Pat Tillman -- and the myth of the hero

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Really, where?

I cannot give out that information as it would directly link to my identity. But rest assured...I am published.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Really, where?

........on the tile wall in the ladies restroom at the gas station!

[ak1971]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

........on the tile wall in the ladies restroom at the gas station!

thats the best place.....

Here I sit buns a flexin...tried to...never mind

[alkemical]

I have some of my songs published..... lol

garcia - humans don't evolve in terms of evolution in terms of darwanism if you don't believe in darwinsim - i'm not going to hijack the thread - but really are we today any smarter than say... greeks/romans/aegyptians? I'd think not. They used a different technology than what we have is all.

[TailgateNut]

.......Garcia's poetry.....as published in stall #2


"stranded on a toilet bowl,
what do you do when you're stranded,
and you ain't got a roll,
To prove you're a man,
youmust wipe it with you're hand,
stranded on a toilet bowl....."

[The Lone Bolt]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

A secret society called the Hairianuses are actually the cause for the iraq war. In fact, they invented globalization, weaving an asphyxiating web of debt and economic dependency of sovereign states upon Transantional financial institutions. They are the reason we are in Iraq people, WAKE UP. It is the doing of the Hairianusses, who seek to create the illusion that the US is punishing states for foolish defiance of the petro dollar while they slaugther innocent families! The news is littered with clues, OPEN YOUR EYES, who does this war really benefit? not the US! The Hairianusses!

As we, the deceived and ignorant public hear the fabricated tales of our compromised media, this secret power hungry group has taken over our country. They control the petro dollar, they incite world conflict and benefit from the illegal arms trade while millions of innocents die. They're the reason our country is in so much debt, over spending on defense, defense? HA! Look at our foreign policies! They are imperialistic! All so that we may be ruined!

The Hairianuses will stop at nothing until the ruin of the America! Don't yous SEEEEE? They are creating the impression that the US will stop at nothing untill they become the authoritative hegemon of the world!!! Meanwhile they finish laying out their final peice of the puzzel, the European Union, which is blatant destruction of statehood! European citizens protest to no avail of the weaking of the legislative power their elected officials hold. The small, wealthy, elitist group will eventually use the aggressive nature of the US, driven by their two spies - BUSH AND CHENEY to create a challenging alliance against NATO AND THE UN! Its already happening! Look at France and GermanY!!! They want to subject earth to their authoritative rule, and they will stop at nothing. Once such feat is accomplished, they will set out for their ultimate task to build a BIG HAIRY ANUS!

you can ignore my incoherent drivel, but I will continually repost it until you're all convinced the political atmosphere in todays world clearly points to the final end game of the BIG HAIR ANUS.

I'M CONVINCED!! ALL HAIL THE HAIRIANUSES!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

I cannot give out that information as it would directly link to my identity. But rest assured...I am published.

Ah, you mean you were just BSing, I get it.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

I have some of my songs published..... lol

garcia - humans don't evolve in terms of evolution in terms of darwanism if you don't believe in darwinsim - i'm not going to hijack the thread - but really are we today any smarter than say... greeks/romans/aegyptians? I'd think not. They used a different technology than what we have is all.

Well I would argue that technology is a part of that difference. Are we smarter? I don't know...I wasn't alive in then

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Ah, you mean you were just BSing, I get it.

I have been published...my work has appeared in several places.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Well I would argue that technology is a part of that difference. Are we smarter? I don't know...I wasn't alive in then

Duuuude - they had technology. Just not what we use. Come on man... Building world wonders that have lasted for what seems to be aeons, not to mention the mathematics, etc -

I mean, any civilization that can lay a foundation for the world using maths, sciences, astronomy, etc - so since you weren't alive back then - i guess the rest of it is kinda moot as well.....

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Duuuude - they had technology. Just not what we use. Come on man... Building world wonders that have lasted for what seems to be aeons, not to mention the mathematics, etc -

I mean, any civilization that can lay a foundation for the world using maths, sciences, astronomy, etc - so since you weren't alive back then - i guess the rest of it is kinda moot as well.....

Well...i think we're different...and I think we are better.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

I have been published...my work has appeared in several places.

What kind of work?

