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Old 10-21-2007, 02:27 PM   #5276
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Good point, Ro. I appreciate the strategy of the NL too...forgot to mention that.

All the best mangers are in the NL...always have been. Francona came from the NL and I always thought Torre did a good job in the NL parks in the WS.

AL managers just have to manage the pitching staff 95% of the time. ESPECIALLY the BoSox. We rarely steal or bunt. I guess you gotta put the ol "hit and run" on once in a while.
Lasorda's "suicide squeeze plays" were a thing of beauty.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:29 PM   #5277
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-Rick Ankiel is no longer a pitcher, he appears to be drugged up outfielder
-Babe Ruth has been dead for long time, and most of the HR came full time outfielder
-Whitey Ford hasn't picked up a bat in long time.

So that leaves 2 active pitchers out of how many
There's plenty of stud two way pitchers/hitters on the collegiate level. The only thing holding them back when they go pro are general managers going with the conservative mindset that they need to settle into one role.

Specialization sucks. The fans would love a two way hitter/pitcher in today's game. It's too bad nobody has the guts in baseball to try it.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:31 PM   #5278
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Spending in quantity is not the issue here, it's efficient spending. There are some contracts on the Red Sox roster that would financially cripple other franchises that no general manager in baseball would want any part of:

Jason Varitek, 4 years, $40 million
J.D. Drew, 5 years, $70 million
Daisuke, 6 years, $52 million + 51, 111, 111.11 milllion

It's wrong when a general manager can make bonehead moves such as these, but still get away with it. That's why I admire what the Rockies, Indians and Diamondbacks did this season. They had a small margin of error and all four franchises put together championship clubs.

Understood. It's all based on what your budget is.

However, with that argument, you even gotta give the Yankees a little credit. The Dodgers, Cubs, and Mets have spent lots of money (without having to worry about the Yankees) and have had little success due to bad decisions.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:33 PM   #5279
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Specialization sucks. The fans would love a two way hitter/pitcher in today's game. It's too bad nobody has the guts in baseball to try it.
Yes and no.

There are too few that can do it at the Major League level and the risk/reward is just not worth it.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:36 PM   #5280
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There's plenty of stud two way pitchers/hitters on the collegiate level. The only thing holding them back when they go pro are general managers going with the conservative mindset that they need to settle into one role.

Specialization sucks. The fans would love a two way hitter/pitcher in today's game. It's too bad nobody has the guts in baseball to try it.
They also hit with the old aluminum bats in the college ranks too. It amazing how crappy good college hitters become when they are forced to use wooden bats. That why the Cape Code league is great, you actually see if the kids have what it take to make in MLB and farm system
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:40 PM   #5281
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They also hit with the old aluminum bats in the college ranks too. It amazing how crappy good college hitters become when they are forced to use wooden bats. That why the Cape Code league is great, you actually see if the kids have what it take to make in MLB and farm system
Don't get me started on aluminum bats.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:40 PM   #5282
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I don´t watch baseball as much as others here do, casually during the season and more regularly during the playoffs, and I prefer NL games because of the extra strategy involved. I prefer watching small ball games where teams actually have to construct runs over games where everybody is just swinging for the fences.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:42 PM   #5283
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I don´t watch baseball as much as others here do, casually during the season and more regularly during the playoffs, and I prefer NL games because of the extra strategy involved. I prefer watching small ball games where teams actually have to construct runs over games where everybody is just swinging for the fences.
That was what Ty Cobb thought, too. He HATED the Babe Ruth approach.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:07 PM   #5284
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That's why the National League holds a 40-36 all-time advantage in the Midsummer Classic? Do you forget about the 1960s and 1970s when the Senior Circuit steamrolled the Junior every July?

