Here's a single trade that helps both lines and snags a 1st or 2nd round RB as well

[footstepsfrom#27]

OK...first of all I'm not enthused about the prospect of picking up another 32 year old has been to plug holes in the D-line...are you? And second, I don't think Shanny will spend a #1 there since he almost never does...so I did some digging around the NFL to see if I could find a hidden gem we might get a reasonable shot at...and also somebody that will fit into Jim Bates system...massive interior tackles and speed on the outside. I tried to find a trade that made a lot of sense and solves an immediate need for both trading partners.

I think I've found our man.

This probably passed unnoticed here, but I think this is a definite opportunity.

Detroit has lost starting running back Kevin Jones for at least the first half of next season with a foot injury he sustained in December (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9988518) and the team had hoped he'd make it back in time for the opener but that's not going to happen now, which is why the Lions are looking at the mediocre free agent marekt for running backs. How bad does Detroit need a runner? Worse than any team in the NFL. The 2006 Lions were...

1) Dead last in the NFL in rushing (a pathetic 70 yard per game)
2) Dead last in rushing attempts (86 fewer than Cleveland)
3) Dead last in rushing 1st downs
4) Tied for 28th in yard per carry (3.7)
5) Tied for 28th in rushing TD's (9)

All this was BEFORE they lost their leading rusher. All this is on a team with 2 1000 yard receivers to take the pressure off the running game

Can you get much worse than that?

The word out of Detroit is that they like Adrian Peterson but they're concerned about his durability and might be leery of taking a runner than high in the draft. It's also possible they'd rather take either Joe Thomas with the 2nd pick or else move down a few spots if they thought they could work it out to still get Brady Quinn. The Lions need a QB almost as bad as they need a runner...maybe worse.

Enter Denver...with Tatum Bell. He's fast...VERY fast...and will look even faster on the Detroit artificial turf. Tatum doesn't seem to be an instinctive runner in the stretch zone blocking scheme. Maybe he's better suited to a traditional run blocking scheme instead. Moving Tatum to Detroit would let the Lions avoid the risk of taking Peterson that high, and it would let them buy time till Jones returns, at which time they could move to a 2 back system and take the pressure of both of them by letting Tatum do what he does best...be the change of pace guy. Jones can catch the ball (over 600 yards receiving in 11 games last year)...Tatum...not so much. Perfect fit. If Tatum maintains his 1000 yard production rate and Jones matches his...Detroit should upgrade their running game significantly and still let them get either Thomas or Quinn.

What could we get in return? Well we can start with a 3rd round draft pick for sure. He's definitely worth that to a team dealing from the position of weakness that the Lions are. Toss in the fact that Matt Millen is the 2nd worst GM in the NFL and we might even be able to sqeeze a 2nd out of them for a guy who averaged over 5 yards a carry on grass. But that's not all I want...I want a BIG UGLY for the D-Line...

How 'bout this one?



Who is this guy? Anthony Bryant; 6'3", 335 lbs, backup DT for Detroit who stepped in when pro bowl DT Shaun Rogers went down in 2006 in the season's 6th game. Bryant was a lowly 6th round pick of the Tampa Bay Bucs in 2005, a draft class for defensive tackcles that included New England's Vince Wolfork, Chicago's Tommy Harris and San Diego's Igor Olshansky. Bryant didn't exactly distinguish himself...he was ranked 39th out of 40 DT's...and Denver's current free agent fill in Anton Gordon ranked 23rd...he's not a pass rusher either. Not exactly a reason to get excited huh?

Not so fast...

Bryant doesn't rush the passer very well. What he does do is eat up space and play the run very well while freeing somebody else to rush. When Cory Redding started at right defensive end in 2004 and 2005, he was about as mediocre as a pass rushing DE as it gets...totaling just 4 sacks in 2 years. In 2006 he moved inside to DT, where it's much harder to pick up sacks...next to the heralded Shaun Rogers, and once again did absolutely nothing for 6 games...no sacks. But Rogers got hurt, and in came Antonio Bryant in his place. Playing next to Bryant, Redding rang up 8 sacks from the DT position in the next 10 games...2nd among all NFL DT's next to Warren Sapp, and he led the NFL over the last 8 games. I was curious about this anonomous dude...so I did a little checking on Bryant's fall in the 2005 draft and found some interesting stuff: http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/bryant_anthony

