The OrangeMane WEIGHT LOSS Thread - Page 42 - The Orange Mane

TheReverend · 07-09-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

I'm still in the weight loss phase, dropping about 5-7lbs a week which is actually above average compared to the people I know who went on this before me.

Even on this diet, you do have to increase the carbs some during those phases.

Are you obese?

Florida_Bronco · 07-09-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Are you obese?

I'm 6 foot even, and was 285 when I started the diet.

TheReverend · 07-09-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

I'm 6 foot even, and was 285 when I started the diet.

"Yes" works..

How far along are you now?

TheReverend · 07-09-2009, 09:05 PM

Awesome read on cardio and which types are most effective. Making me rethink a few things. Following written by Layne Norton not me:

Cardio

Perhaps the most dreaded word in a bodybuilder's vocabulary is "cardio." Unfortunately, cardio is a necessary evil of pre contest prep for most people. Few are able to achieve contest bodyfat levels through diet alone (i.e. ectomorphs with extremely fast metabolisms).
In men, cardio increases lipolysis in visceral fat (surrounding organs), especially in the stubborn abdominal area. In women, cardio increases lipolysis in the stubborn subcutaneous buttocks and thigh area in women. This is due to innervation and blood flow, which aerobic activity influences much more than diet alone ¹⁷.
Cardiovascular exercise has several myths surrounding it. The largest myth being that one should perform low intensity cardio in a fasted state. The logic being that if one is in a fasted state, their glycogen levels will be low and will force their body to burn fat. Unfortunately, this idea is misguided.
While performing cardio in a fasted state may indeed increase the amount of calories that are burned from fat stores, it will also increase amino acid oxidation. Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss.
Additionally, I find it ironic that many people take such great care to time their meals so that they do not go for more than 2-3 hours without eating in order to prevent muscle loss. However, they purposefully induce this state and then perform work on top of this!
Research has shown that the type of substrate used during cardiovascular work makes little overall difference on fat loss. This is most likely due to the fact if one relies mostly upon fat stores during cardio (i.e. low intensity cardio), the body will burn predominantly glucose at other times of the day. Likewise, if one mainly utilizes glucose for energy during cardio (i.e. high intensity cardio) the body will customarily rely on fat at other times of the day in order to spare muscle glycogen.
Training in and of itself causes the body to preferentially spare muscle glycogen and burn fat. It makes sense that one should strive to do their cardio on their 'off days' from lifting (as to not further hinder their recovery), and plan their carbohydrate intake similar to their lifting regime.
Cardiovascular work will increase nutrient partitioning towards muscle tissue and away from fat tissue. One should take advantage of this by consuming the bulk of their carbohydrate intake around this time. The benefits are that these nutrients induce fat storage, but will rather be stored in muscle tissue.
Why would you want to deny your muscles nutrients at the most crucial time of the day, but then provide them during rest? It does not make sense. Treat your cardiovascular work like your lifting.
Another question that often arises regarding cardio is the argument "Low-Intensity vs High-Intensity" cardio. Many people automatically assume that low-intensity cardio is better; citing that high-intensity cardio primarily utilizes glucose (anaerobic metabolism), while low-intensity cardio primarily burns fat (aerobic metabolism).
Once again, the substrate used during cardiovascular work is not as important as the caloric deficit created by the cardiovascular work. In actuality, high-intensity cardiovascular work is superior to low-intensity cardio for several reasons
High intensity cardio has a much stronger effect on GLUT-4 translocation in muscle cells due to the increased force of muscle contraction. This means that high-intensity cardio creates a much stronger nutrient partitioning effect towards muscle tissue than low-intensity cardio. Low periods of low-intensity exercise tend to "overtrain" the fast-twitch muscle fibers and convert the intermediate muscle fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This is not a desirable effect as the fast twitch muscle fibers are those that have the greatest chance to hypertrophy. If your body has less fast twitch fibers, then you will experience less hypertrophy from training.