[sutoazul]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

I have some of my songs published..... lol

garcia - humans don't evolve in terms of evolution in terms of darwanism if you don't believe in darwinsim - i'm not going to hijack the thread - but really are we today any smarter than say... greeks/romans/aegyptians? I'd think not. They used a different technology than what we have is all.

dude of course we are a lot smater than greeks/romas/ enyptians.....
How many of those people knew or were able to to as much as you do today?? i.e.: read, do simple calculations in your head, multitask...etc..... it's just the little things. Some of The geniuses of the past, would be just merely above average today. And yes technology have a lot to do with this. Anyways... the fact of the matter is that we are evoluting every time, we don't see it because for our survival we do not need an extreme change so that one can notice it from generation to generation.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by sutoazul

dude of course we are a lot smater than greeks/romas/ enyptians.....
How many of those people knew or were able to to as much as you do today?? i.e.: read, do simple calculations in your head, multitask...etc..... it's just the little things. Some of The geniuses of the past, would be just merely above average today. And yes technology have a lot to do with this. Anyways... the fact of the matter is that we are evoluting every time, we don't see it because for our survival we do not need an extreme change so that one can notice it from generation to generation.

I don't believe we are at all.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Well...i think we're different...and I think we are better.

we aren't better till we can make concrete last as long as the romans...

[clarkster]

Originally Posted by Dutch

The polls show otherwise: approximately 70% of Americans now oppose Bush and his dirty war. A recent poll of US troops in Iraq shows that opposition to the war is even stronger among the GIs who are on the ground. 72% of them believe it is wrong and want it ended.

OK Gaff (how appropriate is that?),
Show me the links to those Polls. I want to know who took them, when, and where. You appear to have inflated those numbers by quite a bit. I won't speak to the "70% of Americans" comment, but I will address the "72% of GIs on the ground" portion. BS. Plain and simple. Maybe among reservists who were looking for the GI Bill and a job skill that never banked on a war, but most definitely not among active duty ground elements. Re-enlistments are up, and most of the guys I KNOW in-country voice more frustration over the same old garbage that we in the field always have...being away from home, missing The World, upper eschelon pukes having their heads up their collective posteriors and not listening to the grunts in the field, etc. Same old same old. As for the mission (establishing a democratic government), frustrated at the lack of progress...of course. Ready to get the F out tomorrow and watch it all come crumbling down.... F no.

The point of the above article is that Tillman, like all of the other dead US troops, threw their lives away for nothing.

The real point that matters is that good men and women of our armed forces have been accused of "throwing our lives away for nothing" by pacifist, isolationist, elitist psudo-intellectuals like you and your bed wetting buddy Mickey Z since the inception of this country. The good news for you is that honorable men and women in this country will continue to do so. That way you can continue to live in your perfect little America hating world.

If Iraq didn't get your undivided attention -- I promise you -- the next round will. Unless we can someone prevent it.


I prefer: If 9/11 didn't get your undivided attention--I promise you--an Iranian terror state controlling Nukes and Iraqi oil will. Unless we can somehow PREVENT it.

Semper Fi,
Dutch

nice- rack him. seriously though, i cant walk away from a thread like this, being the ignorant, right wing, war monger, blah blah blah that i am...

a few things id like to piggy back on- you can hate the war, the politics, the whatever you want, and i have no other answer, just like everyone else, however, one thing i do know, theres only one way to ensure the lives lost there are "wasted", leave without finishing the job.
but joe public says "who gives a ****" or " theyve been fighting for a billion years" and thats exactly why this country is going to hell. joe public and his hippie girlfriend dont know whats best for this country, and neither do i, however, i do know that someones life is better, over there, and thats cool if you ask me.

on a side note, i was watching a TV show the other day documenting the protest during some convention, people everywhere, burning flags, beating each other up, getting arrested, protesting GWB and "his war", and at one point the guy asked someone where the republicans an Bush supporters were at, to which he replied, probably at work. i thought to be funny, because as Im watching all these young people so intent on making their point, and i was thinking, dont these people work?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

we aren't better till we can make concrete last as long as the romans...

Well...I sit near a greek guy at work..and he swears they are better than the Romans ever were.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

What kind of work?

Work unique to my field of study...which at the time was ritual practices in Britain.

[ak1971]

I Support The Occupation Of Iraq, But I Don't Support Our Troops

The U.S. went to war in Iraq to remove an evil and dangerous political adversary from power. Now that we have done that, the American troops must remain in Iraq until the country is a fully functioning democracy, able to spark change throughout the entire Middle East. While I find this obvious, there are still a lot of people in our country who fail to grasp it. I support Bush-administration foreign-policy goals, but I stand firmly against the individual men and women on the ground in the Persian Gulf.

