The OrangeMane WEIGHT LOSS Thread

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's the thing about the V-Diet. It changes your eating habits.

But I will remember your post, Taco. I'm sure she will be around in 90 days and looking just as good.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Where's Plummer???

not if you keep your protien count up

Complete myth.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

197.5

stoked

[mr007]

Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by mr007

Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

****, I even do them twice a year and I agree.

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by mr007

Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

And why do you feel this way? Keep in mind that I'm on one right now and feel great. A close friend of mine went on the diet before me and lost around 100lbs in a year while building a very muscular body. In that time, his blood sugar, cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure levels went from high (even dangerous) down to normal levels on this diet. He's still extremely healthy almost 8 full years after starting this diet and he remains on it almost year round.

[mr007]

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

And why do you feel this way? Keep in mind that I'm on one right now and feel great. A close friend of mine went on the diet before me and lost around 100lbs in a year while building a very muscular body. In that time, his blood sugar, cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure levels went from high (even dangerous) down to normal levels on this diet. He's still extremely healthy almost 8 full years after starting this diet and he remains on it almost year round.

That's awesome that you feel great and definitely good for your friend. But I would argue your friend had a horrible diet to begin with if he lost 100 lbs in a year while building a "very muscular body."

The major problem with low-carb diets is the fact that it isn't lack of carbs that is making you lose weight. It's lack of calories and for most people, lack of proper nutrition. Low carb diets deplete your glycogen levels in your muscles and liver.

Without turning this into a huge medical debate, lack of carbs do not promote healthy muscle growth. Much of the initial weight loss is actually due to loss of water weight (due to dehydration), and unhealthy muscle tissue loss as your body isn't getting the amount of calories it spends.

The results your friend has achieved (blood sugar, triglyceride level, etc) going down are the result of weight LOSS, not because he's on a low-carb diet.

A proper diet consits of healthy carbohydrates that supply you with the fiber and antioxidants that low carb diets simply can't provide. Add in to the fact that to maintain a "healthy looking" (notice I said healthy looking and not healthy) body, you must consume an enormous amount of fats to keep up the calorie levels that you must burn to have a physically appealing appearance.

The effects you get from a low-carb diet can be mimicked by simply eating healthy. You may not lose as much weight as fast, but you will get there, and you'll be able to maintain that weight while also having a healthy metabolism and overall well-being and energy. I don't see any way that it's possible with a low-carb diet where your body is basically in starvation mode.

The only time I would ever advocate a low-carb diet is if you're attempting to get completely shredded for a fitness competition and even then I would not be on it more than 1-2 weeks.

[mr007]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

****, I even do them twice a year and I agree.

and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money it's not for health reasons!

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by mr007

That's awesome that you feel great and definitely good for your friend. But I would argue your friend had a horrible diet to begin with if he lost 100 lbs in a year while building a "very muscular body."

I've never discussed his previous diet with him too much, but I do know he had two major knee injuries and that resulted in him gaining alot of weight.

The major problem with low-carb diets is the fact that it isn't lack of carbs that is making you lose weight.

No, the lack of carbs trains your body to burn fat for fuel. A low carb diet, if done properly, puts your body into a phase shift from a fat producing/storing machine to a fat burning machine.

It's lack of calories

The variation of the diet I'm on does not significantly reduce your calorie intake, and during the first 10-12 days you don't even worry about the calories.

and for most people, lack of proper nutrition.

As with most low carb diets, meat, fish, most veggies and dairy products are what you eat mostly. I don't see any problem with the nutrition as you shift more towards lean meats after 12 days and your Omega 3 intake is significantly increased.

Low carb diets deplete your glycogen levels in your muscles and liver.

I think you got this backwards. In that PDF I just sent TJ, QuietTiger and Iron Clady, there is an entire section talking about how the high fat/low carb diet preserves glycogen levels over a more conventional high carb/low fat diet. Also, you have the weekends where you can eat pretty much anything you want to help replenish those glycogen levels.

Without turning this into a huge medical debate, lack of carbs do not promote healthy muscle growth.

How do you figure that? The friend I mentioned before has 20" biceps and bench pressed just under 500lbs at his peak, while on this diet of course. Also, the doctor who designed this was a world champion body builder and power lifter. I seriously doubt that could accomplish those feats on a diet that is not promoting healthy muscle growth.

Much of the initial weight loss is actually due to loss of water weight (due to dehydration)

That's damn near impossible with the amounts of water you consume on this diet. There is no dehydration taking place.

and unhealthy muscle tissue loss as your body isn't getting the amount of calories it spends.

