Do Atheists Find Anything Wrong With Pedophilia?

[GonzoLays]

If so, why? Isn't it just two animals going at it?

[Spider]

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[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

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You don't know, Spider?

[OregonBronco]

What the hell kind of stupid question is that? I've just lost a little more faith in the human race...thanks.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by OregonBronco

What the hell kind of stupid question is that? I've just lost a little more faith in the human race...thanks.

Are you crying?

[sisterhellfyre]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

If so, why? Isn't it just two animals going at it?

Consent. It's a question of consent.

Regards,
m.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by sisterhellfyre

Consent. It's a question of consent.

Regards,
m.

What does consent have to do with it?

So you are saying if the child consents with the sexual act, it is okay?

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Are you crying?

Atheism = religious issue. Pedpohilia = social issue. The two don't have any correlation....except for Catholic priests.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by OregonBronco

Atheism = religious issue. Pedpohilia = social issue.

Didn't our original set of laws, the code of hammurabi, supposedly come from God? If so, all laws and morals are derived from a spirtual source.

Once again, why should an athiest be against pedophilia? Isn't is just two animals going at it?

[GonzoLays]

And to take this a step further, do athiests believe there is something wrong with stealing? Because as well know, "God" said not to steal. So if they don't believe in God, why would they find something wrong with theft?

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Didn't our original set of laws, the code of hammurabi, supposedly come from God? If so, all laws and morals are derived from a spirtual source.

Once again, why should an athiest be against pedophilia? Isn't is just two animals going at it?

Do you really think that little of atheists? I'm agnostic and I believe that human intelligence and social behaviour is a cut above the rest of the animals on the planet. And as such, it is our responsibility to take care of what we have.

Pedophilia is against the laws of society for good reason. Just because someone doesn't follow outdated religious doctrine doesn't mean they disregard human laws of ethics and morality.

Of all the people I know, some of the most corrupt, underhanded, close-minded individuals are devout religious types. I know some very good-hearted, kind devout types, too, but I've found that a person's religious affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with how good that person is.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by OregonBronco

Do you really think that little of atheists? I'm agnostic and I believe that human intelligence and social behaviour is a cut above the rest of the animals on the planet. And as such, it is our responsibility to take care of what we have.

Pedophilia is against the laws of society for good reason. Just because someone doesn't follow outdated religious doctrine doesn't mean they disregard human laws of ethics and morality.

Of all the people I know, some of the most corrupt, underhanded, close-minded individuals are devout religious types. I know some very good-hearted, kind devout types, too, but I've found that a person's religious affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with how good that person is.

But why is pedophilia wrong to you? Practical atheists were said to behave as though God, morals, ethics and social responsibility did not exist.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

You don't know, Spider?

are you saying that without god , we cant tell right from wrong or care ?
we need religion to do the right thing ?

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

And to take this a step further, do athiests believe there is something wrong with stealing? Because as well know, "God" said not to steal. So if they don't believe in God, why would they find something wrong with theft?

These things you're talking about are basic foundations of civilized society. Stealing was a punishible offense long before your god decided it was bad. Here are a couple examples from ancient Roman law in The Twelve Tables, c. 450 BCE:

3. If one is slain while committing theft by night, he is rightly slain.

12. If the theft has been done by night, if the owner kills the thief, the thief shall be held to be lawfully killed.

That's just amazing that they could figure out stealing was bad without the Christian god telling them. Who knew?

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Practical atheists were said to behave as though God, morals, ethics and social responsibility did not exist.

Where did you come up with this nonsense? Well you got the god part right anyway.

Let's look at the word atheist. It means not a theist, or not believing in deities. Why would you assert someone who doesn't believe in deities also doesn't believe in morals, ethics and social responsibility? That's a complete failure of logic.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

are you saying that without god , we cant tell right from wrong or care ?
we need religion to do the right thing ?

If it wasn't for religion, you would never know what the "right thing" was in the first place. If some "higher source" never gave us the laws, there would be no laws, you dig?

[sisterhellfyre]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

What does consent have to do with it?

So you are saying if the child consents with the sexual act, it is okay?

Is a pre-pubescent child able to cognitively understand and emotionally handle the act of having sex? We're not talking about is the kid "smart" enough. It's because kids *think* in ways different than adults. (For those adults that *do* think, anyhow.) Pre-pube kids could be exploited, deceived or manipulated into giving something that passes for "consent."

For the young ones, before adolescence begins, it's never right to have sex with them for those reasons. When it comes to adolescents, the question is different.

