Jim Bates' First Move: Cut the Heart out of the Defense - The Orange Mane

epicSocialism4tw · 03-28-2007, 12:33 AM

Do you approve?

Jim Bates' first significant change to the defense appears to be getting Al Wilson out of town as quickly as possible.

So far, it has done nothing for the Broncos outside of jumble up the front office and the locker room. I would label it a considerable failure up to this point.

Al Wilson is a Bronco. He's put in his time here. He's played hurt and carried the defense for years. Is this the way that you fix the team? By throwing our warriors under the bus without even getting anything in return?

shakenbake · 03-28-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Do you approve?

Jim Bates' first significant change to the defense appears to be getting Al Wilson out of town as quickly as possible.

So far, it has done nothing for the Broncos outside of jumble up the front office and the locker room. I would label it a considerable failure up to this point.

Al Wilson is a Bronco. He's put in his time here. He's played hurt and carried the defense for years. Is this the way that you fix the team? By throwing our warriors under the bus without even getting anything in return?

I approve. I don't think Al Wilson is a "playmaker" never has been. Sure he is a good if not very good MLB but he is getting older and has a really high salary. It's not like the "heart of our Defense" has led us to any championships.

s0phr0syne · 03-28-2007, 12:40 AM

Maybe cutting out an old, decrepit heart as you prepare for the transplant of younger, healthier heart is the only way to go about the business.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that Al falls under the criteria. The trade talks caught me by surprise, but ultimately, everything that gets done is being done for the sake of furthering the team, not setting it back. I'll wait to see where everything lands before a final judgement....

Eli_Cash · 03-28-2007, 12:44 AM

Dangling a captain in a failed trade is not what I expected after breaking the bank with the recent signings.

AW's not on the upside anymore and the salary is a problem.

Tough situation, but I think we could have been less wishy washy on the whole subject.

From his comments Wilson didn't seem to be offended.

Best case scenario he restructures and feels healthy, September through February.

Where's Terry Pierce when you need him?

footstepsfrom#27 · 03-28-2007, 12:44 AM

Bates...like his three predecessors in the post Superbowl era...will be shown the door in the next 2-3 years if his ideas fail to bail out Mike's drafting mistakes. Bates knows this so he's scrambling to put his mark on the defense as quickly as possible. It may not work, but at least it will look like he's been busy.

telluride · 03-28-2007, 12:46 AM

Calm down.

chaz · 03-28-2007, 12:48 AM

anyone who denies al's decline and the fact that he isn't the player he once was is only blinded by sentimental feelings....that is the reason shanahan has been so successful, his heart is stone when it comes to managing his team. its the only way to do it, glad bates is the same way if he is driving this.

ludo21 · 03-28-2007, 12:50 AM

"its just the nature of the business"

I like the fact that for once the D Cordinator is finally allowed some input on making decisions on the players he wants.

Jens1893 · 03-28-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludo21

"its just the nature of the business"

I like the fact that for once the D Cordinator is finally allowed some input on making decisions on the players he wants.

Definitely.

broncolife · 03-28-2007, 12:59 AM

I liked that they tried trading him. If we were trying to trade Al and he was performing like he did during his contract year, I would be pissed.But to me he has never improved since his contract year. In fact, I think he been declining ever since that year. He still a above average linebacker, so if we dont get value out of him we might as well keep him. I really dont want to see him cut, so hopefully he takes a paycut. So if Al comes back and has a decent year are we going to try and trade him next year?

Killericon · 03-28-2007, 01:07 AM

Do we know if it's Jim Bates? I mean, Maybe it's just Shanahan, or maybe Sundquist, or maybe they've actually overspent, or maybe his injury actually is that bad, or maybe Al's the one perpetrating this whole thing, and he's just publicly saying that he wants to stay to save face?

We can't know, we can't say. All I know for sure is that we know next to nothing, just like Shanahan wants. I'm not going to judge Bates until i see his product on the field, but I tell you this much; It does not sound like Shanahan or Sundquist to give their newly hired defensive mastermind(If you can call him that) enough leeway to trade away a guy like Wilson.

Garcia Bronco · 03-28-2007, 01:07 AM

It's time for a change.

NFLBRONCO · 03-28-2007, 01:11 AM

Lets get started on revamping D. AL at best will last 2 yrs max anyways.

Kaylore · 03-28-2007, 01:12 AM

We haven't even had a draft yet. If at the end of the year we're better than last year, then it was the right move. If we're the same or worse than last year, it was a good move. Too many pieces to put in place, right now.

epicSocialism4tw · 03-28-2007, 01:18 AM

If the goal is to use Al's money to get a clue-chip lineman, then I am all for this move.

