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Old 03-21-2007, 01:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU View Post
I didn't even really want to get into this thread, but I will say this: As phenomenal as Dirk is, last year's Finals were really telling, IMO. He had chances late in 2 games, and he couldn't finish. I like the guy, and believe that the Mavs won't be seriously contested (maybe somebody takes them to 6 games max) in the playoffs, but I think Dirk will need to prove the naysayers wrong this year.
People remember what they want to remember. I remember Dallas getting over the hump last season. I remember Dirk outdeuling the great Tim Duncan in an all-time classic series where both stars were playing at their highest level. This was a battle of possibly the two greatest PF's in NBA history where both players put on a show. I remember Dirk tying the game by taking a defender to the basket who doubters had said could stop him and muscling over him in the post (which doubters said he couldnt do) for the most significant and recognizeable play in recent NBA history. I remember him sinking the tying free throw with ease(the most important of his career). I remember Dirk overcoming the odds on the road in the den of the most dominant franchise in the recent NBA while outdeuling a guy who is a top-5 player in NBA history.

Then I remember Dirk silencing the doubters again in the WCF. I remember him carrying the Mavs on his back. I remember him winning the west after dropping 50 on the Suns (most of those points were in the fourth quarter of a game where the Mavs were trailing entering the period).

In fact, Dirk has done nothing but silence his critics for his entire career. He does it every season. I know that he'll do it again. It's what he does.

Just as Kobe Bryant said: "Dirk doesnt have to prove anything."




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The problem is, he's missed them on the biggest stages. You're right, I had forgotten about Game 7 myself. That was huge, and he came up big. But the bigger shots came just a week and a half later, when he clanked late FT's in 2 Finals games that could have secured the Mavs a ring.
Those free throws wouldnt have secured a ring. They would have made the Mavs chances much, much better, but they wouldnt have finalized anything. Dirk had two bad games in that series. Those were only bad games by his standards. That's it.

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If Dirk makes those in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage, the story becomes how in every round Dirk came up huge, as clutch as there is. You ask why nobody remembers the big shots, because they were followed by even bigger misses.
That's not necessarily true. The story is whatever the media wants it to be. The story would have still been the Suns this season no matter what Dallas did in the playoffs. That is, of course, the comparison that we are looking at.

People tend to want to hold Dirk to standards that they do not hold Nash to. Everyone knows that Phoenix' support players are much better than Dallas'. Marion, Stoudemire, Diaw(or Joe Johnson), Barbosa, and Bell (or Q Richardson) are a pretty talented group. Despite all of those players, Phoenix was not able to do what Dallas could do. They were not able to get over the hump and beat the Spurs. Why was Dallas able to get over the hump? Dirk Nowitzki. Who was the star in the Phoenix/SA conference finals? Stoudemire. Why didnt they get over the hump? Nash cant play defense. Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix. They have been better at closing out great opponents in the clutch. Dirk is a very, very, very large reason why. In fact, Dirk pulled off a classic finish in the biggest game of his career by scoring an and-1 with seconds on the clock and then blocking Duncan's layup on the other end on the last posession of the game. Cant say the same for Nash. Why isnt Nash being held to the same standard that Dirk is?

I wouldnt care at all if Dirk was criticized on a level playing field, but that's just not what's happening. I read an article recently by a popular national columnist on ESPiN TV that said that the national media intentionally promotes Nash to get at Cuban. He said that his buddies do it. The playing field is not level.

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But this will all be moot, because as much as I hate to say it, nobody is dethroning the Mavs this year.
The Mavs dont have the crown. They are going to have to take it by force.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:17 AM   #52
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If you want to apply a bunch of excuses, that's fine. Just remember that Dirk doesnt get, or want, that same benefit.

Forgive me, but when you start your argument with a bunch of excuses, you have already admitted an inferior position.




Again. Excuses dont count here. Players shouldnt win MVP's based on excuses. Nash hasnt gotten done what Dirk has. Especially this season and over their comparative recent history. The argument should end there.



