Putin Accuses U.S. of Inciting Arms Race

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, it's absolutely true but why wait until now to speak out, Bush started it almost as soon as he got into office.

-------------------------------------------------------
Putin accuses U.S. of inciting arms race
By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer

MUNICH, Germany - Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday blamed U.S. policy for inciting other countries to seek nuclear weapons to defend themselves from an "almost uncontained use of military force" — a stinging attack that underscored growing tensions between Washington and Moscow.


"Unilateral, illegitimate actions have not solved a single problem, they have become a hotbed of further conflicts," Putin said at a security forum attracting senior officials from around the world.

"One state, the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way."

The Bush administration said it was "surprised and disappointed" by Putin's remarks. "His accusations are wrong," said Gordon Johndroe, Bush's national security spokesman.

In what the Russian leader's spokesman acknowledged was his harshest criticism of the United States, Putin attacked Bush's administration for stoking a new arms race by planning to deploy a missile defense system in eastern Europe and for backing a U.N. plan that would grant virtual independence to Serbia's breakaway province of Kosovo.

Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., who was also attending the conference, described Putin's remarks as "the most aggressive speech from a Russian leader since the end of the Cold War."

CONT

[Cito Pelon]

Putin is just as guilty of pushing an arms race as the US. Bush actually tried to be friends with Putin early in his Presidency. It was a stupid mistake, since Putin used that respite in US pressure on Russia to carve out a bigger niche in world power. I'm not a big fan of GWB since he's misplayed a great hand of cards, but I'm sorry, Putin is looking to rebuild the USSR, Slug. Putin is stirring up trouble all over the place, has been for a long time as head of the KGB before he became Russia's leader. I don't think you should be looking at him as a voice of reason and sanity.

[REB]

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion. The north won the civil war and stopped slavery. We won WWII and saved the world from fascism and helped to stop the holocaust. We have been the leader in the world when it comes to humanitarian relief for people all around the world.

Are we perfect? Of course not. We're human. But c'mon. You can't believe that we have worse intentions then countries like Russia, China, Iran, NK.

There was a commercial for a show coming on soon on LinkTV that looked very interesting. It's about the U.S. and China fighting for the fuel neccesary to keep their big war machines going.

Believe it or like it or not I think that we will see a confrontation with China in the not to distant future.

The middle east is building up for a big war. We have about 500,000 troops all together in the area and China and Russia can and will step in when they feel it's neccesary. We will all see how all of this plays out. Will there eventually be a stand down and let's work things out like civil grown up human beings or will we all fight to just show how wrong the other side is. I think even the way discussions go on in forums like this will give you the answer. We have become incapable of talking to each other with respect or even the slightest bit of civility. So, there ya go. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

[cutthemdown]

In a way we are creating an arms race. Anytime you push the envelope on technology that will happen. China is building a lot of advanced weaponary and I never really trust Russia. Hopefully we get N Korea to disarm the nukes and at least it would be one small victory for a president that really could use some good news.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by REB

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion. The north won the civil war and stopped slavery. We won WWII and saved the world from fascism and helped to stop the holocaust. We have been the leader in the world when it comes to humanitarian relief for people all around the world.

Are we perfect? Of course not. We're human. But c'mon. You can't believe that we have worse intentions then countries like Russia, China, Iran, NK.

There was a commercial for a show coming on soon on LinkTV that looked very interesting. It's about the U.S. and China fighting for the fuel neccesary to keep their big war machines going.

Believe it or like it or not I think that we will see a confrontation with China in the not to distant future.

The middle east is building up for a big war. We have about 500,000 troops all together in the area and China and Russia can and will step in when they feel it's neccesary. We will all see how all of this plays out. Will there eventually be a stand down and let's work things out like civil grown up human beings or will we all fight to just show how wrong the other side is. I think even the way discussions go on in forums like this will give you the answer. We have become incapable of talking to each other with respect or even the slightest bit of civility. So, there ya go. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Yup, the best deal is to marginalize the fat-mouthed nuts on the far Left and the far Right that stir things up and f things up for everybody else.

[baja]

I never thought as an American I would ever find myself in agreement with a Russian leader but regardless of his own intentions or actions around the world and at home Putin is right on the arms score, so very sad to say.

[baja]

Originally Posted by REB

/b>

Are we perfect? Of course not. We're human. But c'mon. You can't believe that we have worse intentions then countries like Russia, China, Iran, NK.

There was a commercial for a show coming on soon on LinkTV that looked very interesting. It's about the U.S. and China fighting for the fuel neccesary to keep their big war machines going.

