supposed Iranian Mortar round bears english markings

[Dudeskey]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...1/wiran511.xml



China-made rounds sold to russia are 82mm rounds, but wtf do I know...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Urinal_Cake

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...1/wiran511.xml



China-made rounds sold to russia are 82mm rounds, but wtf do I know...

more of that great pre war intell that got us into Iraq

[Dudeskey]

yep, and more related...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=4772

Pentagon Caught Red Handed in an attempt to Frame Iran: Iran Does Not Manufacture 81MM Mortar Shells

Pentagon carelessness fabricating bogus “evidence” against Iran is really quite stupendous. As I wrote here yesterday, the 81mm mortar shell offered up to the complaisant corporate media as “evidence” Iran is supplying weaponry to the Shi’a of Iraq is an obvious ruse, as the date on the proffered shell does not follow the Muslim calendar and other markings are in English when it only makes sense they would appear in Persian script.

But it gets worse.

As a recent email points out, Iran does not manufacture 81mm mortar shells. According to a report offered by the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, connected to the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the neocon Brookings Institute, the smallest mortar produced by Iran is the 107mm M-30. This information is included in the JCSS’s “Middle East Military Balance,” updated last February. It can be read in this PDF file on page 15. According to JCSS, “The Middle East Military Balance has been the most authoritative source on Middle Eastern Armies since 1983.” It is quite fortunate for us the hubris-filled neocons care not to double check their engineered lies—erroneously described as a “machining process”—before unleashing them on an unwitting public.

As Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini told the Associated Press, the “United States has a long history in fabricating evidence,” an undisputed fact more than underscored by the lead-up to the Iraq invasion when the neocons claimed Iraqi weather balloon trailers doubled as biological weapon labs and clumsily recycled a student’s homework as evidence Saddam was dabbling in weapons of mass destruction.

Considering the shoddiness of the mortar ruse, it makes perfect sense so-called “experts” involved in the scam told “a large gathering of reporters” (more accurately described as script readers and errand boys) “they not be further identified,” lest blame be delivered to their doorstep.

“Why are US officials hiding behind the cloak of anonymity when presenting the most detailed evidence yet that Iran is supplying anti-US forces in Iraq with weaponry?” muses Eason Jordan. “After weeks, if not months, of US official planning to present a damning ‘dossier’ of incriminating evidence against Iran, and after this same US administration presented us with lopsided, erroneous information about the capability and evil intentions of the Saddam Hussein regime, the best the US government can give us today is incendiary evidence presented at a Baghdad news conference by three US officials who refuse to be quoted by name?…. The American people deserve straight talk from identified US officials.”

Of course, such “straight talk” will not be forthcoming—not now or after Iran is destroyed, as Iraq was destroyed before it.

Maybe, if we are lucky, at some point in the future, the names of these “experts” will emerge in the course of a new Nuremberg trial.

Addendum

Iran does not manufacture 81mm mortars—but Pakistan does. Compare the photo on this death merchant catalog page with the one offered up as “evidence” against the Iranians. Minus the nosecone and fins at the bottom, it is almost a dead ringer, excuse the metaphor (see enlargement here).

Is it possible the Pentagon neocons, in their zeal to finger the Iranians and thus kick start World War Four, as they fondly call it, are using a Pakistani mortar and attributing it to Iran? Considering the long and sordid history of collaboration between the CIA, Pentagon, and Pakistan’s nefarious ISI, this is likely the case.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Video on what Iran is supposedly supplying to Iraq...

VIDEO


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6353489.stm

[bendog]

The Brits say they have stuff of Irans they took off the shiaa. I'd like to see there intell. NPR had a guy (ex cia now with the brookings, yeah lib) who said the forensics is pretty fool proof in terms of knowing who made what, but the US has not yet made the actual hardware available for indep anaylis, and the admin is not exactly know for telling the truth.

I do wonder where the IEDs that are basically shaped charges are coming from. Heretofore, it's been mostly the sunnis using them.

[elsid13]

I don't know anything, but remember the Iranians military was outfitted by US in the 70s and got arms in the Iran-Contra Deal. I know that they are actively searching for US military parts to support thier F14s and have old Hawk SAM systems. That was reported in the news recently

Unfortunately I no longer have free subscription to Jane's to say or nay. But
global security has listing of mortar rounds- and it very possible to that Iran purchase the rounds on secondary markets with the shell made original by the Brits (thus the English)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/mortar_c.htm

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by elsid13

I don't know anything, but remember the Iranians military was outfitted by US in the 70s and got arms in the Iran-Contra Deal. I know that they are actively searching for US military parts to support thier F14s and have old Hawk SAM systems. That was reported in the news recently

Unfortunately I no longer have free subscription to Jane's to say or nay. But
global security has listing of mortar rounds- and it very possible to that Iran purchase the rounds on secondary markets with the shell made original by the Brits (thus the English)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/mortar_c.htm

Yep, entirely possible one of our arms dealers sold it to them also.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Yep, entirely possible one of our arms dealers sold it to them also.