Yes, occupying Iraq does require troops, but they are there for one reason and one reason only: to carry out the orders of the U.S. Defense Department. As far as their overall importance goes, they are no more worthy of our consideration than a box of nails. Ribbons and banners in ostensible "support" of the troops miss the whole point of the invasion, which is to gain a strategic hold over that volatile and lucrative geopolitical region.

Need I remind the reader that it is our flag, not the troops, that we salute? It is our nation-state, not a bunch of 20-year-olds in parachute pants, that deserves our allegiance. As a patriot and true American, my heart sings at the thought of the Pentagon, and the zealous, calculating measures undertaken by the proud military bureaucracy of this great superpower. I feel a surge of pride when I think about our high-tech GBU laser-guided bombs, capable of carrying a 2,000-pound warhead. I tied a ribbon around my tree for the safe return of our nation's F-16s, because our military aircraft are instrumental to finishing our work in Iraq. And on the back of my car, I have a sticker stating my support for the CIA's ongoing efforts in Iraq.

I support the occupation, and the occupation alone, because when we start to support the troops, we pave the way for irrelevant concerns about their families back at home. Before you know it, questions about who is and isn't going to be home in time for Christmas will be interfering with the crucial decision-making process of our commander-in-chief.

I'd like to ask those currently trumpeting their support for the troops a question: Have you ever actually met any of these soldiers in person? Well, I have, and believe me, they are no more impressive than any other low-level functionary of a large institution.

In all honesty, my soul swells with pride at the thought of the military-strategy papers and cost-analysis reports in which the troops are represented as numerical figures. But, as for the men and women—well, in almost every respect, they are average. Although they are no less intelligent than any other American, it is certainly fair to say they lack the ability to devise the complex strategies and tactics to manage their own divisions, much less grasp the nuanced reasons for their deployment.

It is ridiculous that my "heart" is somehow morally or ethically obliged to "go out" to the troops. In fact, had the troops not been put to productive labor by the sheer might and institutional authority of the U.S. military, a good number of them would be sitting around bars, drinking and gambling. In short, we shouldn't view the troops as objects of sympathy, because their very contribution to our society is their ability to carry out simple commands on a battlefield.

Allow me to pursue this from a more personal angle. I have a son in the military. If I may say so, we've never gotten along particularly well. Frankly, he's been a bit of a disappointment to his mother and me. Nevertheless, he is our flesh and blood and always will be, and we wish him no harm. So I speak from a position of personal experience when I say that, while I do not wish death for any of the troops, death tolls should not be our greatest concern. All that matters is the pursuit of the foreign-policy goals of this great land, the land I love. America
The U.S. went to war in Iraq to remove an evil and dangerous political adversary from power. Now that we have done that, the American troops must remain in Iraq until the country is a fully functioning democracy, able to spark change throughout the entire Middle East. While I find this obvious, there are still a lot of people in our country who fail to grasp it. I support Bush-administration foreign-policy goals, but I stand firmly against the individual men and women on the ground in the Persian Gulf.

Yes, occupying Iraq does require troops, but they are there for one reason and one reason only: to carry out the orders of the U.S. Defense Department. As far as their overall importance goes, they are no more worthy of our consideration than a box of nails. Ribbons and banners in ostensible "support" of the troops miss the whole point of the invasion, which is to gain a strategic hold over that volatile and lucrative geopolitical region.

Need I remind the reader that it is our flag, not the troops, that we salute? It is our nation-state, not a bunch of 20-year-olds in parachute pants, that deserves our allegiance. As a patriot and true American, my heart sings at the thought of the Pentagon, and the zealous, calculating measures undertaken by the proud military bureaucracy of this great superpower. I feel a surge of pride when I think about our high-tech GBU laser-guided bombs, capable of carrying a 2,000-pound warhead. I tied a ribbon around my tree for the safe return of our nation's F-16s, because our military aircraft are instrumental to finishing our work in Iraq. And on the back of my car, I have a sticker stating my support for the CIA's ongoing efforts in Iraq.

I support the occupation, and the occupation alone, because when we start to support the troops, we pave the way for irrelevant concerns about their families back at home. Before you know it, questions about who is and isn't going to be home in time for Christmas will be interfering with the crucial decision-making process of our commander-in-chief.