Ever heard the phrase "old enough to bleed is old enough to breed"? We mock them, but there are still some states where the age of consent for marriage is down to 15. There's a reason for that. In many places around the world, it's common for people in their teens to take on adult responsibilities. Girls got married, boys took apprenticeships, etc.

Even so, my beliefs against deceiving, manipulating or forcing an adolescent to have sex would still apply. They'd apply to anyone, of any age, in any sexual situation. I'd hope, further, that information about preventing pregnancy and transmitting STDs was also available.

Regards,
m.

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

If it wasn't for religion, you would never know what the "right thing" was in the first place. If some "higher source" never gave us the laws, there would be no laws, you dig?

And you have some information to back up your off the cuff assertions, I assume?

Here's a good read:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0303-30.htm

The next step from this argument is the assertion that religion is the basis of America itself, and that twisted half-truth that the Founders and Framers did not write a "wall of separation between church and state" into the First Amendment of the Constitution. And then, conservatives will say, religion should inform the decisions of government; government should be subsidizing religion (as it is already with tax breaks and "faith based initiatives"); and religion-based legal perspectives (particularly on issues like abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality) are necessary, since the basis of American law is religion.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams disagreed.

In a February 10, 1814 letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, Jefferson addressed the question directly. "Finally, in answer to Fortescue Aland's question why the Ten Commandments should not now be a part of the common law of England we may say they are not because they never were." Anybody who asserted that the Ten Commandments were the basis of American or British law was, Jefferson said, mistakenly believing a document put forth by Massachusetts and British Puritan zealots which was "a manifest forgery."

The reason was simple, Jefferson said. British common law, on which much American law was based, existed before Christianity had arrived in England.

"Sir Matthew Hale [a conservative advocate for church/state "cooperation"] lays it down in these words," wrote Jefferson to Cooper: "'Christianity is parcel of the laws of England.'"

But, Jefferson rebuts in his letter, it couldn't be. Just looking at the timeline of English history demonstrated it was impossible:

"But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here, then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it...."

Not only was Christianity - or Judaism, or the Ten Commandments - not a part of the foundation of British and American common law, Jefferson noted, but those who were suggesting it was were promoting a lie that any person familiar with the commonly-known history of England would recognize as absurd.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by OregonBronco

And you have some information to back up your off the cuff assertions, I assume?

Here's a good read:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0303-30.htm

That is why I go back to the codes of hammurabi, not 7th century AD.

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

That is why I go back to the codes of hammurabi, not 7th century AD.

Hammurabi, a Babylonian, received the laws from the sun god Shamash. So unless you subscribe to the ideas of the Babylonian gods, you are equally as fallible as an atheist. And if you do buy into the Babylonian gods, you implicitly deny the Christian god.

Also, many of the crimes in the Code of Hammurabi call for death. This directly refutes the 10 Commandments. Thou shall not kill, remember? Or is it thou shall not kill unless you have a really good reason?

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by OregonBronco

Hammurabi, a Babylonian, received the laws from the sun god Shamash. So unless you subscribe to the ideas of the Babylonian gods, you are equally as fallible as an atheist. And if you do buy into the Babylonian gods, you implicitly deny the Christian god.

Also, many of the crimes in the Code of Hammurabi call for death. This directly refutes the 10 Commandments. Thou shall not kill, remember? Or is it thou shall not kill unless you have a really good reason?

Why do you keep assuming that I am Christian or proclaiming a certain religion is correct?

[Spider]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

If it wasn't for religion, you would never know what the "right thing" was in the first place. If some "higher source" never gave us the laws, there would be no laws, you dig?

No I dont dig ........

[broncocalijohn]

Atheist would still follow laws of the land regardless if they are from the 10 commandments or not. Laws are based on right and wrong. The only thing you need to worry about Atheist is that since they arent GOD FEARING, would they have a concious about committing a crime without a God to judge them when they die?

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Atheist would still follow laws of the land regardless if they are from the 10 commandments or not. Laws are based on right and wrong. The only thing you need to worry about Atheist is that since they arent GOD FEARING, would they have a concious about committing a crime without a God to judge them when they die?

I didn't ask whether atheists are going to follow the law of the land, just whether they find anything wrong with pedophilia. Remember, its just two animals going at it. What's the big deal in their minds?

[OregonBronco]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Why do you keep assuming that I am Christian or proclaiming a certain religion is correct?

Why did you imply atheists are inherently pedophiles?