Believe it or like it or not I think that we will see a confrontation with China in the not to distant future.

The middle east is building up for a big war. We have about 500,000 troops all together in the area and China and Russia can and will step in when they feel it's neccesary. We will all see how all of this plays out. Will there eventually be a stand down and let's work things out like civil grown up human beings or will we all fight to just show how wrong the other side is. I think even the way discussions go on in forums like this will give you the answer. We have become incapable of talking to each other with respect or even the slightest bit of civility. So, there ya go. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

That was then but things have clearly changed drastically Reb. Know anyone with a used bomb shelter for sale?

[cutthemdown]

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion

America is like being Superbowl Champs. Everyone wants what we have. The fact is America does a lot of good, but get on her bad side and it won't end up good for your country in the long run. I understand the differences in domestic policies more then international ones when it comes to Americans. I mean don't you want America to be the number 1 superpower? As soon as the Romans grew weary of fighting barbarians to the north they retreated south and built a huge wall. The emperor then pulled what was left of the northern army from Germania after it was basically completly slaughtered. The Roman people were in shock that a whole Army of Roman soldiers could be completly wiped out. The Romans decided to not fight in other lands, pull back and defend. Problem was those barbarians to the North and East never stopped coming and Rome fell. I'm no scholar on Rome and this is way compressed and leaves a million things out I'm sure. Just trying to make a point if your not getting stronger then you are getting weaker.

[REB]

Originally Posted by baja fan

That was then but things have clearly changed drastically Reb. Know anyone with a used bomb shelter for sale?

Of course things have changed but, the premise I think remains the same. I think we can help make things better............

not the way we're going about it but, we can and still do.

I think we help more countries take care of their peeps then we do our own, like Katrina for example. Alot of money has been lost there even by American Red Cross....but that's another story.

Anyhow, I believe what most of us Americans want is good. It's how do we make things as good as they can be for as many as possible?

I'm good so, that leaves everybody else right? So? What? Let's all discuss the best ways to do it. Let's see what happens.............if anything.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by REB

Of course things have changed but, the premise I think remains the same. I think we can help make things better............

not the way we're going about it but, we can and still do.

I think we help more countries take care of their peeps then we do our own, like Katrina for example. Alot of money has been lost there even by American Red Cross....but that's another story.

Anyhow, I believe what most of us Americans want is good. It's how do we make things as good as they can be for as many as possible?

I'm good so, that leaves everybody else right? So? What? Let's all discuss the best ways to do it. Let's see what happens.............if anything.

There are ways to improve any situation. Keeping a level head as you're doing is probably the best way in the long run.

[REB]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion

America is like being Superbowl Champs. Everyone wants what we have. The fact is America does a lot of good, but get on her bad side and it won't end up good for your country in the long run. I understand the differences in domestic policies more then international ones when it comes to Americans. I mean don't you want America to be the number 1 superpower? As soon as the Romans grew weary of fighting barbarians to the north they retreated south and built a huge wall. The emperor then pulled what was left of the northern army from Germania after it was basically completly slaughtered. The Roman people were in shock that a whole Army of Roman soldiers could be completly wiped out. The Romans decided to not fight in other lands, pull back and defend. Problem was those barbarians to the North and East never stopped coming and Rome fell. I'm no scholar on Rome and this is way compressed and leaves a million things out I'm sure. Just trying to make a point if your not getting stronger then you are getting weaker.

I hear ya man... Well, one thing we shouldn't be doing is giving ultimatums unless we are directly threatend or can really see it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by REB

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion.

I'll never understand the "we're right no matter what" mentality of people in this country that don't question our leadership.

Bush has created an incredible world hatred towards the American people and our country! He has abandoned nuclear treaties, space treaties and global warming treaties. He has started a new cold war by threatening countries across the globe and by spending hundreds of billions on a missile defense shield program that automatically requires every country in the world to move to protect themselves from us.

The damage he has done and is doing will take many years to repair if it can be repaired. It isn't "blame America first" it is exactly what it is, blunder after blunder that will haunt us for many years to come.

[baja]

Originally Posted by REB

Of course things have changed but, the premise I think remains the same. I think we can help make things better............

not the way we're going about it but, we can and still do.

I think we help more countries take care of their peeps then we do our own, like Katrina for example. Alot of money has been lost there even by American Red Cross....but that's another story.

Anyhow, I believe what most of us Americans want is good. It's how do we make things as good as they can be for as many as possible?



