More Guns Equal More Murders in U.S. - The Orange Mane

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-12-2007, 07:05 AM

I think this has been obvious for sometime now.

-------------------------------------------------------
More guns equal more murders in U.S. states: study
Thu Jan 11, 9:58 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American states where more people own guns have higher murder rates, including murders of children, researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health reported on Thursday.

The study, certain to provoke arguments in a country where gun ownership is an important political issue, found that about one in three U.S. households reported firearm ownership.

"Our findings suggest that in the United States, household firearms may be an important source of guns used to kill children, women and men, both on the street and in their homes," said Matthew Miller, assistant professor of health policy and injury prevention, who led the study.

His team used data from a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey of 200,000 people in all 50 states.

After dividing the states into four groups based on how many households had guns, the researchers found the states in the highest quartile of firearm ownership had overall homicide rates 60 percent higher than states in the lowest quartile.

In states with the most guns, firearm homicide rates were 114 percent higher, the researchers reported in the February issue of Social Science and Medicine.

More than 200 million guns are privately owned in the United States, according to the Justice Department.

In September, the FBI released 2005 figures showing violent crime had risen 2.3 percent nationally -- the first increase in four years.

alkemical · 01-12-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I think this has been obvious for sometime now.

-------------------------------------------------------
More guns equal more murders in U.S. states: study
Thu Jan 11, 9:58 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American states where more people own guns have higher murder rates, including murders of children, researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health reported on Thursday.

The study, certain to provoke arguments in a country where gun ownership is an important political issue, found that about one in three U.S. households reported firearm ownership.

"Our findings suggest that in the United States, household firearms may be an important source of guns used to kill children, women and men, both on the street and in their homes," said Matthew Miller, assistant professor of health policy and injury prevention, who led the study.

His team used data from a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey of 200,000 people in all 50 states.

After dividing the states into four groups based on how many households had guns, the researchers found the states in the highest quartile of firearm ownership had overall homicide rates 60 percent higher than states in the lowest quartile.

In states with the most guns, firearm homicide rates were 114 percent higher, the researchers reported in the February issue of Social Science and Medicine.

More than 200 million guns are privately owned in the United States, according to the Justice Department.

In September, the FBI released 2005 figures showing violent crime had risen 2.3 percent nationally -- the first increase in four years.

it's not a problem with guns. the problem is why does our culture enforce that using a gun is a solution to any dispute.

Oh yes, and of course - it's for the chiiiiildren.

Garcia Bronco · 01-12-2007, 10:55 AM

I would imagine that the hard data is skewed to come up with these results. Or rather the headline. Gun saftey is important, and children shouldn't be playing with them and that starts with the parents. Even if the kids still play with the guns and blow their own heads off....it's really just a form of natural selection.

"The kid who eats too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own"

-George Carlin

Spider · 01-12-2007, 11:30 AM

guns are not the problem , problem is too many kids that were exposed to second hand smoke are pissed off .............

W*GS · 01-12-2007, 11:31 AM

This "study" was funded by the Joyce Foundation, well-known for its strident efforts to infringe on our RKBA.

Typical.

Merlin · 01-12-2007, 12:18 PM

Despite all the knowledge we have gathered on suicide with regards to drugs, alcohol and depression, the best predictor in the states (by far) is...

Is there a gun in the house.

Take it for what it is. This is not meant as a comment for or against guns, just that there is an issue. I don't know how well that predictor works in Canada (which is nice place to compare since it shares many similarities with the states, only in some cases less excessive scale; e.g. gun ownership). One fact is clear, the gun regulations in the states wrt security (i.e. how and where they should be kept, etc.), training, and ownership leaves a lot of room for improvement. For example in Canada you are required to keep the ammunition and gun in separate locked locations; i.e. if you use a gun locker, the locker keep both in separate locked areas. Although it may be a simplistic difference, per capita, Canada has far fewer incidents regarding guns, even when you account for differences in ownership. So the culture that reinforces that type of security mentality also must have an effect on irresponsible uses of firearms (i.e. accidental deaths).

Merlin · 01-12-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

This "study" was funded by the Joyce Foundation, well-known for its strident efforts to infringe on our RKBA.

It is too simplistic to criticise a study by how it is funded (it matters, but it should not be your only criteria). Better valid criticisms consider how the data was gathered/analyzed. Also what counted as fact and meaningful; i.e. what counts as real to the researcher. All of those should be clearly determined by reading the findings any well written research article.

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-12-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

This "study" was funded by the Joyce Foundation, well-known for its strident efforts to infringe on our RKBA.