It's possible that like a lot of big defensive linemen (Minnesota's Pat Willilams for example), this guy might just be a late bloomer who is about to break out, and he might be just what we need right between Warren and Elvis. With Rogers coming back and 3 other reserve DT's on the roster, Detroit can afford to send him our way if they're getting a 1000 yard back in return. Here's why I think he might be the answer we're looking for in the interior D-Line:

First of all, Bryant droped in the draft becaue he had a bad combine in 2004and coupled with academic issues and a problem keeping his weight below 350 lbs at times, which impacted his endurance, he got pushed down the draft list. That does not mean he's stupid or a bad athlete. In fact this guy not only got his degree, he's now working on his Masters as well, so he's obviously not stupid. Athletically, he was out of shape for his workouts for some reason, but he's now one of the strongest players in the NFL. He benched over 505 lbs in college, an Alabama school record, and at the combine, even though not in good shape, he squatted an impressive 755 lbs...now up to 775 lbs. he also clocked a 5.2 40...keep in mind this is a 350 pounder out of shape running that.

In high school Bryant was a phenomenal athlete...and I do mean phenomenal...in both football and basketball as well as track. In football he was a USA Today 1st Team All American, Parade Magazine and Super Prep Dream Team 100 an outstanding basketball player who earned Parade Magazine All American recognition there also with 19 points and 12 rebounds a game...this from a guy who was over 300 pounds...and on top of being named Alabama's top defensive player, he played tight end on offense and caught 15 passes for 440 yards and 8 TD's. In track he won the state 1A championship in the shot put with a throw of 55' 3"...basically he was a total animal.

Bryant's started only a few games in the NFL, but in his first game against Green Bay he had 5 tackles...and he got better in 2006 after getting cut and picked up by the Lions. When you put it all together...his size, strength, youth (he's 25), athletic ability and the way that he seemed to make Corey Redding a better player, plus the fact that he'd be cheap to acquire and isn't making a lot of money...I think he's a great fit. He'll eat space inside and allow Warren to be a better pass rusher, plus keep double teams off Elvis.

Picking up a 3rd will replace the one we gave up in the Cutler trade, giving us significantly more draft leverage to move up, and we can package that pick with our #21 to move up a few spots if we need to and maybe grab Penn State OT Levi Brown or Michael Bush...and if both are gone we can still snag a safety in the 1st round at #21, then come back with the Penn State runner and an O-line guy in rounds 2 and 3. The main point however, is that we can bulk up nicely inside at DT and still address at least 2 of our 3 remaining problems in the draft, and we do it all without having to overpay a free agent in the final stages of his career.

Thoughts...?

[Cito Pelon]

TB has some skills to go along with his speed. If the team did not need to upgrade other positions more, I would say do the trade. It's a lateral trade seems to me is what you're saying?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

TB has some skills to go along with his speed. If the team did not need to upgrade other positions more, I would say do the trade. It's a lateral trade seems to me is what you're saying?

TB just doesn't fit as an every down back in this system, but Detroit's desperate for a back and he might just shine in another system, expecially on turf. They need him more than we do and we need Bryant more than they do...plus we get a pick in the deal that gives us greater leverge. Win/Win all the way around...and if we pick up Bush we get a power inside runner to go with Mike Bell...if not we can probably move up high enough to pick up Levi Brown...which is the guy I really want out of this draft.

[chrisp]

I think that's a very intriguing suggestion. the thing I like about it is that we don't give up a huge amount, which makes it a viable possibility.

Thing is, the broncos do tend to keep an eye on people they've evaluated for each draft, and if they rate them and they become available later on. If they ever saw this guy as a good fit for them, they could be interested in him, but if not they will have other plans...

Of course, we have a brand new D-line coach and D-coor, so that could really shake up the ideas about the kind of people we are after.

Good job on that suggestion - I'm not saying its likely to come off, but it is just the kind of thinking we need. Most people just drool over the big names and try to concoct half-baked schemes to move up in the draft, truth is however, that won't happen and what we need is a diamond in the rough like this.

[Dedhed]

I think #34 overall is a complete pipe dream for Tatum. #66 is possible, but not with an added player from Detroit. If we're looking for this Bryant kid and a pick it's probably a 4th or 5th rounder from Detroit.

[BroncoInferno]

Wow; it had to have taken at least four or five hours to dream up and then type that remote senario. At least. You must have been bored to tears.