That is what happens on a diet where you simply create a calorie deficit, not what happens on a high fat/low carb diet. One of the most basic principles of the low carb diets is stopping your body from burning up your muscle to use as fuel.

The results your friend has achieved (blood sugar, triglyceride level, etc) going down are the result of weight LOSS, not because he's on a low-carb diet.

The results come from both the diet and the simple process of weight loss. Obviously if you lose weight, that only will make you healthy. However, the diet alone is going to drop blood sugar levels because you aren't taking in those unhealthy sugary foods or lots of carbs and triglycerides are naturally burned off for fuel.

A proper diet consits of healthy carbohydrates that supply you with the fiber and antioxidants that low carb diets simply can't provide.

fibers, antioxidants and vitamins/minerals can be taken through supplements while on the low carb diet. Fiber is essential on this diet.

Add in to the fact that to maintain a "healthy looking" (notice I said healthy looking and not healthy) body, you must consume an enormous amount of fats to keep up the calorie levels that you must burn to have a physically appealing appearance.

If done properly you will be taking in the healthy, unsaturated fats. The "bad" saturated and trans fats will be kept to a minimum. Again, in that PDF I sent out, there is a whole section dedicated to the understanding of the differences between the two.

The effects you get from a low-carb diet can be mimicked by simply eating healthy. You may not lose as much weight as fast, but you will get there

How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift. There are really only two ways to lose weight. You create a calorie deficit and burn more calories than you take in (i.e. the typical low fat diet) or you create an environment where you body burns fat for fuel, which is what you accomplish on the high fat/low carb diet.

and you'll be able to maintain that weight while also having a healthy metabolism and overall well-being and energy. I don't see any way that it's possible with a low-carb diet where your body is basically in starvation mode.

Again, remember that friend of mine? The one with 20 inch biceps and bench pressed nearly 500lbs? He lost that weight almost 8 years ago and stays on this diet nearly year round. He's also almost 40 years old and extremely healthy (he gets regular physicals).

And this diet is most certainly NOT a starvation diet. In fact, you're eating every 2-3 hours with regular breakfast, lunch and dinners.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by mr007

and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money it's not for health reasons!

Sheer vanity

Nailed it here:

The only time I would ever advocate a low-carb diet is if you're attempting to get completely shredded for a fitness competition and even then I would not be on it more than 1-2 weeks.

2 weeks of a full keto state without any carb up days. Not for fitness competitions, but to rush shedding any extra weight.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I've lost more weight faster on low-carb diets than at any other time during my 13-month Bodyssey.

And every pound of it has stayed off.

For the record I'm on my third variation now. I did the GM diet, the fat flush diet, and now the V-Diet. They have all been great "boosts."

[Bob's your Information Minister]

In fact, I may give this another run after my V-Diet is over. The foods on this are going to be like a banquet after a month of protein shakes, supplements and 4 solid meals.

Day One All fruits except bananas. Your first day will consist of all the fruits you want. It is strongly suggested that you consume lots of melons the first day. Especially watermelon and a loupe. If you limit your fruit consumption to melons, your chances of losing three lbs. on first day are very good.

Day Two All vegetables. You are encouraged to eat until you are stuffed with all the raw or cooked vegetables of your choice. There is no limit on the amount or type. For your complex carbohydrate, you will start day two with a large baked potato for breakfast. You may top the potato with one pat of butter.

Day Three A mixture of fruits and vegetables of your choice. Any amount, any quantity. No bananas yet. No potatoes today.

Day Four Bananas and milk. Today you will eat as many as eight bananas and drink three glasses of milk. This will be combined with the special soup which may be eaten in limited quantities.

Day Five Today is feast day. You will eat beef and tomatoes. Eat two 10 oz. portions of lean beef. Hamburger is OK. Combine this with six whole tomatoes. On day five you must increase your water intake by one quart. This is to cleanse your system of the uric acid you will be producing.

Day Six Beef and vegetables. Today you may eat an unlimited amount of beef and vegetables. Eat to your hearts content.

Day Seven Today your food intake will consist of brown rice, fruit juices and all the vegetables you care to consume.

[mr007]

My comments in red

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

No, the lack of carbs trains your body to burn fat for fuel. A low carb diet, if done properly, puts your body into a phase shift from a fat producing/storing machine to a fat burning machine.

The same can be done at a lower risk using proper nutrition.

The variation of the diet I'm on does not significantly reduce your calorie intake, and during the first 10-12 days you don't even worry about the calories.

I have a problem advocating any diet that says don't even worry about calories. I'm more worried about getting enough calories with a low-carb diet.