The body's hormonal response to high intensity cardio is similar to the body's hormonal response to resistance training (i.e. increased insulin sensitivity, gh release, Igf-1 release, etc) without placing the same strain on the nervous system as resistance training.
High-intensity cardio causes the body to preferentially store more carbohydrates and burn more fat.
High-intensity cardiovascular exercise increases oxygen expenditure and forces the body to adapt by becoming more efficient at oxygen transport (increase in VO2 max). More efficient oxygen transport to the muscles will increase fat oxidation as fat oxidation is dependant upon the presence of oxygen.
High-intensity cardio seems to be more muscle sparing. Several studies have shown that high-intensity interval training (aka HIT) burns less calories when compared to continuous lower intensity cardio. However, the skinfold losses were greater with the HIT group than in the continuous intensity group. This means not only did the HIT group lose more fat, they also spared more muscle tissue by burning less overall calories .
At this point I am going to refer you to several articles that I think are some of the best I've seen regarding cardiovascular work. I urge you to read them as they will re-emphasize what I have already stated, as well as help you gain a further understanding of how cardiovascular work effects your metabolism.

http://www.dolfzine.com/page483.htm
(if you only read one article READ THIS ONE!)
http://www.dolfzine.com/page484.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter2.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter3.htm

I also implore you to read this thread from the bodybuilding.com message boards as it may help you better understand the subject and or answer any questions you might have. In conclusion, I suggest performing HIT cardiovascular work on their off days only. One should treat this cardio session like a weight session and eat accordingly (as outlined in the diet section). If you must perform cardio on your lifting days then do it on the day you train your weakest body part and divide up your carbohydrate intake in view that you leave enough carbohydrates for both pre/post lifting and cardio.

Florida_Bronco · 07-09-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

"Yes" works..

How far along are you now?

I was down to 258 about 3 weeks ago, then I started taking creatine and my weight shot back up to 270 and down again to 265 last week. I was sticking to the diet like I had been before, so my only explanation for that is that the creatine was giving me a bunch of water weight. I knew that would happen, but I wasn't expecting 12 lbs worth of water weight.

I weigh myself once a week (usually Friday or Saturday) first thing in the morning after hitting the bathroom. I'll let you know what my current weight is after that.

TheReverend · 07-09-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

I was down to 258 about 3 weeks ago, then I started taking creatine and my weight shot back up to 270 and down again to 265 last week. I was sticking to the diet like I had been before, so my only explanation for that is that the creatine was giving me a bunch of water weight. I knew that would happen, but I wasn't expecting 12 lbs worth of water weight.

I weigh myself once a week (usually Friday or Saturday) first thing in the morning after hitting the bathroom. I'll let you know what my current weight is after that.

Take a caffeine pill. It's works as a diurectic to keep your water weight lower and will give your metabolism a MILD boost. Emphasis on MILD.

This is all just my opinion, but I view keto as a smoke and mirrors trick. Are you sure it's right for you?

Florida_Bronco · 07-09-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Take a caffeine pill. It's works as a diurectic to keep your water weight lower and will give your metabolism a MILD boost. Emphasis on MILD.

Thanks, I'll try that.

Quote:

This is all just my opinion, but I view keto as a smoke and mirrors trick. Are you sure it's right for you?

Yeah, I do. The weight is coming off easy, I have more energy than I did before and I'm having no problems increasing the weights when I'm lifting.

I'm extremely happy with how this diet is going for me.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-10-2009, 01:43 AM

Hey Rev, what do you think of this? I'm tempted to severely reduce my cardio because its a pain in the ass.

How to lose fat for Noobs

I originally posted this in the nutrition forum, but it probably belongs here. You only have to follow three simple rules:

- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.

Success is 100% guaranteed. There's really not much more to it.

TheReverend · 07-10-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Hey Rev, what do you think of this? I'm tempted to severely reduce my cardio because its a pain in the ass.

How to lose fat for Noobs

I originally posted this in the nutrition forum, but it probably belongs here. You only have to follow three simple rules:

- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.

Success is 100% guaranteed. There's really not much more to it.