I think i smell a converted Faider fan here! WHo says "all time" ? Are you having Mays, Aaron, Rose and Duke Snider playing for you now? Dude, recent times. Like the last 10 years or even 5 years. To say that the AL has the advantage because of the DH is absolutely retarded. I know Rock fans have been around for 15 years but it doesnt take that long to figure out that it is a disadvantage to have a DH when it comes to the world series. The DH has to play the field to get at bats. WOuld you rather have gold glove Youkilis at first or Ortiz? In Colorado, Ortiz needs to find a postion or he will be a pinch hitter. AL has their field covered and now can put a big bat in the pitcher's spot. What a nice little advantage to have for up to 3 games in the WS (not to mention all the inter league play). If you dont give this up, I am going to have to try out MLB for their stats. I should check out the Royals interleague play too. Didnt they beat up the Cards? I swear, dont make us junior league fans do it.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:21 PM   #5285
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I don't know why the bigger markets don't spend more. Having spent quite a few hours at Chavez Ravine I can tell you, they don't have a real dependable fan base out there.

once again, a person that has no clue on the Dodger attendance figures. Regardless of how this team does, it is one of the most loyal fan groups in SoCal. Lakers being the other top one. Dodgers do spend but they dont have to compete with the Yanks, Angels or Red Sox until the WS. And IMO, that wont happen any time soon.
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Old 10-21-2007, 05:19 PM   #5286
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i cant wait to see those fat ass AL players play the Rockies. we run every ground ball out. i dont think those fat AL players know how to turn a double play with the pressure we will bring.
i couldnt even watch the game tonight-fatass pitcher takes his time taking the mound. fat ass batter takes his time getting into the batters box.........
four hours to play nine innings. and MLB wonders why NFL is the number one sport?

So. You got something against fat-asses? They are different styles of the games.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:01 PM   #5287
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Maybe I'm just biased. I've been a National Leaguer my whole life. I just prefer all the strategy around the pitching slot in the batting lineup. It affects so much of what can happen in a game. It does remind me of the rule in golf that "you play your ball where it lies." Sometimes, it's such a pain in the ass, like if your ball is up against a tree. But that's just the rub of the green. It changes what you can do. In the AL, you just seamlessly go from the 8 slot to the DH and back to the 1 slot. Nothing to think about. Not really much to plan around.

I don't know why the bigger markets don't spend more. Having spent quite a few hours at Chavez Ravine I can tell you, they don't have a real dependable fan base out there.
See, I think this is where AL and NL ball differ. Its not a superiority thing, its about where you want to see the decisive performances coming from.

I grew up in very AL-centric New England, but my grandfather was a die hard NL guy to the bone so I watched a whole lot of both. In the AL the game centers around dynamic pitching and hitting performances. Athletes doing great things on the field. The NL rules lean more towards the manager taking a decisive role and making winning decisions.

Its a matter of personal preference. Do you enjoy seeing the manager make a cerebral double switch that pays off, or do you enjoy seeing a great hitter go out and give his team the lead by working the count and taking a pitcher deep? Both are examples of great baseball, a preference for one doesn't invalidate the other.

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Spending in quantity is not the issue here, it's efficient spending. There are some contracts on the Red Sox roster that would financially cripple other franchises that no general manager in baseball would want any part of:

Jason Varitek, 4 years, $40 million
J.D. Drew, 5 years, $70 million
Daisuke, 6 years, $52 million + 51, 111, 111.11 milllion

It's wrong when a general manager can make bonehead moves such as these, but still get away with it. That's why I admire what the Rockies, Indians and Diamondbacks did this season. They had a small margin of error and all four franchises put together championship clubs.
Varitek's contract wasn't too far off his market value. In fact, had he gone FA he'd probably have gotten more like 5 years, $60M. He was fresh off two seasons with an .863 or better OPS, had just won a world series, and was considered one of, if not the greatest players at one of the hardest to fill positions in baseball. He performed very well the following year and was down the past two (though a good chunk of '06 was lost to injury). Any GM would look back at that contract without a hint of regret.

Matsuzaka, well, that deal is a different beast entirely when you consider the profitable ventures it opens up for a team in Japan. The Yankees have had the Japanese market cornered for some time, Boston would've been foolish to not find a way into that burgeoning market, especially when the investment would also net a potentially top tier mid-20's pitcher for well below market cost in player salary terms.

Drew? I didn't personally much care for the contract myself but to say no GM in the league would want it is kind of a misnomer when the Dodgers' brass groused quite a bit about how J.D. "broke his word" opting out after he said he wouldn't. They were paying close to the same annual salary for only one less guaranteed season (the 5th year has a team opt out based on if Drew stays healthy).

Now why not chose some good examples. Like how the Sox took an apparently bad contract in Renteria and turned it into value by including money, or how they've been just fine paying Matt Clement $8.5M a year despite him not pitching in a year and a half (though that also recoups a fat insurance check).