I don't think the big defnse firms would just because the wouldn't want to risk being banned from US defense spending. But it if there were FMS that went to approved country- Saudis, Egypt, etc- it very possible that those are US made mortars. There is very big market for US arms in the world. and there are alot of people that don't care who get them.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by elsid13

I don't think the big defnse firms would just because the wouldn't want to risk being banned from US defense spending. But it if there were FMS that went to approved country- Saudis, Egypt, etc- it very possible that those are US made mortars. There is very big market for US arms in the world. and there are alot of people that don't care who get them.

Absolutely not one of them, I'm talking about the market that isn't regulated.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Absolutely not one of them, I'm talking about the market that isn't regulated.

That what I referring to on the secondary markets. So I guess we're are in agreement. I just don't want some- who names won't be mentioned- going around saying there no way it could be Iranian because it has English on the casing.

Back to the story- I think it very possible that the Iranians are supporting the Shiite insurgency because it fits their tactics in the past.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by elsid13

That what I referring to on the secondary markets. So I guess we're are in agreement. I just don't want some- who names won't be mentioned- going around saying there no way it could be Iranian because it has English on the casing.

Back to the story- I think it very possible that the Iranians are supporting the Shiite insurgency because it fits their tactics in the past.

Why wouldn't they after all the ass whippings at the hands of the saddam and sunnis they had to take. This is great opportunity Bush has handed to them to get what they couldn't have before.

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Yep, entirely possible one of our arms dealers sold it to them also.

Arms dealer- meaning the CIA perhaps?

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Urinal_Cake

Arms dealer- meaning the CIA perhaps?

ding ding ding

[alkemical]

http://www.iramig.ir/Products/Mortar%20Bombs.htm

This web page is being waved around to "prove" that Iran does make 81mm mortar rounds like the one the US Government is trying to use to justify an invasion of Iran.
Take a good look at the soldiers and weapons at the very top of the page. They look Iranian to you? And why does an Iranian company put together a web page where their own country is obscured from view on that world map?

Check the spelling on the tabs. "Miscellancous"? "Caliber" uses the American spelling, rather than "Calibre." And Tehran is spelled "Tahran" on the contact page. This web page was assembled in a rush.

Take a look at the page source in your browser. The images and directories on the server are all in ENGLISH.

The phone numbers on the contact page are all 7 digit numbers. But in July of 2005, Iran switched over to an 8-digit phone system.

And finally, the traceroute traces the IP not to a business, but to a university!

Information related to '213.176.96.0 -
213.176.96.255'

inetnum: 213.176.96.0 - 213.176.96.255
netname: MUT-AC-IR
descr: Malek Ashtar University
country: IR
admin-c: SR3653-RIPE
tech-c: MR6958-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: IROST-MNT
mnt-lower: IROST-MNT
mnt-routes: IROST-MNT
source: RIPE Filtered

person: Shapour Rahimi
address: Malek-Ashtar University Tehran Iran
phone: +98 21 22944490
nic-hdl: SR3653-RIPE
source: RIPE Filtered

person: Masoud RanjbarZade
address: Malek-Ashtar University Tehran Iran
phone: +98 21 22944490
nic-hdl: MR6958-RIPE
source: RIPE Filtered

Information related to '213.176.64.0/18AS15611'

route: 213.176.64.0/18
descr: IROST-route
origin: AS15611
mnt-by: IROST-MNT
mnt-lower: IROST-MNT
source: RIPE Filtered

[TailgateNut]

What so damn sad is that there are still a few remaining US citizens (some on this MB) who will swallow this spoonfed fabricated "evidence" with out gagging.
The problem with this administration is that they continue to pass GO and COLLECT MONEY on their one way trip to hell!

[Spider]

If Bullshít was music , bush and co would be the entire brass section

[bendog]

With Sadr in Tehran (maybe, prolly not) I think we're one Bourbon on the Rocks from bombing Iran.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by bendog

With Sadr in Tehran (maybe, prolly not) I think we're one Bourbon on the Rocks from bombing Iran.

Is that Bush's preferred drink? Those of us with a pulse DO realize, come hell or high water, we are bound and determined to bomb the **** out of Iran. They just need to conjure up a few more reasons, bring back the "terror alert", and we'll bo off on our next adventure.

[bendog]

I don't know what he liked, but wild turkey would seem to fit.