Nash is second only to The Flying Wheelchair as far as promotion goes. Nash and the Suns are an easy favorite of sportswriters everywhere. I have to chuckle a bit when you say that they are underappreciated. Try being a Mavs fan!
You sir are an idiot...especially when you say hasnt and gotten right after another...what has Dirk gotten (hahahaha) that Nash doesnt? A NBA finals appearance?? sooo f'n what?? Nash has 2 things wait make that soon to be 3 things that Dirk doesnt and will never have...1 is an MVP trophy...2 is another MVP trophy and 3...yeah another MVP trophy...if you dont understand that an NBA Finals appearance is contingent on not only the play of one player, but eleven others...then you really need to stop watching basketball...

just keep swinging off Dirks nuts...I should think about nailing my penis to a burning building rather than talking to Mavs fans...

good luck to your boys come April 21st...hopefully they'll see them again in that WCF rematch...

oh and lastly...who the **** wants to appreciate a Mavs fan? you're all a bunch of bitter losers...

Last edited by TheManeMan; 03-21-2007 at 01:19 AM..
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:21 AM   #53
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I don't know how many times I have tried to tell llama boy that losing not only studman himself Amare' but also Kurt Thomas last year, they had absolutely no inside presense and still almost beat the Mav's. I'd like to see what they would do without their two best post players. They wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Call it what you want dude, if you think it's an excuse then that's exactly what we say about Dallas in the Finals. Dallas was the heavy favorite and probably the better team and they C H O K E D.

I won't say Dirk is a choker. He's hit clutch shots before. But your hatred for Nash is beyound belief. I've heard many people that have been NBA coaches and players say he is the best player in the league. I think there's never anyway to prove such a thing, so many different styles. The things he does, NOBODY esle does them. When he takes the ball in the lane, keeps his dribble alive and finds open guys slashing in the lane when he's got 3 guys on him, time and time again. The other team knows it's coming but can't stop it. Like I said, NOBODY in the league does that. He takes the most charges in the league, or at least close to it. Easily penetrates in the lane no matter who is guarding him. Hit's those off hand layups, fading jump shots over the bigs, all this with a bad back.

Where were you last week when the Mavs got pasted by the Warriers, lost to the Suns and just about blew their wad in Boston? Weren't feeling so hot about the Mavs then were you?
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:36 AM   #54
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So wait, what do you call INSTANTLY crying about a conspiracy following last year's Finals? Seriously now, that was the mother of all excuses.

Forgive me, but you calling somebody ELSE out for making excuses and having an inferior position is pure comedy.

"Dirk woulda won, but the refs were told by Stern to let DWade have his way to sell jerseys in the hood! WAAAAAAAAAAA!!! "



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Old 03-21-2007, 09:04 AM   #55
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I wouldnt care at all if Dirk was criticized on a level playing field, but that's just not what's happening. I read an article recently by a popular national columnist on ESPiN TV that said that the national media intentionally promotes Nash to get at Cuban. He said that his buddies do it. The playing field is not level.
Is it any wonder people make fun of the Mavs fans?

This kind of pathetic groveling dovetails nicely with Cuban's insistence there's a league-wide conspiracy against his team.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:35 AM   #56
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I have thouroughly enjoyed this thread.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:40 AM   #57
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I have thouroughly enjoyed this thread.
It took several years, but Gonzo has finally proven useful.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:46 AM   #58
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The 1980s Celtics would wipe the floor with the 2007 Mavericks. Wipe the ****ing floor. Im talking about 50, 60 point blowouts.
I brought this up the other day....just about any of the top tier teams of the 70's, 80's and 90's would destroy any modern day team because team basketball in this day and age is terrible. It's totally in decline and unwatchable.

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Old 03-21-2007, 10:48 AM   #59
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Well, llama sometimes exaggerates a little and, ironically, does what ESPN does and thinks the modern day players are better than some all time greats.
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:05 AM   #60
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Well, llama sometimes exaggerates a little and, ironically, does what ESPN does and thinks the modern day players are better than some all time greats.
A little?
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #61
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A little?
We need to keep a balance in this thread ... Llama exaggerates, I understate
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:21 AM   #62
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Why do Suns fans bring up Kurt Thomas? He doesn't do jack in that system.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:37 PM   #63
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No kidding...the guy is getting raked over the coals when he's a strong candidate for MVP.

How about we discuss the great Shaq free throw jokes? Or bricks quite honestly.