Too much is made of the financial differences in baseball. Teams determine their own fate in that capacity. If you play well and win fans show up, tv contracts appear, and you're on your way to being a powerhouse. If you don't perform and make good decisions you'll be a scrub organization. The Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, etc. all paid those dues long ago and as a result have full coffers to rely upon. Its the nature of such an old sport, the old guard that has been consistently well run in terms of fan relations are the mega corporations of their competitive environment. Should we fault the New York Times for being such a successful newspaper as compared their fledgling brethren? We should no more fault a pro sports team with such an established following.

In fact, what we should do is blame the small market clubs that are getting handouts from their financial superiors only to pocket them and let their team flounder. The Twins are supposedly very willing to trade Santana this off-season. Thats is preposterous for a team that receives tens of millions of dollars in revenue sharing and luxury tax handouts every year and is likely going to let their marquee free agent, Torii Hunter, walk. Pholad is more concerned with his bank account than his team though and as a result he's going to take the free money and let them flounder. Blame owners like that for the discrepancies in baseball. No team post-expos is in such a bad market that they can't manage a $60M+ payroll as long as they make the occasional smart decision and don't spit in their fan's faces.
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:50 PM   #5288
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Some WS news"

Wakefield will NOT be on the roster for this round due to his back. Don't know who the 4th starter is, but I would beat on Lester.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:59 PM   #5289
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Also Cook is on the Rockies roster, Buckholz is off. Sucks for Buckholz, he was consistent all year and I expect he will be a key in the bullpen next year.
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:03 PM   #5290
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So Cooke is taking Franklin Morales' spot in the rotation and he is heading to the Bull Pen. Smart move or not?
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:17 PM   #5291
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Ya know, I have not been overly impressed with Cook over the past year when he did pitch... Not sure why. Just seemed to me to be a bit less effective more often than not. But I admit to prefering Cook over Fogg. Fogg gives me headaches.....

At least Buckholz gets a full share......
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:15 PM   #5292
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So Cooke is taking Franklin Morales' spot in the rotation and he is heading to the Bull Pen. Smart move or not?
If Cookie has his sinker working...it's definately a good move. Franklin's been too shaky and it gives the Rox three lefties in the pen.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:17 PM   #5293
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Also Cook is on the Rockies roster, Buckholz is off. Sucks for Buckholz, he was consistent all year and I expect he will be a key in the bullpen next year.
bucholz will probably be starting next year.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:20 PM   #5294
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bucholz will probably be starting next year.
different guy. The Rockies have a pitcher named that too. weird huh
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:29 PM   #5295
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Buckholz hasn't had an appearance all post-season so I don't see this as a huge risk-reward type move like the Taverz issue. This is a no-brainer. You put Cook on the roster if he can play.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:30 PM   #5296
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different guy. The Rockies have a pitcher named that too. weird huh
i thought he was just spelling his name wrong. i really need to get some sleep lol
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:22 PM   #5297
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i thought he was just spelling his name wrong. i really need to get some sleep lol
Actually, you both did.

Its Clay Buchholz and Taylor Buchholz. Red Sox and Rockies respectively, no relation.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:24 AM   #5298
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I didn't realize the lack of respect the Rox are getting!
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:56 AM   #5299
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I didn't realize the lack of respect the Rox are getting!
Oh, I think the Crimson Hose fans are giving some credit to the Rockies, however begrudgingly. The fact is that until the Rockies walk the walk in the Series, they will not get the same respect that the "Old" money gets. Funny, the Crimson hose had not won a WS for 86 years and they win one a couple of years ago, and now they are "old hands" in the WS play. One thing is certain, if the Rockies win it all, the Sawks' fans will be able to handle it because they have had a lot of experience in that department.

Some people see Fenway as historic, romantic and loaded with nostalgia. I see it as a rather small, quaint relic of days gone by. But then, it's their crib and they can call the rules they wish. They could even move the right field fence in a bit so that their lefties can have a better chance to get homers..... Oh, wait. They did that already for Williams (23 feet).
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:18 AM   #5300
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I was talking to my gal about Fenway's left field (green advertisement) and the chance it has (or lack thereof) to contain Holiday's power!!! not going to happen
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