I'm good so, that leaves everybody else right? So? What? Let's all discuss the best ways to do it. Let's see what happens.............if anything.

i'm sure that is true trouble is our government has been hi-jacked

[N.O.Bronco]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I'll never understand the blame America first opinion

America is like being Superbowl Champs. Everyone wants what we have. The fact is America does a lot of good, but get on her bad side and it won't end up good for your country in the long run. I understand the differences in domestic policies more then international ones when it comes to Americans. I mean don't you want America to be the number 1 superpower? As soon as the Romans grew weary of fighting barbarians to the north they retreated south and built a huge wall. The emperor then pulled what was left of the northern army from Germania after it was basically completly slaughtered. The Roman people were in shock that a whole Army of Roman soldiers could be completly wiped out. The Romans decided to not fight in other lands, pull back and defend. Problem was those barbarians to the North and East never stopped coming and Rome fell. I'm no scholar on Rome and this is way compressed and leaves a million things out I'm sure. Just trying to make a point if your not getting stronger then you are getting weaker.

what your discussing, getting stronger constantlly, thinking your the best and running around imposing your will is at the very core a Ultra-Realist strategy of foeiegn policy with an imperialistic push.

One tried in past by not just Rome(which failed) but also by the balance of power system inplemented in Europe in 1815. basically the premise was concern yourself with your well being and whats within your boarders and focus on increasing your power and aiming for the top and care not for others and world opinion. This of course ended up failing because what happens is each country tries to outdo the other and in the modern case of America under Bush this is pretty much the policy we have now. Increase our power and approach unilaterally and care less about the rest of the world in a very ignorant sort of manner. of course in the balance of power system what happened was it turned Europe into a powder keg of countries distrusting and/or thinking they had to get more and more powerful to compete. Thus events followed and boom you get WWI. Its eerily similar to me with America and Iran, China and others. especially Iran. The other problem with this strategy is you end up creating lots of enemies in the process as is shown now with the general worldview of America. history says this ultra-realist approach never ends well.

I think Putins hit the nail on the head regardless of my feelings for him personally and America needs to take note(in 08 since Bush is about as thick as a brick when it comes to realizing failings). And John McCains remarks along with Liebermans reek of that same ideal and mindset and its pretty scary.

[REB]

OK guys. I respect but your it's all bush's fault mentality just like some of us were yelling it's all Clinton's fault. But let's be serious. The president in our system doesn't make hardly any of the decisions. He has the power that the congress gives him. The congress is at least anyhow (and I see this diminshing myself) responsible for making the laws. They are our representatives. It's a democratric republic, not a democracy.



The Bush thing is really boring. How would Clinton do right now? How would Carter do right now?. Do you know?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by REB

The Bush thing is really boring.

It should be disgusting to you not boring, what he has done to this country.

[N.O.Bronco]

not to mention the ultra pessimist in me sees this iran thing as being pretty dangerous. I mean you have the two sides slowlly escalating to counter the other, Iran most likelly meddling in Iraq. But then you have China who shot down our sattelite with their new star wars like system and an army the size of the U.S.'s population. Then you have Russia with some clear animosity toward us and our imperillistic unilateralism at the moment.

Now to bring it together to get to my point. China and Russia just signed a huge deal to get oil from Iran so they are definatlly in the business of seeing iran remain stable. Now you have the rumours were revving up attacks on Irans supposed Nuclear sites. This will probably be done with our best bombs, the smart bombs probably. those same bombs that have been shown in Iraq to be 90% inaccurate with regards to their target. This whole situation starts looking like a powder keg doesnt it? To me this is a dangerous proposition for Bush to get into becasue if we end up hitting the oil lines guess whos gonna be knocking on our door wanting to know what the **** happened to their oil?

{ultra-pessimistic rant over}

[N.O.Bronco]

Originally Posted by REB

OK guys. I respect but your it's all bush's fault mentality just like some of us were yelling it's all Clinton's fault. But let's be serious. The president in our system doesn't make hardly any of the decisions. He has the power that the congress gives him. The congress is at least anyhow (and I see this diminshing myself) responsible for making the laws. They are our representatives. It's a democratric republic, not a democracy.



The Bush thing is really boring. How would Clinton do right now? How would Carter do right now?. Do you know?

were talking foreign policy and Clinton got it very right!! Bush may have done it worse then anybody in history. MY beef is what i posted in my two other responses not Bush as a person but Bush and his policies and mentallity

If Clinton were president right now he would excercise diplomacy across the board and we wouldnt have even been in Iraq(not enough evidence for him, well and pretty much anyone other then Bush/cheney). our lack of Diplomacy, bullying and a uniltilateral approach is what is pissing everyone off right now

[REB]

Originally Posted by baja fan

i'm sure that is true trouble is our government has been hi-jacked

Vote Libertarian

[baja]

Originally Posted by REB

Vote Libertarian

If only it were that simple!