I know that thread

That's actually PERFECT advice. The problem is, most people who don't already have good control over their weight usually don't have the best grasp on what their base metabolic rates, best types of food, disciplined eating habits, etc are.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-10-2009, 02:20 PM

The guy's diet is incredible. He basically has one pig-out meal a day, a little healthy oil and a 100g whey protein shake. And he's ripped as ****.

I love it.

Taco John · 07-10-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

The guy's diet is incredible. He basically has one pig-out meal a day, a little healthy oil and a 100g whey protein shake. And he's ripped as ****.

I love it.

That's actually similar to what I've been doing, except that I'm not working out right now. I'm just trying to shed fat. I'm doing it all in long term stages so that I can stay focused and motivated.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-10-2009, 07:27 PM

Personally, I'd start lifting if I were you, Taco. It's all about body composition. You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It's not gonna come off nearly as fast if you're not lifting.

Find 3 hrs a week and just do it.

Taco John · 07-10-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

The guy's diet is incredible. He basically has one pig-out meal a day, a little healthy oil and a 100g whey protein shake. And he's ripped as ****.

I love it.

He looks freakish to me...

I don't think humans look very good without a certain amount of fat on them. I understand that he's probably in competitions and stuff, but anorexic with muscles is definitely not the look I'm going for. I'm looking more in the neighborhood of healthy normal guy.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-10-2009, 07:37 PM

I guarantee you women don't think he looks freakish.

Also, I would guess those photos were taken right after he did a "dry" cut, where all the water got flushed out of his system. He probably doesn't look like that all the time.

TheReverend · 07-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

I guarantee you women don't think he looks freakish.

Also, I would guess those photos were taken right after he did a "dry" cut, where all the water got flushed out of his system. He probably doesn't look like that all the time.

He probably looks pretty close all the time. Probably more ripped if he does competitions pre-competition. That's also flexed vs relaxed, and posing and angles make a dramatic difference too. Regardless, he's done good.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-11-2009, 12:15 AM

I consumed 205g of protein today. GO ME!

Taco John · 07-11-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

I guarantee you women don't think he looks freakish.

Also, I would guess those photos were taken right after he did a "dry" cut, where all the water got flushed out of his system. He probably doesn't look like that all the time.

Maybe some don't think he looks freakish. My wife does. The "Anorexic with muscles" crack actually originated from her.

Plus, I'm not all that interested in what women think. My tail chasing days are behind me.

TheReverend · 07-16-2009, 05:34 PM

My three weeks in AZ really screwed me. Eating cheat meals every day and trying to make up for it with starvation really screwed the pace of my cut. I leave for my cruise in 1.5 days now and I'm way off target.

Also, on cruise I'm expecting to gain a good 3-4% BF, so I'm gonna have to recut when I get home. Probably through the end of August. Then, I can't WAIT to eat constantly all winter long.

Posting end result pics soon, even though they both disappoint and depress me.

TheReverend · 07-16-2009, 05:37 PM

Ignore the retarded faces I'm making in these pictures.

Relaxed front:

A little tensed:

Flexed:

TheReverend · 07-16-2009, 05:37 PM

Blurry side shot:

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-16-2009, 10:49 PM

fatty

BroncoBuff · 07-17-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Ignore the retarded faces I'm making in these pictures.

Relaxed front:

A little tensed:

Flexed:

Wow Rev that is really impressive

Remember that Bears poster, BearsMan18? We talked about this, he had similar results.

TheReverend · 07-17-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Wow Rev that is really impressive

Remember that Bears poster, BearsMan18? We talked about this, he had similar results.

I'm not pleased but it'll have to do.

BearMan18? I heard that was you. Glad to hear you're getting results then.

Bob's your Information Minister · 07-22-2009, 05:52 AM

This is real good. I was shocked to learn that my maintenance is 2600/2700 calories. I could pig the **** out at that level.

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

missingswife · 07-28-2009, 10:10 AM

Wow this thread kinda turned into just you guys huh.. I have been off here for awhile!