As with most low carb diets, meat, fish, most veggies and dairy products are what you eat mostly. I don't see any problem with the nutrition as you shift more towards lean meats after 12 days and your Omega 3 intake is significantly increased.

Even with the increase in Omega 3's I find it difficult to believe you can achieve 2500+ healthy calories with that type of diet.

I think you got this backwards. In that PDF

I'll stop your quote right there. I don't care about some PDF that is a sellers guide for a low-carb diet.

How do you figure that? The friend I mentioned before has 20" biceps and bench pressed just under 500lbs at his peak, while on this diet of course.

Steroids are a hell of a thing.....

That is what happens on a diet where you simply create a calorie deficit, not what happens on a high fat/low carb diet. One of the most basic principles of the low carb diets is stopping your body from burning up your muscle to use as fuel.

The burning of muscles and loss of weight from lack of water in your body are precisely what happens with a high fat/low carb diet. Also, caloric deficits are not what burns fat.

The results come from both the diet and the simple process of weight loss. Obviously if you lose weight, that only will make you healthy. However, the diet alone is going to drop blood sugar levels because you aren't taking in those unhealthy sugary foods or lots of carbs and triglycerides are naturally burned off for fuel.

What do lots of carbs have to do with being unhealthy?

fibers, antioxidants and vitamins/minerals can be taken through supplements while on the low carb diet. Fiber is essential on this diet.

I'm all for supplements. But supplements should be used to compliment a naturally healthy diet.

If done properly you will be taking in the healthy, unsaturated fats. The "bad" saturated and trans fats will be kept to a minimum. Again, in that PDF I sent out, there is a whole section dedicated to the understanding of the differences between the two.

this is not different than a healthy diet with plenty of carbs. And again, where do you get all the extra calories required of an athlete from?

How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift.

You are confusing high amounts of carbs being "so prevalent today" with the high amounts of carbs that are natural to a healthy diet.

There are really only two ways to lose weight. You create a calorie deficit and burn more calories than you take in (i.e. the typical low fat diet) or you create an environment where you body burns fat for fuel, which is what you accomplish on the high fat/low carb diet.

That statement is ludicrous. You burn fat for fuel performing anaerobic exercise. High fat/low carb diets do not assist with this type of exercise as your primary stores of energy are carbs.

Again, remember that friend of mine? The one with 20 inch biceps and bench pressed nearly 500lbs? He lost that weight almost 8 years ago and stays on this diet nearly year round. He's also almost 40 years old and extremely healthy (he gets regular physicals).

I'd love to see your friends metabolic panel (they don't provide these in physicals). It seems we are both pretty set in what we believe. My beliefs are based on multiple medical sources as well as personal experience. Also, I am 6% body fat and have been for the past 3 years.

[TheReverend]

Anyone see Watchmen? Inverting the colors and I look just Dr Manhattan, lol

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'd have to see your dingus to judge.

[TheReverend]

Nice try, Clayton.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Nice try, Clayton.

[Florida_Bronco]

The same can be done at a lower risk using proper nutrition.

Not as efficiently and quickly.

I have a problem advocating any diet that says don't even worry about calories. I'm more worried about getting enough calories with a low-carb diet.

You're only not worrying about calories for the first 10-12 days. After that you do pay some attention to it.

Even with the increase in Omega 3's I find it difficult to believe you can achieve 2500+ healthy calories with that type of diet.

Believe it.

I'll stop your quote right there. I don't care about some PDF that is a sellers guide for a low-carb diet.

So you don't care about a PDF written by a doctor who holds an honors degree in biological science along with his medical degree and was a world champion body builder and power lifter?

Seems to me this guy just might know a little bit about what he's talking about.

Steroids are a hell of a thing...

So let me get this straight. You're accusing my friend of using steroids? Trust me, you really don't want to go down that road as I know my friend well enough to say with absolute confidence that is not the case.

Oh, and the funny thing about this is, if you read the background of the diet, is that it came out right around the time the dangers of anabolic steroids. Dr. Di Pasquale was brought on by both the World Wrestling Federation and the World Bodybuilding Federation to provide a viable alternative to the anabolic steroids...hence the diet/books that resulted.

So yeah, throwing the steroid accusation at a system meant to replace them is kinda silly, don't you think?

What do lots of carbs have to do with being unhealthy?

Carbs alone are not unhealthy. It's the body being adapted to burn carbs for energy while storing body fat that is unhealthy.

I'm all for supplements. But supplements should be used to compliment a naturally healthy diet.

Then what is your issue with this diet? The only supplements needed are whey protein, fiber, a typical multivitamin and some fish and flax seed oil.

this is not different than a healthy diet with plenty of carbs.

