Define Liberal and Conservative

[N.O.Bronco]

I kinda sick of coming onto this board and reading ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments and criticisms that liberalism or conservatism is evil or the mentality that either one is always wrong, with that said I am putting forth a questionarre to everyone on this board. In your own words define what a liberal and a conservative is.

Now i dont want some of you saying liberals are america hating evil commies as ive seen people on this board try and say. I would like to know what ideals make a person liberal/conservative, what policies they believe in and why the heck those two have anything to do with Iraq, and if you say they do what does each side in your mind believe.

There seems to be so much labeling going on in every thread i read and so many times people throw those words around and i think everyone here has a different interpretation. So i would like to settle this so everyone can get on the same page with what each of these viewpoints really are.

[freak6]

Conservatives want small gov't, low taxes, low regulation, and fiscal responsibility. They often forget the enviroment if it gets in the way of thier money, and forget thepoor, unlike thier boy Je'sus 'El Savvviorrrr' Christoooo!!!!! They are often very hypocritacal and have lots of scandals.

Liberals want the gov't to spend money to help out the people, push for funding of schools, push for helping the minorities, push equal rights, and want to save the world from humanity. Liberals are secular in policy as opposed to the conservatives that have been taken over by the Christian Coalition due in large part to the ignorant South.

Neo-cons are fkn morons that do little thinking before taking action as to the consequences of thier actions, they have group think and therefore are radically dangerous to the welfare of our nation, and our world. They pretend to be conservative and pander to the Christian right for money and votes, but they are the greediest SOBs that spend freely while offering tax breaks to thier rich cronies as individuals, and to corporations like the massive one Exxon got. They should be considered armed and dangerous (cheney) and shot on site. jking, but not really.

[Cito Pelon]

Here's a scale:

Far Left(Marxist)<---------Lib--------------Mod--------------Con---------->Far Right(Fascist)

Democrats are in the Liberal-to-Moderate range.
Republicans are in the Conservative-to-Moderate range.

The rest are the nuts that F things up for everybody else.

[Spider]

very fine line between the 2 really .......
let me tell you why I am a democrat ........
I am pro union , I am american workers first and foremost ......I am for the public school systems , I want universal health care .......
I dont mind safety nets , hell I would rather pay for them , then American troops as targets ,
Republicans are the $ first and foremost ..........

[defenseman]

Interesting snapshots of both being put on display by all your takes. I can tell you one other tidbit, both of them try real hard to point the finger at the other. I'm hoping it will end some day. But kinka doubt it will........dman

[W*GS]

Liberals want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

Conservatives want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

They aren't "opposite ends" of a linear spectrum.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Liberals want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

Conservatives want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

They aren't "opposite ends" of a linear spectrum.

and anarchist , just dont believe in a mace , they believe the love from their fellow man will dictate good behavior .......... although a certain person here wont leave his wallet at a McDonalds to back his theory ..............

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

and anarchist , just dont believe in a mace , they believe the love from their fellow man will dictate good behavior .......... although a certain person here wont leave his wallet at a McDonalds to back his theory ..............

I'm not an anarchist - talk to Josh/amesj/clavicula about that.

Suffice to say that the differences between liberals and conservatives are quite small when viewed from the perspective of those of us who are truly interested in a free society in which individual rights are properly protected.

And that drives you social engineers batty.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

I'm not an anarchist - talk to Josh/amesj/clavicula about that.

and I dont drive truck , I am a paid tourist with a real ****ty travel agent .....

Suffice to say that the differences between liberals and conservatives are quite small when viewed from the perspective of those of us who are truly interested in a free society in which individual rights are properly protected.

And that drives you social engineers batty.

no not batty , we just understand that in the real world , you have to have laws and structure .........

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

we just understand that in the real world , you have to have laws and structure .........

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.

if you say so chief , I wont dig up the quotes , but they was over gun control , you dont have a problem with a felon owning a gun , just sell the gun to anyone , any kind of gun ........
that right there is anarchy...........no nothing scares`me about real freedom , but what does scare me is idiots that think felons should own guns , Most people cant even handle an abortion decision , or alot of people will rob you blind , like I said , if you believe in your stance , leave the wallet at a public place , see how fast your garden of eden , goes into fantasy land ........

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

if you say so chief , I wont dig up the quotes , but they was over gun control , you dont have a problem with a felon owning a gun , just sell the gun to anyone , any kind of gun ........

Since you won't (and can't) dig up a quote from that supports your assertion above, you're just being a bald-faced liar. But what else is new?