I just don't how so many here do not see how really close we are to hell on earth.

[N.O.Bronco]

Originally Posted by baja fan

If only it were that simple!

I just don't how so many here do not see how really close we are to hell on earth.

Because its American Idol season!!!!!!

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

were talking foreign policy and Clinton got it very right!! Bush may have done it worse then anybody in history. MY beef is what i posted in my two other responses not Bush as a person but Bush and his policies and mentallity

If Clinton were president right now he would excercise diplomacy across the board and we wouldnt have even been in Iraq(not enough evidence for him, well and pretty much anyone other then Bush/cheney). our lack of Diplomacy, bullying and a uniltilateral approach is what is pissing everyone off right now

Well, I see your points, and they're good points. It's a game. Geopolitics is a game. It's the game for the highest stakes, which makes it so interesting. But it is still a game. China and Russia play it as a game. They have no regard for the stakes in blood and treasure. Their leadership has little responsibility to their stakeholders. The US does. Their leadership just wants to win in the long run, regardless of how many hands they lose and how badly their bluffs cost them in the short run. They can keep their seat at the Big Table of geopolitics simply by jailing or killing their internal detractors that want a more level-headed approach. Same with the Mohammedans.

It's been a long, tough battle with China and Russia and the Mohammedans all my life. I'm not impressed with how GWB and his gang of self-interested wanna be tyrants has waged the battle on my behalf - they're as much interested in feathering their own nests as they are winning the battle, that's plain to me - but it is nonetheless a battle against China, Russia and the Mohammedans. They want us dead and gone, there is no question about that.

So, what's the next step in the battle? We can't just give up. We have to keep battling. Let China and Russia win? No way. No way. We have to keep the big democracies with us, and try to add more as NATO and the EU are trying to do in Eastern Europe. We have to get more support in Central and South America, that's where we should "appease" instead of trying to make them conform to the Monroe Doctrine of 1812.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

It's been a long, tough battle with China and Russia and the Mohammedans all my life. I'm not impressed with how GWB and his gang of self-interested wanna be tyrants has waged the battle on my behalf - they're as much interested in feathering their own nests as they are winning the battle, that's plain to me - but it is nonetheless a battle against China, Russia and the Mohammedans. They want us dead and gone, there is no question about that.

So, what's the next step in the battle? We can't just give up. We have to keep battling. Let China and Russia win? No way. No way. We have to keep the big democracies with us, and try to add more as NATO and the EU are trying to do in Eastern Europe. We have to get more support in Central and South America, that's where we should "appease" instead of trying to make them conform to the Monroe Doctrine of 1812.

You are either a typical American -- or a psychopathic madman.

Sad to say, there isn't two bits of difference between the two.

The average American is clue less about what the policymakers in Washington have been doing in the world -- the troubles the US has been causing. Americans are always the LAST to know what their leaders have been up to.

And this started long before Bush.

FACT: Russia and CHina have sponsored a UN resolution for years to draft a new space treaty banning ALL weapons from space. Is this the action of an aggressive enemy? No. They have tried to persuade the US to sit down and negotiate. But Bush has refused.

The US (and Israel) are the only 2 nations on earth opposing this treaty, which would ban all weapons fropm space.

WHY Did Bush oppose this treaty? Because he is peace loving?

Hell no! As a nation the US has descended into a swamp of corruption and evil.

We are now in the worst of all possible situations this planet has ever known.

We have a "leader" who can scarcely recite his ABC's who has his finger on the trigger of more destructive power than in all of human history. By comparison Hitler and Stalin were little bo peeps.

This mad man who is our president thinks God speaks to him and is telling him to nuke Iran.

Face it. Deal with it.

Get on the hot line to your state rep -- and tell him to stop Bush before he makes the human race obsolete.

Here's the Capitol Hill Switchboard number:

202- 224 - 3121

Do it on Monday morning. The lives of your children hang in the balance.

Congress must draw a line in the sand. Bush must know that if he attacks Iran he will be impeached.

[REB]

Originally Posted by baja fan

If only it were that simple!

I just don't how so many here do not see how really close we are to hell on earth.

Do what now?

[REB]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

It should be disgusting to you not boring, what he has done to this country.

To me, he hasn't done anything then any other president would do. Ask for the ok and get it and then do it.