[Tombstone RJ]

I guess it's a reasonable trade scenario. But Denver would have to deal with Millen, and Millen really isn't that good of a GM (I'm going for the understatement of the entire thread here). So, it will never happen.

Now, if the Broncos offer Tatum Bell in a trade for Detroit's second round pick, Millen might consider that. I wonder if Sundquist is balsy enough to go Mano-y-Mano with Millen... I can here Ted now: "C'mon Matt, you'd be getting an explosive, dynamic RB that is perfect for your team, I'm talking a 2000+ yard RB. All we want is your 2nd. That's it. That's all we want. What do you say, want to get 2000 yard RB for a second round pick? Tell you what Matt, I'll even take that fat slob Bryant off your hands to sweeten the deal...."

[BombsOverBaghdad]

WOW!!

Well thought out and well reasoned -- good work. What I particularly like about your thoughts is that you dared to venture out of the normal thought process of our only likely trade partners are Houston (with Kubes there) and the Redskins.

[ludo21]

good idea.

I didnt read all 6 paragraphs, but Im not sure I agree.

Maybe we get a steal in Bryant, but im more leery of taking a nobody.

[usedupbraids]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Orange_Beard]

We would have to toss in a couple of wideouts.

[broncs2bowl]

Good suggestion but I not so sure about giving our leading rusher for some Gap filling nobody....dont get me wrong he could do very well for us, but I just dont think its worth it

[Conklin]

contradictory tho...scared of peterson cuz injury prone but would want tatum cuz he's not?

[Dukes]

Just wanted to give you props for the research and work you did on this. If we could get a 3rd rounder from them then it'd consider it.

[Dempsey Dog]

Originally Posted by Conklin

contradictory tho...scared of peterson cuz injury prone but would want tatum cuz he's not?

True, but there is a lot less pressure in trading a 3rd and a nobody d-lineman for an injury prone Tatum than drafting an injury prone AP in the top five.

Overall, I think this is an interesting scenario. The risk is that if we make this trade we are leaving ourselves a bit exposed at RB. We either need to be really sure we will be able to get a guy we are targeting in the draft, haveve a FA under wraps, or feel a guy likes Cobbs is a solution if we miss out on a RB in the draft.

[Bronco Billy]

First, nice research.

Detroit did look good stopping the run last year; at least when they played Denver in the preseason. I haven't seen a lot of this guy, but if he's a solid pass rushers and plays the run well - I'm all for it.

[Bronco Billy]

Originally Posted by Orange_Beard

We would have to toss in a couple of wideouts.

Maybe they'll want Kircus!

[Broncoman13]

Originally Posted by ludo21

good idea.

I didnt read all 6 paragraphs, but Im not sure I agree.

Maybe we get a steal in Bryant, but im more leery of taking a nobody.

I'm not concerned about him being a nobody... I'm concerned that the Lions will realize what FS did and want to keep him. You get a guy that opens things up like that and chances are you're not gonna just let him walk.

We'd never get a 2nd from Detroit for Tatum. I know Tatum is a 1000 yard back and has incredible speed, but he's an underachiever in most's opinion. He's a 215 lb RB with 4.3 speed playing for the Denver Broncos... yet he can't out rush Olandis Gary in our system. I'm sure that throws up red flags all over the place. Then again, we had a lot go wrong on the line so perhaps that will be factored in the equation.

Overall, I'd love to do the deal FS presented. A 3rd from Detroit is basically a low 2nd. Guys like Tony Hunt, Jay Moore, Q. Moses, and Weddle could all be available at the beginning of round 3.

One thing I will add. The only way I'd move Tatum is if we got a guy in FA that we felt could be the #1 man. Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, Fred Taylor... somebody that we feel is going to get the bulk of the carries. Going into the draft with only Nash and Mike Bell is not a option. We'll end up reaching on somebody and that's not good.

[Broncoman13]

For the record, I'd take a 3rd staight up from Detroit for Tatum Bell. Again, I think we'd need to have a guy signed that we consider the #1 prior to trading him for anything though.

What's everybody's feelings on trading a low pick or perhaps even Jake Plummer for Fred Taylor?

[BombsOverBaghdad]

Originally Posted by BroncoMan13

I'm not concerned about him being a nobody... I'm concerned that the Lions will realize what FS did and want to keep him. You get a guy that opens things up like that and chances are you're not gonna just let him walk.