He missed a free throw...BFD. Players miss free throws with zero pressure on them too. Damn him for being honest that he feels pressure. Not everyone has ice going thru their veins.
Because Llama isn't slobbing on his knob.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:40 PM   #64
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or MAAAAAyybe,Winners want the ball at the end of the game.
if Dirk had the balls that Melo has, people wouldn't think he's such a choke artist.
Losers make excuses about being "tense".



wait wait wait. My bad. Even if Dirk had a bigger pair of balls, it really wouldnt matter, because he probably couldn't steal them back from your homering lips long enough to make a difference.
Now I bet Nate Robinson and the rest of the Knicks would have a different opinion on Melo's ability to stand up like a man after he took a cheap shot.

The only backpeddaling back to the bench that can compare are Llama's excuses for the mavs.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:43 PM   #65
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Why do Suns fans bring up Kurt Thomas? He doesn't do jack in that system.

Yeah he does. He rebounds and plays post defense. I think last night against The Big Ticket he put in 10 points and 12 boards and I believe like 3 blocks. I'm not gonna say he's a huge factor but he is a factor, especially when you don't have Amare and the only other guy on the floor over 6'10" is Tim Thomas who they picked up very late in the season and he was all about jacking up 3 pointers and playing NO D. Anybody who knows ball could clearly see the Suns last year made a great run with nothing but guards and small forwards.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:45 PM   #66
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People remember what they want to remember. I remember Dallas getting over the hump last season. I remember Dirk outdeuling the great Tim Duncan in an all-time classic series where both stars were playing at their highest level. This was a battle of possibly the two greatest PF's in NBA history where both players put on a show. I remember Dirk tying the game by taking a defender to the basket who doubters had said could stop him and muscling over him in the post (which doubters said he couldnt do) for the most significant and recognizeable play in recent NBA history. I remember him sinking the tying free throw with ease(the most important of his career). I remember Dirk overcoming the odds on the road in the den of the most dominant franchise in the recent NBA while outdeuling a guy who is a top-5 player in NBA history.

Then I remember Dirk silencing the doubters again in the WCF. I remember him carrying the Mavs on his back. I remember him winning the west after dropping 50 on the Suns (most of those points were in the fourth quarter of a game where the Mavs were trailing entering the period).

In fact, Dirk has done nothing but silence his critics for his entire career. He does it every season. I know that he'll do it again. It's what he does.

Just as Kobe Bryant said: "Dirk doesnt have to prove anything."






Those free throws wouldnt have secured a ring. They would have made the Mavs chances much, much better, but they wouldnt have finalized anything. Dirk had two bad games in that series. Those were only bad games by his standards. That's it.



That's not necessarily true. The story is whatever the media wants it to be. The story would have still been the Suns this season no matter what Dallas did in the playoffs. That is, of course, the comparison that we are looking at.

People tend to want to hold Dirk to standards that they do not hold Nash to. Everyone knows that Phoenix' support players are much better than Dallas'. Marion, Stoudemire, Diaw(or Joe Johnson), Barbosa, and Bell (or Q Richardson) are a pretty talented group. Despite all of those players, Phoenix was not able to do what Dallas could do. They were not able to get over the hump and beat the Spurs. Why was Dallas able to get over the hump? Dirk Nowitzki. Who was the star in the Phoenix/SA conference finals? Stoudemire. Why didnt they get over the hump? Nash cant play defense. Dallas has accomplished more than Phoenix. They have been better at closing out great opponents in the clutch. Dirk is a very, very, very large reason why. In fact, Dirk pulled off a classic finish in the biggest game of his career by scoring an and-1 with seconds on the clock and then blocking Duncan's layup on the other end on the last posession of the game. Cant say the same for Nash. Why isnt Nash being held to the same standard that Dirk is?

I wouldnt care at all if Dirk was criticized on a level playing field, but that's just not what's happening. I read an article recently by a popular national columnist on ESPiN TV that said that the national media intentionally promotes Nash to get at Cuban. He said that his buddies do it. The playing field is not level.



The Mavs dont have the crown. They are going to have to take it by force.

This is one of the best ways to pass the offseason especially with a drama queen as Llama.
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