Sure it is, and it's very simple. Taking in high amounts of carbs does not allow your body to go into the fat burning phase shift.

And again, where do you get all the extra calories required of an athlete from?

During the fat loss phase of the diet you have all the energy you need in stored up body fat. Once you've reached your optimum weight, then you can increase carbs/calories as needed for any athletics. This diet does include a "bulking phase" for those who wish to use it.

How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift.

You are confusing high amounts of carbs being "so prevalent today" with the high amounts of carbs that are natural to a healthy diet.

That statement is ludicrous. You burn fat for fuel performing anaerobic exercise. High fat/low carb diets do not assist with this type of exercise as your primary stores of energy are carbs.

No, it's not ludicrous. A normal person's body is going to look to glucose and carbs as it's first sources of energy, and once it finally gets to burning fat, you're burning muscle off too and the body is not nearly as efficient burning off the fat as it should be.

That's the whole point of this diet. Teaching your body to burn fat as it's primary source of fuel and doing it faster and safer than other diets and maintaining lean muscle.

I'd love to see your friends metabolic panel (they don't provide these in physicals).

I'll have to ask him if he's ever had that done. In the meantime, what would it be looking for that would be a cause for concern?

It seems we are both pretty set in what we believe. My beliefs are based on multiple medical sources

As are mine. As I mentioned, the doctor who designed this diet is world class athlete, licensed physician and overall very qualified.

as well as personal experience.

Again, same here. I've seen the results my good friends have had on this diet as well as the results (or lack of) some have had on different, more conventional diets. I'm new to the diet of course, but feeling good so far and it's working just as well as it did for my friends.

Also, I am 6% body fat and have been for the past 3 years.

Very impressive, and congratulations...but I must ask, where were you at when you first started?

[Taco John]

I don't have any doubts that low carbohydrate diets work to speed up fat burning. My doubts are in their long term affects on the brain over prolonged use of them.

I may consider a V-diet cycle at some time, but not until I'm sufficiently satisfied that I know how to eat properly, can cycle on, and when I cycle off have a soft and healthy landing.

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I don't have any doubts that low carbohydrate diets work to speed up fat burning. My doubts are in their long term affects on the brain over prolonged use of them.

I may consider a V-diet cycle at some time, but not until I'm sufficiently satisfied that I know how to eat properly, can cycle on, and when I cycle off have a soft and healthy landing.

In that PDF I sent you, read Chapter Two, section "The Metabolic Advantage." That very first paragraph there explains how adenosine triphospate (aka "brain food") can still be produced on a low carb diet.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The V-Diet includes a 2-week transition period.

I'm glad you're considering it. Do your research here. Lots of GREAT examples and the guy who invented it dispenses free advice by the truckload.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...s=forumsNavTop

[mr007]

Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco

In that PDF I sent you, read Chapter Two, section "The Metabolic Advantage." That very first paragraph there explains how adenosine triphospate (aka "brain food") can still be produced on a low carb diet.

Ok Florida, humor me, I'd like to take a look at this PDF. Maybe it's some weird version of a low-carb diet I haven't seen. The ones I've seen are nonsense.

I was around 25% body fat when I first started working out, which was shocking to me because I thought I was in decent shape. I didn't get to 6% until I began digging deep into nutrition and effects of different types of diet on the body. The only diet I've been on that has allowed me to keep my energy levels, still be an athlete, and maintain the physique I've come to love is one that has a healthy mix of whole grains, lean meats, healthy fatty meats (salmon/etc), and healthy fats (nuts, avocados, etc).

I'll definitely be open about reading the PDF your friend put together. I agree with you that you won't lose as much weight as fast as with the low-carb diet. But my argument would be that the weight you're losing from the low-carb diet has more consequences associated with it. Send your doc my way and I'll take a look at it and let you know what I think and be as unbiased as possible.

[mr007]

Thanks for the doc, the guy actually seems pretty damned intelligent on what he's talking about and doesn't go for a one glove fits all solution. Definitely different from the low-carb diets I've seen and I'm gonna give it a try and report results here.

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by mr007

Thanks for the doc, the guy actually seems pretty damned intelligent on what he's talking about and doesn't go for a one glove fits all solution. Definitely different from the low-carb diets I've seen and I'm gonna give it a try and report results here.

Glad to hear it. If nothing else, you deserve props for keeping an open mind on it.

I showed this to Buff and TJ too. It appears that Dr. Pasquale has some kind of relationship to the Broncos and/or Rich Tuten.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md3.htm

[TheReverend]

I'll be closely watching the reviews from everyone. It'll be 3-4 weeks before I can try it myself.