The sanctions on Iran's nukes are coming up. Plus, the npr story I linked on the other thread is a pretty correct history of how things unwound. Bushii was totally unprepared for the shia not accepting a sectarian govt, and the sunni reacted violently, with al queda chiming in. There have been repeated reports of us having contact with the sunni insurgency, and offering a peace, despite the deaths they've cause to our guys. But Sadr won't make nice.

Bushii's been trying to force Iran into attacking us for years, and so far they've played him and cheney for drunken stooges. Given his temper of yesterday's press conference, I'd guess anything is possible.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by Urinal_Cake

Arms dealer- meaning the CIA perhaps?

No actual I was thinking it was one of number of foriegn dealers, including those in the old Soviet Union, that resold the stuff. USA is the biggest arm dealer in the world, and by it nature a lot of our stuff gets to whole bunch of people, and that doesn't mean that we supply them.

[John Pusinsky]

"Coalition forces have seized IEDs and components that were clearly produced in Iran." One example shown was a Iranian 81mm mortor shell with english markings and a western date. Many of you have not done your research and have bought into the idea that this is all disinformation. Well I have done my homework and the mortor is indeed an Iranian made mortor known as the 81 mm HM15 produced by Defence Industries Organization (D.I.O.) , affiliated to the Ministry of Defence and Armed Forces Logistics was established in 1924 and it's entire capital belongs to the government of I.R.Iran Contact info marketing@diol.org www.diomil.ir

You can see the English labeled products by going out to www.diomil.ir

Here is a description:

81 mm HM15
Hadid 81mm mortar launchers are of unrifled and barrel-loading type with 360o of firing field.
Because of possessing high shooting angle, this weapon enables to fire from behind of obstacles.
In regions where routs are impracticable, the mortar can be taken apart and carried by infantry.
Due to its simple structure, it can be erected and operated only by two or three persons.

hadid mortar 81mm ammunition

ILLUMINATING
This Mortar Bomb is intended for illuminating a desired point or area and consists of a time fuze, thin-walled steel body-tube, parachute, steel tail cone and fin assemblies containing propellant increment charges, ignition cartridge and propulsion cartridge.
A tail cone is inserted into the body tube and is held in position by four equally spaced shear pins.
The illuminant assembly consists of a first-fire charge and an illuminant contained in a box board case.
The parachute assembly is attached to the illuminant assembly casing by a steel suspension wire.
it's the white bombs of the pic.

81 mm LONG RANGE
DIO has improved his normal type Mortar Bombs to achieve Long Range ones of 60mm and 81mm.
The improvement is not only in the range but also in their performance.
With more volume of explosive material, the new types have more explosion power and respectively much better fragments and finally resulting to better performance.
All these changes are achievable without any changes to the mortar Launchers. are the 2 green and the 2 brown bombs on the pic.


81 mm HIGH EXPLOSIVE & SMOKE
Both HE and smoke types of 81 mm Mortar Bombs have a symmetrically streamlined steel body with a welded steel eight-fin tail unit screwed to the rear end.
A primary cartridge fits into the end of the tail tube and increment charges can be clipped into the fins. are the 2 light green bombs and 1 dark green bomb on the pic.

[alkemical]

*cough*

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17265231/site/newsweek/

[N.O.Bronco]

The funny thing with all this nonsense is the point made by a couple weapons experts ive come across in the media recentlly(radio, online). Basically they bring up an intresting point. That these IEDs are not all that difficult to make, its really just some garage rehashing of the old stuff and bam you got yourself some armor penetrating IEDs. One even went as far as saying that he finds it very suspicious because the ease of creating these weapons is such that, creating a large network of smuggling them in is pretty futile. When they already have countless caches of weapons from saddams old bunkers that all iran feasiblly needed to do was send over a few instruction manuals and grocery list for supplies. It is that easy he said to make these IEDs

[Cito Pelon]

I can guarantee that there are munitions being stolen/hijacked from the US, Brits, Poles, Danes, Italians that are being used against the same. The US has been hesitant to supply the bonafide Iraqi forces for fear those weapons will be turned against US troops. There's been hundreds of thousands of US-armed Iraqi deserters, and they took their US-supplied weapons and ammo with them when they deserted. It's a fiasco, always has been since day one, never had a chance of resulting in even a fool's notion of "victory."

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by John Pusinsky

"Coalition forces have seized IEDs and components that were clearly produced in Iran." .

Well, my turn to wade in:

Coalition forces have seized weapons made in Russia, China, France,
England, Germany, and the United States. Just about anybody and
everybody has supplied weapons to Iraq at one time or another.
That some from Iran would turn up isn't that unusual, considering
Iran is right next door. Doesn't mean the upper levels of the
Iranian government were in on it. Doesn't mean they weren't.
But just finding some weapons lying about doesn't prove anything,
other than there are weapons all over the place in Iraq.