We'd never get a 2nd from Detroit for Tatum. I know Tatum is a 1000 yard back and has incredible speed, but he's an underachiever in most's opinion. He's a 215 lb RB with 4.3 speed playing for the Denver Broncos... yet he can't out rush Olandis Gary in our system. I'm sure that throws up red flags all over the place. Then again, we had a lot go wrong on the line so perhaps that will be factored in the equation.

Overall, I'd love to do the deal FS presented. A 3rd from Detroit is basically a low 2nd. Guys like Tony Hunt, Jay Moore, Q. Moses, and Weddle could all be available at the beginning of round 3.

One thing I will add. The only way I'd move Tatum is if we got a guy in FA that we felt could be the #1 man. Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, Fred Taylor... somebody that we feel is going to get the bulk of the carries. Going into the draft with only Nash and Mike Bell is not a option. We'll end up reaching on somebody and that's not good.

Agree with everything, until the end................ I do not want an old retred at RB. RB is the one position that we could reasonably expect a rookie to contribute right away. And, I would argue that AP, Lynch, Bush, Leonard, or even Hunt or Irons would likely contribute at (a bare minimum) the same as we could expect from Tater.
If Shanny is so inclined, he will be able to pick up a good RB from this draft.

[Rohirrim]

Do the Broncos have anyone on the training team big enough to keep that dude away from the buffet table? Imagine this scenario: Warren and Bryant are standing in line and there's only one steak left on the grill. Chaos ensues. Hell, he looks like he could play a three gap.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

I think #34 overall is a complete pipe dream for Tatum. #66 is possible, but not with an added player from Detroit. If we're looking for this Bryant kid and a pick it's probably a 4th or 5th rounder from Detroit.

That might be true if we were talking about a team that wasn't so desperate for a running game, and second, if the GM's name wasn't Matt Millen. In this trade scenario, I only plan for a 3rd, which is just 2 picks into the 3rd round...so even if we only get a 3rd, it's nearly a 2nd rounder anyway.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Wow; it had to have taken at least four or five hours to dream up and then type that remote senario. At least. You must have been bored to tears.

30 minutes.

[ZONA]

Who knows but I really like the fact you took some time to make an interesting post to generate some refreshing chit chat. Not some stupid rehashed burnt out crap like "Is Mike Bell Our Starter Next Year".

Good job bub.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by BroncoMan13

I'm not concerned about him being a nobody... I'm concerned that the Lions will realize what FS did and want to keep him. You get a guy that opens things up like that and chances are you're not gonna just let him walk.

That's a good point, and this was my concern as well. So I looked at the rest of the Lions DT rotation and found out that backup DT Cleveland Pinkley played for new coach Rod Marinelli in Tampa Bay in 2003 and 2004. Coupled with the fact that they get their pro bowler Shaun Rogers back this year, and have 2 other guys in that rotation, they could afford to let Bryant go if it meant fixing the running game without having to risk the #2 pick on Peterson.

We'd never get a 2nd from Detroit for Tatum. I know Tatum is a 1000 yard back and has incredible speed, but he's an underachiever in most's opinion. He's a 215 lb RB with 4.3 speed playing for the Denver Broncos... yet he can't out rush Olandis Gary in our system. I'm sure that throws up red flags all over the place.

That might be true, or it might be how fans look at it. I'm thinking that the old axiom that any back can run in this system is not true. Denver's coaches have stated that it takes a certain type of back to succeed in this system, so it follows that some backs might be able to succeed in a traditional blocking scheme but not in this system. I think Tatum might be one of those guys because it's his vision and ability to cut back when the hole opens that he struggles most with. Besides...Tatum didn't fail. He's just shown he's not a guy who can get the ball 25 times a game, and if he's sharing time with Kevin Jones, he won't have to. He can return to 12-15 carries a game and split time as the change of pace guy, which is where he's best.

One thing I will add. The only way I'd move Tatum is if we got a guy in FA that we felt could be the #1 man. Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, Fred Taylor... somebody that we feel is going to get the bulk of the carries. Going into the draft with only Nash and Mike Bell is not a option. We'll end up reaching on somebody and that's not good.

Michael Bush will probably be thre at #21, though I'd prefer to package something to move up and get Levi Brown, then see if Hunt drops to us in the 3rd. Also...we might be underestimating how much improvement Mike Bell is likely to make in his 2nd year. It would not suprise me that much if we drafted a runner and Bell beat him out anyway. He showed enough this year to think that it's a possibility.