On the other hand, any other move is a lateral move and is not worth the hassle of causing so much change in the culture of the defense.

Taco John · 03-28-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killericon

It does not sound like Shanahan or Sundquist to give their newly hired defensive mastermind(If you can call him that) enough leeway to trade away a guy like Wilson.

hh... Yes it does.

Shanahan didn't fire Coyer and Bring in Bates to sit on his thumbs and hope things work out for the best. Bates is here to put his mark on this team. Nothing on defense is happening without the advice and consent of Jim Bates. Nothing.

watermock · 03-28-2007, 01:27 AM

What has the wisdom of baby Zee told you?

footstepsfrom#27 · 03-28-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

hh... Yes it does.

Shanahan didn't fire Coyer and Bring in Bates to sit on his thumbs and hope things work out for the best. Bates is here to put his mark on this team. Nothing on defense is happening without the advice and consent of Jim Bates. Nothing.

I recall hearing that about Ray Rhodes too.

epicSocialism4tw · 03-28-2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I recall hearing that about Ray Rhodes too.

It seems as though Greg Robinson was the last coordinator that we had that actually left a noticeable impact on the defense. Everyone since Greg has implemented essentially the same type of scheme/personnel with the same mediocre result.

Crushaholic · 03-28-2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli_Cash

Where's Terry Pierce when you need him?

He was actually with Houston from January of '06 and cut during training camp. Maybe Kubiak knows of his whereabouts...

cutthemdown · 03-28-2007, 02:25 AM

people were pissed when mike harden got cut also. that atwater kid was pretty good though. dj williams needs to be on the field more. this does that.

DBroncos4life · 03-28-2007, 02:56 AM

Who in the hell is going to get the money we save from Al? Not one player out there will mean more to us then Al. Its one thing if he can't play again, but just to save some money makes this move gay.

OrangeShadow · 03-28-2007, 06:45 AM

its called a buisness for a reason

Atlas · 03-28-2007, 07:51 AM

I think it might work out. Al has had a great career and it's not over. I think some reflection is in order for al people concerned. The defense needs to improve and Bates' ass is on the line so he is going to do what he thinks is best. I don't see how cutting Wilson and saving $1.5 mil is going to make Denver a better team, all it does is create another hole.

chrisp · 03-28-2007, 08:10 AM

Why does everyone just assume that this is 100% down to Bates? If it was a cap move (as has been widely suggested) then it is just as likely this has come from Shanny, Sundquist or Bowlen.

Now it might be down to Bate's reccomendation or it may be a conclusion the FO reached before bates was hired. We actually have no way of knowing that right now. However the way a lot of people are talking here its as if Bates has gone on TV and said "Yeah Al sucks drum him out of town.."

As far as I'm aware Bates has been silent on this matter thus far.

View Poll Results: Have Bates/BBT Made a Mistake?
Yes. Al Wilson deserves better.	42	38.89%
Yes. They ruined any chance of getting value in return.	4	3.70%
No. Al needs to go.	6	5.56%
No. Give it some time.	56	51.85%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

03-28-2007, 12:33 AM	#1
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	Jim Bates' First Move: Cut the Heart out of the Defense Do you approve? Jim Bates' first significant change to the defense appears to be getting Al Wilson out of town as quickly as possible. So far, it has done nothing for the Broncos outside of jumble up the front office and the locker room. I would label it a considerable failure up to this point. Al Wilson is a Bronco. He's put in his time here. He's played hurt and carried the defense for years. Is this the way that you fix the team? By throwing our warriors under the bus without even getting anything in return?

03-28-2007, 12:59 AM	#10
broncolife Master masturbator! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 3,395	I liked that they tried trading him. If we were trying to trade Al and he was performing like he did during his contract year, I would be pissed.But to me he has never improved since his contract year. In fact, I think he been declining ever since that year. He still a above average linebacker, so if we dont get value out of him we might as well keep him. I really dont want to see him cut, so hopefully he takes a paycut. So if Al comes back and has a decent year are we going to try and trade him next year? Last edited by broncolife; 03-28-2007 at 01:05 AM..

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03-28-2007, 12:40 AM	#3
s0phr0syne Symbiotic Absorb and Redirect Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,592 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Maybe cutting out an old, decrepit heart as you prepare for the transplant of younger, healthier heart is the only way to go about the business. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that Al falls under the criteria. The trade talks caught me by surprise, but ultimately, everything that gets done is being done for the sake of furthering the team, not setting it back. I'll wait to see where everything lands before a final judgement....

