Ed Hartwell

[ukbroncosfan]

Meanwhile, if and when middle linebacker Al Wilson is cut or traded, the Broncos may show interest in former Atlanta linebacker Ed Hartwell. He would have a chance to compete for a starting job if signed.

Wilson's departure from the Broncos seems likely. He nearly was traded to the Giants for a third-round draft pick last Friday, but he failed a physical because of neck and back issues. However, an independent specialist has cleared Wilson.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5543446

Ed Hartwell would play MLB and come off the field on third down. Hartwell's strength is stopping the run. This move makes more sense than moving DJ Williams to MLB. Hartwell is coming off two injury plagued seasons in Atlanta and I'm guessing he would sign a one year contract to raise his stock.

I would prefer to see Al Wilson traded or take a pay cut. I won't be happy if he is released since we were so close to getting a third round pick. I am still mad we didn't get a fourth for Plummer.

[Atlas]

Yeah, I don't understand why the Broncos are writing off Wilson. I watched the game between Denver and Baltimore this year and Wilson was just great in that game. It sounds like maybe Wilson is just refusing to take a paycut.

Very strange.

[HEAV]

Hartwell is a 3-4 LB (IMO) not suited for the 4-3.

As for AW and not taking the paycut. It's about pride. Many players (Eddie George) balk at paycuts from current teams and get cut, only to sign with a new team for money around the paycut.

AW feels Denver owes him for years of service.

[ukbroncosfan]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Yeah, I don't understand why the Broncos are writing off Wilson. I watched the game between Denver and Baltimore this year and Wilson was just great in that game. It sounds like maybe Wilson is just refusing to take a paycut.

Very strange.

I understand why the Broncos want to trade Wilson, i just hope they get something for him. The Dolphins wanted a third for Randy McMichael and got nothing for him and the player they replaced him with is worse than McMichael.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by HEAV

Hartwell is a 3-4 LB (IMO) not suited for the 4-3.

As for AW and not taking the paycut. It's about pride. Many players (Eddie George) balk at paycuts from current teams and get cut, only to sign with a new team for money around the paycut.

AW feels Denver owes him for years of service.

Doesn't the Ravens run a 4-3? THat is where Hartwell made his name.

[Drek]

Originally Posted by HEAV

Hartwell is a 3-4 LB (IMO) not suited for the 4-3.

As for AW and not taking the paycut. It's about pride. Many players (Eddie George) balk at paycuts from current teams and get cut, only to sign with a new team for money around the paycut.

AW feels Denver owes him for years of service.

Hartwell's career season came filling in for Ray Lewis when the Ravens were still a 4-3 front.

He'd be a great add to compete at MLB. Move DJ back to ROLB, Gold to B, and let Hartwell, Webster, Vaughn, and a first day rookie (ideally Quincy Black) fight it out for the MLB job.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I think the Ravens were 4-3 when Hartwell was there... they are now in some strange Buddy Ryan defense (seems to be working for them.) I really think the best possible scenario is that Wilson stays for this year at least. He may come back and prove he is still a beast and all sides will be happy. He may come back and prove that he is overpaid and we either restructure him or he moves on. I think his stock is too low to move him this year.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Drek

Hartwell's career season came filling in for Ray Lewis when the Ravens were still a 4-3 front.

He'd be a great add to compete at MLB. Move DJ back to ROLB, Gold to B, and let Hartwell, Webster, Vaughn, and a first day rookie (ideally Quincy Black) fight it out for the MLB job.

I think the problem with this plan is that in Bates' scheme, the MLB is THE key playmaker among the LBs, and in this senario we would be putting our least capable playmaker in the middle. I think that is why they are flirting with the idea of putting DJ at MLB; talentwise, he has intriguing playmaking potential at that spot.

[fontaine]

So we're supposed to trade Al because he's older and has all this wear and tear, but potentially replace him with Ed Hartwell who hasn't been healthy or played more than 8 games since 2004?