Rev looking good!

Taco i think that guy is on the edge of to much for my taste. I dont care for it when i can see the veins popping out! You do have to do some cardio if u are trying to shed fat.. but the more muscle u have the more fat u will burn... Do weights that arent as heavy as the body builders... Toned turns us women on.. yes even the wives!

07-09-2009, 09:05 PM	#1029
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 32,985 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	Awesome read on cardio and which types are most effective. Making me rethink a few things. Following written by Layne Norton not me: Cardio Perhaps the most dreaded word in a bodybuilder's vocabulary is "cardio." Unfortunately, cardio is a necessary evil of pre contest prep for most people. Few are able to achieve contest bodyfat levels through diet alone (i.e. ectomorphs with extremely fast metabolisms). In men, cardio increases lipolysis in visceral fat (surrounding organs), especially in the stubborn abdominal area. In women, cardio increases lipolysis in the stubborn subcutaneous buttocks and thigh area in women. This is due to innervation and blood flow, which aerobic activity influences much more than diet alone ¹⁷. Cardiovascular exercise has several myths surrounding it. The largest myth being that one should perform low intensity cardio in a fasted state. The logic being that if one is in a fasted state, their glycogen levels will be low and will force their body to burn fat. Unfortunately, this idea is misguided. While performing cardio in a fasted state may indeed increase the amount of calories that are burned from fat stores, it will also increase amino acid oxidation. Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss. Additionally, I find it ironic that many people take such great care to time their meals so that they do not go for more than 2-3 hours without eating in order to prevent muscle loss. However, they purposefully induce this state and then perform work on top of this! Research has shown that the type of substrate used during cardiovascular work makes little overall difference on fat loss. This is most likely due to the fact if one relies mostly upon fat stores during cardio (i.e. low intensity cardio), the body will burn predominantly glucose at other times of the day. Likewise, if one mainly utilizes glucose for energy during cardio (i.e. high intensity cardio) the body will customarily rely on fat at other times of the day in order to spare muscle glycogen. Training in and of itself causes the body to preferentially spare muscle glycogen and burn fat. It makes sense that one should strive to do their cardio on their 'off days' from lifting (as to not further hinder their recovery), and plan their carbohydrate intake similar to their lifting regime. Cardiovascular work will increase nutrient partitioning towards muscle tissue and away from fat tissue. One should take advantage of this by consuming the bulk of their carbohydrate intake around this time. The benefits are that these nutrients induce fat storage, but will rather be stored in muscle tissue. Why would you want to deny your muscles nutrients at the most crucial time of the day, but then provide them during rest? It does not make sense. Treat your cardiovascular work like your lifting. Another question that often arises regarding cardio is the argument "Low-Intensity vs High-Intensity" cardio. Many people automatically assume that low-intensity cardio is better; citing that high-intensity cardio primarily utilizes glucose (anaerobic metabolism), while low-intensity cardio primarily burns fat (aerobic metabolism). Once again, the substrate used during cardiovascular work is not as important as the caloric deficit created by the cardiovascular work. In actuality, high-intensity cardiovascular work is superior to low-intensity cardio for several reasons High intensity cardio has a much stronger effect on GLUT-4 translocation in muscle cells due to the increased force of muscle contraction. This means that high-intensity cardio creates a much stronger nutrient partitioning effect towards muscle tissue than low-intensity cardio. Low periods of low-intensity exercise tend to "overtrain" the fast-twitch muscle fibers and convert the intermediate muscle fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This is not a desirable effect as the fast twitch muscle fibers are those that have the greatest chance to hypertrophy. If your body has less fast twitch fibers, then you will experience less hypertrophy from training. The body's hormonal response to high intensity cardio is similar to the body's hormonal response to resistance training (i.e. increased insulin sensitivity, gh release, Igf-1 release, etc) without placing the same strain on the nervous system as resistance training. High-intensity cardio causes the body to preferentially store more carbohydrates and burn more fat. High-intensity cardiovascular exercise increases oxygen expenditure and forces the body to adapt by becoming more efficient at oxygen transport (increase in VO2 max). More efficient oxygen transport to the muscles will increase fat oxidation as fat oxidation is dependant upon the presence of oxygen. High-intensity cardio seems to be more muscle sparing. Several studies have shown that high-intensity interval training (aka HIT) burns less calories when compared to continuous lower intensity cardio. However, the skinfold losses were greater with the HIT group than in the continuous intensity group. This means not only did the HIT group lose more fat, they also spared more muscle tissue by burning less overall calories . At this point I am going to refer you to several articles that I think are some of the best I've seen regarding cardiovascular work. I urge you to read them as they will re-emphasize what I have already stated, as well as help you gain a further understanding of how cardiovascular work effects your metabolism. http://www.dolfzine.com/page483.htm (if you only read one article READ THIS ONE!) http://www.dolfzine.com/page484.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter2.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter3.htm I also implore you to read this thread from the bodybuilding.com message boards as it may help you better understand the subject and or answer any questions you might have. In conclusion, I suggest performing HIT cardiovascular work on their off days only. One should treat this cardio session like a weight session and eat accordingly (as outlined in the diet section). If you must perform cardio on your lifting days then do it on the day you train your weakest body part and divide up your carbohydrate intake in view that you leave enough carbohydrates for both pre/post lifting and cardio.