The rest is just another one of your rambling strawmen...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Since you won't (and can't) dig up a quote from that supports your assertion above, you're just being a bald-faced liar. But what else is new?

The rest is just another one of your rambling strawmen...

so it must be another W*GS that is against Gun control .......... and I am on dial up , so I wont go dig up the quotes ................ PS you can bull**** some of the newbies here , they dont know you , but many others know your stance on gun control ........ But then your stance was so idiotic , I dont blame you from distancing yourself from it ............

[W*GS]

The "I'm on dialup" is the lamest excuse...

When you can figure out how to get criminals to submit to the thousands of laws on the books regarding guns, we'll talk gun control. Until then...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

The "I'm on dialup" is the lamest excuse...

When you can figure out how to get criminals to submit to the thousands of laws on the books regarding guns, we'll talk gun control. Until then...

untill then what ?
might be a lame excuse , but it is better then being the one that forgets what he says and needs peoples help to remind him ............ dont feel lonely..I have a disp........err travel agent that is the same way, forgets everything ..... I deal with you people all the time

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.

It is true, i'm an anarchist. That being said however - I do feel there is a "need" for laws - based upon the fact that most people can't function fully for themselves without being told what to do. My "compromise" (if you will) is the U.S. Constitution.

It's such a shame that people are not able to handle true freedom though.

[enjolras]

Wow it took literally 1 post for this to devolve into exactly the type of conversation that N.O. Bronco was talking about. The whole thing is kind of sad at this point...

Conservatives (even the religious ones) are far from evil, and Democrats (even the religious ones) are far from the America haters they are cast as. What's really sad about this is that Americans have bought into the culture of rivalry and hate that the party leaders use to CONTROL this country. They have people on both sides lining up to throw stones because those conservatives are out to destroy the environment and stuff us all in concentration camps! (Meanwhile those loony democrats are mired in a homosexual conspiracy to kill as many babies as possible while destroying America and replacing it with a communist state).

*sighs*

I can't wait until Americans pull their heads out of their collective asses and actually take this country back. Stop being puppets already.

[alkemical]

it's a choice though, and most don't *want* to do anything about it.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by enjolras

Wow it took literally 1 post for this to devolve into exactly the type of conversation that N.O. Bronco was talking about. The whole thing is kind of sad at this point...

Conservatives (even the religious ones) are far from evil, and Democrats (even the religious ones) are far from the America haters they are cast as. What's really sad about this is that Americans have bought into the culture of rivalry and hate that the party leaders use to CONTROL this country. They have people on both sides lining up to throw stones because those conservatives are out to destroy the environment and stuff us all in concentration camps! (Meanwhile those loony democrats are mired in a homosexual conspiracy to kill as many babies as possible while destroying America and replacing it with a communist state).

*sighs*

I can't wait until Americans pull their heads out of their collective asses and actually take this country back. Stop being puppets already.

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

Because something is illegal, doesn't mean criminals won't break *another* law....

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

Raise the penalty for a felon possessing a firearm. 50 years to life might work, no parole. And then freaking enforce it. got to swing the pendulum hard in one direction for it to end up somewhere close to the middle where you want it eventually....dman

[Spider]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Because something is illegal, doesn't mean criminals won't break *another* law....

So then why lock your doors ? Locks are not 100% fool proof , people still get in ....... why bother ?

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

So then why lock your doors ? Locks are not 100% fool proof , people still get in ....... why bother ?

I lock them to make it that more difficult. then again, I as you believe if they want to get into your house, they certianly will find a way if motivated....dman

*then again, If I'm home, it'll be the last home they break into, I can gaurantee you that. they'll be history, once they are identified for what they are.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by defenseman

I lock them to make it that more difficult. then again, I as you believe if they want to get into your house, they certianly will find a way if motivated....dman

*then again, If I'm home, it'll be the last home they break into, I can gaurantee you that. they'll be history, once they are identified for what they are.

Then why not on Gun control ? This attitude of well we cant stop it , might as well do nothing , is worthless .......... put some measures in make it hard for Felons , limit where they can buy firearms ...........
I dont advocate banning of all guns , law abiding citizen should have the right to bear arms , One type of gun I am against is a fully automatic weapon , those should be reserved for the military ..........

[SPfloppy]

Liberal= Educated enough to form opinions based on utopean ideas, but not educated enough to know they won't work in the nation we live in

Conservative= Educated enough to know what's best for all of us because thier priest said so in church last week. Educated enough to know when to use military force, but not educated enough to know when to stop doing so