I'd like to ask those currently trumpeting their support for the troops a question: Have you ever actually met any of these soldiers in person? Well, I have, and believe me, they are no more impressive than any other low-level functionary of a large institution.

In all honesty, my soul swells with pride at the thought of the military-strategy papers and cost-analysis reports in which the troops are represented as numerical figures. But, as for the men and women—well, in almost every respect, they are average. Although they are no less intelligent than any other American, it is certainly fair to say they lack the ability to devise the complex strategies and tactics to manage their own divisions, much less grasp the nuanced reasons for their deployment.

It is ridiculous that my "heart" is somehow morally or ethically obliged to "go out" to the troops. In fact, had the troops not been put to productive labor by the sheer might and institutional authority of the U.S. military, a good number of them would be sitting around bars, drinking and gambling. In short, we shouldn't view the troops as objects of sympathy, because their very contribution to our society is their ability to carry out simple commands on a battlefield.

Allow me to pursue this from a more personal angle. I have a son in the military. If I may say so, we've never gotten along particularly well. Frankly, he's been a bit of a disappointment to his mother and me. Nevertheless, he is our flesh and blood and always will be, and we wish him no harm. So I speak from a position of personal experience when I say that, while I do not wish death for any of the troops, death tolls should not be our greatest concern. All that matters is the pursuit of the foreign-policy goals of this great land, the land I love. America


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34068 (hey its a quoted news source right?)

[Rohirrim]

I wonder what ole Mickey thinks when some young girl, say 16 years or so, goes outside in a desperate attempt to find some food for her starving family, but unfortunately, her burka is torn. The local thought police offical of the Taliban notices her and apprehends her. For her transgression, she is trucked to the soccer stadium, made to kneel in the dirt while an AK is placed to the back of her head - and while people applaud - her brains are blown into the dirt. That's what Osama stands for. That's what the Taliban stand for. And he thinks Americans are suffering from a "propaganda induced fog?"

Perhaps Mickey would like to join his true, revolutionary brethren, his hero, Osama, and the Taliban, in the caves of Afghanistan? Although, as is the case with most who are born with mouth too big, they are also born without balls.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by ak1971

Hey gafney...have you grown your Hilter mustache yet? Seig Heil!

I don't understand the Hitler connection. When did Hitler badmouth his country
or the soldiers fighting for it?* Hitler's problem was he was too patriotic.
How does gafney compare with that?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to invoke a severe case of Godwin's Law on you.



(* Now Hitler did become disillusioned at the very end before he committed suicide, but I'm talking about in general.)

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Here's the truth. I don't impugn Pat Tillman in any way. He was probably doing what he believed was right. But so are the Iraqis who are fighting us.

The point of the above article is that Tillman, like all of the other dead US troops, threw their lives away for nothing.

Or maybe you think that invading a nation that never attacked us or threatened us --- so we can steal their oil -- is a noble cause. If you think that, shame on you.

But Afghanistan DID attack us (I don't buy your BS that 9/11 was an inside
job). And the al-Quada training camps in Afghanistan WERE a treat to us.
And besides, Afghanistan doesn't have any oil to steal anyway.

[ak1971]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

I don't understand the Hitler connection. When did Hitler badmouth his country
or the soldiers fighting for it?* Hitler's problem was he was too patriotic.
How does gafney compare with that?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to invoke a severe case of Godwin's Law on you.



(* Now Hitler did become disillusioned at the very end before he committed suicide, but I'm talking about in general.)

Im comparing him for his anti semitism...maybe not the best comparison, but you get the idea

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by phisig150

Hate the war not the warrior (and the faulty intelligence reports our administration was working off). Who was one the key people who stripped our intelligence agencies? I believe your boy Bubba might have something to do with that ( plus the fact that back in the day he had Osama's head on a platter but didn't want to get his hands dirty). Whatever, support the troops no matter what, bash the policticos.

And I believe you are full of s**t, to be blunt about it.
Just because you believe horses**t from Faux Noise, doesn't make it true.
Clinton did a hell of a lot more to get bin Laden than Bush has.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by phisig150

Would this be the same war that Hillary and Kerry supported?

More Faux Noise talking points? Clinton and Kerry voted on a resolution which
would use diplomatic means and weapons inspections to have Saddam give up
his WMDs and force was only to be used as a last resort. It's not their fault
Dubya used force as the first resort because Dubya knew damn well that
Saddam no longer had any WMDs, and lied to Clinton and Kerry about it.