Guess it doesn't matter now. The FO is in all probability going to get rid of Wilson one way or another.

DJ better be ready to step up because he'll be seeing more coverage responsibilities.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by fontaine

So we're supposed to trade Al because he's older and has all this wear and tear, but potentially replace him with Ed Hartwell who hasn't been healthy or played more than 8 games since 2004?

The difference, if that is in fact the plan, would be Wilson's $5.2 million salary versus Hartwell who can probably be had at this point for an incentive laden one year deal. I'm sure they'd be happy to keep Al under the latter terms.

[milehighiniowacity]

I just hate to see Al Wilson go. While not flashy he is the heart and sole of our defense IMO. They guy still fly's around the field. The lingering neck injury may be bigger then what we know and this is the reason for the discussion. It doesn't look like we are going to get anything out of a trade.

[Traveler]

Pass on Hartwell. All he has done since coming to ATL is collect paychecks. Guy has almost as much bad luck medically as Courtney Brown. There has got to be a better OLB out there.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

The difference, if that is in fact the plan, would be Wilson's $5.2 million salary versus Hartwell who can probably be had at this point for an incentive laden one year deal. I'm sure they'd be happy to keep Al under the latter terms.

Well we could save on Champ Bailey's $7.5million salary next year and sign lenny walls for an incentive one year deal with that reasoning!

Ed Harwell and his ruptured achilles/bad knee would be mincemeat behind our mediocre DL.

I'm not saying let's keep Al or dump him. I don't know all the facts behind the scenes, but what I am sure of is that with the names we've heard so far (Webster, Hartwell, Vaughn, rookie) we're going to find out real quick how special guys like LT/Larry Johnson are.

Not to mention Wilson's coverage responbilities to protect our safeties.

I'm just going by on what I saw in the niner's game without Al when we gave up more yards to Gore than any other RB that year.

[Gcver2ver3]

Originally Posted by HEAV

Hartwell is a 3-4 LB (IMO) not suited for the 4-3.

As for AW and not taking the paycut. It's about pride. Many players (Eddie George) balk at paycuts from current teams and get cut, only to sign with a new team for money around the paycut.

AW feels Denver owes him for years of service.

Hartwell will be fine in a 4-3 alignment.....

But I'm concerned about not getting anything for a 29 yr old pro-bowl linebacker....

With the failed physical getting out & us reportly ready to take a 3rd rounder for him...all of a sudden his stock has dropped...its stupid...the guy is All-pro for crying out loud...

I think we could've handled this better

[Drek]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

I think the problem with this plan is that in Bates' scheme, the MLB is THE key playmaker among the LBs, and in this senario we would be putting our least capable playmaker in the middle. I think that is why they are flirting with the idea of putting DJ at MLB; talentwise, he has intriguing playmaking potential at that spot.

I think thats a poor portrayal of Bates' defensive system. In Miami he made Zack Thomas' career, in only one season with Green Bay Nick Barnett had a career year. He makes MLBs look elite even if they're just "good". Hartwell is exactly the type of LB Bates would want in the middle for first and second downs. He's got above average sideline to sideline speed and he's a powerful wrap up tackler.

DJ has no experience calling defensive shifts and by most accounts isn't really the type of player who'd take quickly to that role. Hartwell is experienced at doing that.

Short of DJ moving over any MLB we have is going to come out on nickel downs, so we need a guy who can handle running downs first and foremost. Hartwell is great at that plus he's big and strong so he'd cope with our DT weaknesses better than most other MLB options.

I love Al but if we're given the choice between Hartwell for $2M or Wilson for over $6M, when either one is off the field in nickel downs, I'd rather save the money and be more flexible in the future.

It'd be awesome to keep Al but he's got to step forward and take a pay cut for that to happen.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by fontaine

Well we could save on Champ Bailey's $7.5million salary next year and sign lenny walls for an incentive one year deal with that reasoning!