03-28-2007, 12:44 AM	#4
Eli_Cash Deep Circus Boognish Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bristol, CT Posts: 206	Dangling a captain in a failed trade is not what I expected after breaking the bank with the recent signings. AW's not on the upside anymore and the salary is a problem. Tough situation, but I think we could have been less wishy washy on the whole subject. From his comments Wilson didn't seem to be offended. Best case scenario he restructures and feels healthy, September through February. Where's Terry Pierce when you need him?

03-28-2007, 12:44 AM	#5
footstepsfrom#27 helmet to helmet hitter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 16,117 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joe Mays	Bates...like his three predecessors in the post Superbowl era...will be shown the door in the next 2-3 years if his ideas fail to bail out Mike's drafting mistakes. Bates knows this so he's scrambling to put his mark on the defense as quickly as possible. It may not work, but at least it will look like he's been busy.

03-28-2007, 12:46 AM	#6
telluride Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,557 Adopt-a-Bronco: --Rulon!--	Calm down.

03-28-2007, 12:48 AM	#7
chaz highly touted recruit Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,455 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mr. Bruton	anyone who denies al's decline and the fact that he isn't the player he once was is only blinded by sentimental feelings....that is the reason shanahan has been so successful, his heart is stone when it comes to managing his team. its the only way to do it, glad bates is the same way if he is driving this.

03-28-2007, 12:50 AM	#8
ludo21 RIP Darrent Williams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 17,911 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Ernster	"its just the nature of the business" I like the fact that for once the D Cordinator is finally allowed some input on making decisions on the players he wants.

03-28-2007, 01:07 AM	#11
Killericon YES A DT!!!!!! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From Calgary, in Halifax for School Posts: 7,730 Adopt-a-Bronco: watermock	Do we know if it's Jim Bates? I mean, Maybe it's just Shanahan, or maybe Sundquist, or maybe they've actually overspent, or maybe his injury actually is that bad, or maybe Al's the one perpetrating this whole thing, and he's just publicly saying that he wants to stay to save face? We can't know, we can't say. All I know for sure is that we know next to nothing, just like Shanahan wants. I'm not going to judge Bates until i see his product on the field, but I tell you this much; It does not sound like Shanahan or Sundquist to give their newly hired defensive mastermind(If you can call him that) enough leeway to trade away a guy like Wilson.

03-28-2007, 01:07 AM	#12
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 45,991 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	It's time for a change.

03-28-2007, 01:11 AM	#13
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,391	Lets get started on revamping D. AL at best will last 2 yrs max anyways.

03-28-2007, 01:12 AM	#14
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,061 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	We haven't even had a draft yet. If at the end of the year we're better than last year, then it was the right move. If we're the same or worse than last year, it was a good move. Too many pieces to put in place, right now.

03-28-2007, 01:18 AM	#15
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	If the goal is to use Al's money to get a clue-chip lineman, then I am all for this move. On the other hand, any other move is a lateral move and is not worth the hassle of causing so much change in the culture of the defense.

03-28-2007, 01:27 AM	#17
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	What has the wisdom of baby Zee told you?

03-28-2007, 02:25 AM	#21
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,498	people were pissed when mike harden got cut also. that atwater kid was pretty good though. dj williams needs to be on the field more. this does that.

03-28-2007, 02:56 AM	#22
DBroncos4life Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU Why yes, that is Bacon Bacon. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The wrong side of right. Posts: 26,584	Who in the hell is going to get the money we save from Al? Not one player out there will mean more to us then Al. Its one thing if he can't play again, but just to save some money makes this move gay.

03-28-2007, 06:45 AM	#23
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	its called a buisness for a reason

03-28-2007, 07:51 AM	#24
Atlas Draft Defense Early&Often Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18,526	I think it might work out. Al has had a great career and it's not over. I think some reflection is in order for al people concerned. The defense needs to improve and Bates' ass is on the line so he is going to do what he thinks is best. I don't see how cutting Wilson and saving $1.5 mil is going to make Denver a better team, all it does is create another hole.

03-28-2007, 08:10 AM	#25
chrisp Friend of the unsung Not into the football......yet Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 1,300 Adopt-a-Bronco: Danny Trevathan	Why does everyone just assume that this is 100% down to Bates? If it was a cap move (as has been widely suggested) then it is just as likely this has come from Shanny, Sundquist or Bowlen. Now it might be down to Bate's reccomendation or it may be a conclusion the FO reached before bates was hired. We actually have no way of knowing that right now. However the way a lot of people are talking here its as if Bates has gone on TV and said "Yeah Al sucks drum him out of town.." As far as I'm aware Bates has been silent on this matter thus far.