...agementAge.pdf
In addition to the estimated 10,000 Fire Department of New York (FDNY) personnel, an estimated 30,000 other workers and volunteers potentially were exposed to numerous psychological stressors, environmental toxins, and other physical hazards. http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5335a1.htm
Because of ongoing fire activity and the large numbers of civilians and rescue workers who were killed during the attacks, approximately 11,000 FDNY firefighters and many emergency medical service (EMS) personnel worked on or directly adjacent to the rubble and incurred substantial exposures. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
OSHA calculates that in over 3.7 million work hours, only 57 non-life threatening injuries were recorded at the WTC site. http://www.pdhealth.mil/library/down...Health%20Admin istration%20Response.pdf
You’re dealing with a work scene that, in the first week or two, had probably two to three thousand, if not more, emergency responders on the scene. Pretty much 24 hours a day. All of them with various backgrounds and training. You had construction workers, you had heavy-equipment operators, you had medical workers, firefighters, police officers, hygienists, military personnel. All of them with different levels of training, different types of equipment. So you had to try and logistically bring in all of the equipment for these people. You’re bringing in multiple manufacturers and vendors. —Firefighter-special operations panel member http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_procee.../CF176.ch2.pdf
Fresh Kills Crime Scene Info * The site covered 175 acres. * 24 local, state, and federal agencies participated, with as many as 1,000 workers a day * 17,000 tons of material were processed daily. * 55 FBI Evidence Response Teams worked the site -- over 1,000 agents -- plus FBI medics, safety officers, and other specialists. * New York Evidence Response Team members worked over 8,000 hours at the site, at the morgue, and at Ground Zero -- and one, Special Agent Gerry Fornino, personally worked over 1,818 hours at the vehicle recovery operation with the Port Authority and NYPD. Source: http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm
Number of U.S. Customs Agency Volunteers working search and inspection at Fresh Kills Landfill: at least 193 http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2...y_location.xml
from RECOVERY: THE WORLD TRADE CENTER RECOVERY OPERATION AT FRESH KILLS (PDF of Traveling Exhibit) The exhibition chronicles the quiet history after September 11. The days at Fresh Kills ended as discreetly as they began. Debris removal at Ground Zero ended on June 28, 2002. The sorting at Fresh Kills officially ended on July 2 at 1:02 p.m. Recovered from the 1.8 million tons of material inspected: 4,257 human remains helped bring closure to hundreds of families; 54,000 personal items and 4,000 photographs, many returned to their owners; 1,358 personal and departmental vehicles; and thousands of tons of steel. The numbers are difficult to process, but these images begin to tell the story. The Police, FBI, City Sanitation workers, and the thousands who worked there made history “on the hill.” The hill that overlooks downtown Manhattan where the towers once stood is now changed forever – Mark Schaming Director of Exhibitions and Programs New York State Museum Above exhibit thanks to these organizations working at Fresh Kills: The New York Police Department The New York Fire Department The Federal Bureau of Investigation New York City Department of Sanitation Phillips and Jordan, Inc. The Fresh Kills Incident Commander, NYPD Inspector James Luongo, Lt. Bruce Bovino, FBI Special Agents Richard Marx and Gerry Fornino, the FBI Evidence Response Team, the NYPD Recovery Team, the Port Authority Police Department, NYC Department of Sanitation, and all the people from the World Trade Center Recovery Operation
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers receives Fresh Kills debris management contract http://sept11.wasteage.com/ar/waste_...resh/index.htm
400 FBI Agents working at Fresh Kills (and some taking souvenirs?) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4373627/
As you know, on September 11, 2001, Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and New York Police Department (NYPD) detectives were dispatched to the Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island, New York to process the debris of the World Trade Center (WTC) for physical evidence and human remains. This recovery effort, the largest and longest in the FBI's history, resulted in 1.8 million tons of debris being collected and examined by twenty-four federal, state, and local agencies. On September 12, 2001, I was designated to lead and coordinate this effort as an Evidence Response Team (ERT) Leader. This operation ceased in August 2002. –Richard B. Marx, Special Agent http://www.ussartf.org/news.htm Engineer salvage yard visits for steel inspection As of March 15, 2002, a total of 131 engineer visits had been made to these yards on 57 separate days. An engineer visit typically ranged from a few hours to an entire day at a salvage yard. The duration of the visits, number of visits per yard, and the dates the yards were visited varied, depending on the volume of steel being processed, the potential significance of the steel pieces being found, salvage yard activities, weather, and other factors. Sixty-two engineer trips were made to Jersey City, 38 to Keasbey, 15 to Fresh Kills, and 16 to Newark. Three trips made in October included several ASCE engineers. Eleven engineer trips were made in November, 41 in December, 43 in January, 28 in February, and 5 through March 15, 2002. Source: FEMA WTC report, Appendix D
Local responders arrived immediately, and other agencies, including five USAR teams, came to assist. The Arlington County Fire Department set up an incident command system and coordinated the emergency response. The rescue and recovery phase lasted 11 days, after which Arlington County transferred responsibility for the incident and site management to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), on September 21. No esponders were killed. Demolition of the damaged area began on October 18 and was completed on November 29. Reconstruction of the damaged area is expected to be completed in Spring 2003. http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_procee.../CF176.ch2.pdf
Good study of response and (partial) list of organizations responding to the Pentagon attack Observing and Do http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eicdrm/publicat....htmlcumenting the Inter-Organizational Response to the September 11th Attack on The Pentagon
October 1, 2001 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES personnel assigned
TOTAL PERSONNEL Emergency Operations Center (EOC): Rockville, MD 20 New York City 594 FEMA Response Headquarters: Washington, DC 11 FBI Command: Washington, DC 2 Regional Operations Centers (I, II, III, IV): Various 9. TOTAL 636
|04-17-2007, 09:05 AM||#24|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Wouldn't i need to read the full 9/11 report to then compare it to both authors books?
|04-17-2007, 09:10 AM||#25|
Join Date: Apr 2001