Difference is that Champ is a relatively healthy player coming off probably his best season. Al is beat up and coming off a year where the staff concluding he was not worth the salary he is on the books for in '07.

Ed Harwell and his ruptured achilles/bad knee would be mincemeat behind our mediocre DL.

It's easy to place all the blame on the DL, that Al would be A-OK behind a better line, but I find it hard to believe that we on a message board consider this possible contingency, but the staff did not in their more detailed evaluations. They've obviously concluded that Al is a deteriorating player not worth the salary he's scheduled to make. Hartwell is one option, but I suspect the idea here is to be able to clear out money so that areas like DL can be more adequately addressed.

Not to mention Wilson's coverage responbilities to protect our safeties.

Legit concern here. Hopefully, we will draft a more legit coverage safety to mitigate this potential concern.

I'm just going by on what I saw in the niner's game without Al when we gave up more yards to Gore than any other RB that year.

The run D in the second half of the season was dismal even with Al in the lineup. That problem did not suddenly appear against SF.

[broncswin]

oh hell no to Hartwell, this guy is closer to ending his career than wilson is with a bad back and a history of neck problems. This is the craziest situation I have heard in a while. We go from having one of the best lb crews in football, to now settling for a Hartwell type to play in the middle. Why don't we just put a call into the Crush and see if they have anyone available, we'll just trade wilson straight across.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Drek

I think thats a poor portrayal of Bates' defensive system. In Miami he made Zack Thomas' career, in only one season with Green Bay Nick Barnett had a career year. He makes MLBs look elite even if they're just "good".

I think it's an accurate portrayal and that you are short-changing the abilities of guys like Thomas and Barnett, who have had success without Bates.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Difference is that Champ is a relatively healthy player coming off probably his best season. Al is beat up and coming off a year where the staff concluding he was not worth the salary he is on the books for in '07.

It's easy to place all the blame on the DL, that Al would be A-OK behind a better line, but I find it hard to believe that we on a message board consider this possible contingency, but the staff did not in their more detailed evaluations. They've obviously concluded that Al is a deteriorating player not worth the salary he's scheduled to make. Hartwell is one option, but I suspect the idea here is to be able to clear out money so that areas like DL can be more adequately addressed.

I agree that we need to address DL but seriously, how much money do we need for that? There isn't a marquee DL available now. The only guys we're going to get at DL are in the draft which falls into the rookie pool and Sundquist already said they have cap space set aside for that.

I don't think this is about salary cap space. I think you are right that Bates and the FO considered that Al is expendable and chose to head in that direction.

Now, whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen. Given that our scheme puts in so much emphasis on the MLB (defensive calls, coverage, 3 down player) we either find a guy that can do that (not likely) or we're heading into the same scheme as Bates where the MLB is a two down player and comes off in the nickel package.

I think that's what happened. If Bates is installing his scheme then we don't need Al to play all downs and in coverage and given his recent injuries/age the FO decided he was expendeable given his salary cap. They probably asked him to take a pay cut and Al refused given the rich offseason so they decided to move him.

I have real doubts as to whether the defense can transition smoothly in one offseason to this new scheme, given our average front four, but what the hell, we couldn't find enough quality DL to fit our previous scheme so back to the drawing board.

[Hoosier Bronco]

How about the FO focusing on redoing Al's deal instead of cutting or trading? Now that he is damaged goods because of the "failed" physical, let's try to use that to our advantage and pay him accordingly with how he played last year? I would venture that he is still in the upper 3rd or so (around 10th) of MLB's in the league. Why wouldn't we give him a chance to succeed in the new Bates' system?

[HEAV]

Hart has played in the 3-4 the last 5 years.

The Ravens went 3-4 in 2002 when Marvin Lewis left for the DC job with the Skins. Mike Nolan ran the 3-4, so Hart played 3-4 from 02-06. He only had one year in a 4-3.


And yes I'm worried about his injury factor 15 games the last two years.