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07-10-2009, 01:43 AM	#1033
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	Hey Rev, what do you think of this? I'm tempted to severely reduce my cardio because its a pain in the ass. How to lose fat for Noobs I originally posted this in the nutrition forum, but it probably belongs here. You only have to follow three simple rules: - Workout 3 times a week with weights. - Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass. - Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week. Success is 100% guaranteed. There's really not much more to it.

07-10-2009, 02:20 PM	#1035
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	The guy's diet is incredible. He basically has one pig-out meal a day, a little healthy oil and a 100g whey protein shake. And he's ripped as ****. I love it.

07-10-2009, 07:27 PM	#1037
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	Personally, I'd start lifting if I were you, Taco. It's all about body composition. You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It's not gonna come off nearly as fast if you're not lifting. Find 3 hrs a week and just do it.

07-10-2009, 07:37 PM	#1039
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	I guarantee you women don't think he looks freakish. Also, I would guess those photos were taken right after he did a "dry" cut, where all the water got flushed out of his system. He probably doesn't look like that all the time.

07-11-2009, 12:15 AM	#1041
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	I consumed 205g of protein today. GO ME!

07-16-2009, 05:34 PM	#1043
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 32,985 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	My three weeks in AZ really screwed me. Eating cheat meals every day and trying to make up for it with starvation really screwed the pace of my cut. I leave for my cruise in 1.5 days now and I'm way off target. Also, on cruise I'm expecting to gain a good 3-4% BF, so I'm gonna have to recut when I get home. Probably through the end of August. Then, I can't WAIT to eat constantly all winter long. Posting end result pics soon, even though they both disappoint and depress me.

07-16-2009, 05:37 PM	#1044
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 32,985 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	Ignore the retarded faces I'm making in these pictures. Relaxed front: A little tensed: Flexed:

07-16-2009, 05:37 PM	#1045
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 32,985 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	Blurry side shot:

07-16-2009, 10:49 PM	#1046
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	fatty

07-22-2009, 05:52 AM	#1049
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,918 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	This is real good. I was shocked to learn that my maintenance is 2600/2700 calories. I could pig the **** out at that level. http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

07-28-2009, 10:10 AM	#1050
missingswife missingswife Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North dakota Posts: 9 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Wow this thread kinda turned into just you guys huh.. I have been off here for awhile! Rev looking good! Taco i think that guy is on the edge of to much for my taste. I dont care for it when i can see the veins popping out! You do have to do some cardio if u are trying to shed fat.. but the more muscle u have the more fat u will burn... Do weights that arent as heavy as the body builders... Toned turns us women on.. yes even the wives!