Typical.

So what? Are the numbers wrong?

bendog · 01-12-2007, 12:40 PM

If we assume that more hunting oriented / rural states have more guns per household, like Wyoming and Texas for example, it'd be interesting to see how the homicide rate per household varies from a state like Wyo with no real urban areas or gang crime to a place like Texas, where Hou is generally the murder capital of the world. Similarly, it might be interesting to look at murder rates on a county by county basis in a place like Tex or La where there are such crime ridden cities, but also with rural / hunting areas.

In short, murder may not be so bad, depending upon who's getting murdered ... though innocent civilians abound ... rip DW and I hope they get the a-hole who shot you and let him enjoy life in Canyon City.

Spider · 01-12-2007, 01:52 PM

I still support gun control , Handguns , rifles , Shotguns = can stay .........
Assualt weapons and Rosie O'Donnel need to hit the road ............

W*GS · 01-12-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

So what? Are the numbers wrong?

They've most likely been massaged to get the result the Joyce Foundation wanted a priori.

W*GS · 01-12-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

One fact is clear, the gun regulations in the states wrt security (i.e. how and where they should be kept, etc.), training, and ownership leaves a lot of room for improvement. For example in Canada you are required to keep the ammunition and gun in separate locked locations; i.e. if you use a gun locker, the locker keep both in separate locked areas. Although it may be a simplistic difference, per capita, Canada has far fewer incidents regarding guns, even when you account for differences in ownership. So the culture that reinforces that type of security mentality also must have an effect on irresponsible uses of firearms (i.e. accidental deaths).

Gun ownership rates have increased in the US for many decades now, while the rate of gun accidents has dropped. How can that be?

I and many others will never concede our right to effective self-defense. Period.

alkemical · 01-12-2007, 02:40 PM

Wags,

Like him or not - but in bowling for columbine (m. moore) - he goes over how the % of guns own per capita in canada is very equiv. to the USA.

So it would be somewhat equal in a proportion, yet gun crime in CA is lower.

that's why IMO it's a culture issue - where this country was founded on the gun, etc -

elsid13 · 01-12-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

I still support gun control , Handguns , rifles , Shotguns = can stay .........
Assualt weapons and Rosie O'Donnel need to hit the road ............

Man don't you understand you need that AK47 to get those pesky squirrels. And there ain't nothing better then a Mac-10 when quail hunting.

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-12-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

They've most likely been massaged to get the result the Joyce Foundation wanted a priori.

The numbers are probably correct though (numbers of guns, number of murders) wouldn't you say? I mean is there any reason for the Harvard School of Public Health to "massage" them?

W*GS · 01-12-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

The numbers are probably correct though (numbers of guns, number of murders) wouldn't you say? I mean is there any reason for the Harvard School of Public Health to "massage" them?

The authors have a long history of supporting anti-RKBA causes, and since the Joyce Foundation paid for the study, the Joyce Foundation got what it wanted.

HSPH also has a long history of being anti-RKBA. Probably something to do with it being full of hoplophobe leftists.

W*GS · 01-12-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Like him or not - but in bowling for columbine (m. moore) - he goes over how the % of guns own per capita in canada is very equiv. to the USA.

So it would be somewhat equal in a proportion, yet gun crime in CA is lower.

I trust Moore on guns like I trust gaffney on metallurgy or Bush on English grammar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

that's why IMO it's a culture issue - where this country was founded on the gun, etc -

If we can figure out how to get criminals to obey the existing gun laws, we'll have it fixed.

alkemical · 01-12-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

I trust Moore on guns like I trust gaffney on metallurgy or Bush on English grammar.

If we can figure out how to get criminals to obey the existing gun laws, we'll have it fixed.

Oh i agree about Moore - but his point were that GUNS weren't the problem. I'm not saying there wasn't his typcial grandstanding media whoring ego invoved - but you know what i mean.

Secondly, if that's a joke wags - i found it funny.

Spider · 01-12-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsid13

Man don't you understand you need that AK47 to get those pesky squirrels. And there ain't nothing better then a Mac-10 when quail hunting.

bring back the good ole days when Cross bows were all the rage

Dudeskey · 01-12-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

guns are not the problem , problem is too many kids that were exposed to second hand smoke are pissed off .............

Not enough people w/ guns to shoot back at the ****in' gangbangers...

epicSocialism4tw · 01-12-2007, 07:14 PM

The problem is, we arent reporting enough people to their local media to be tried in the court of public opinion and to ultimately lose their jobs because of that suspicion.

Heck, if everyone committed to malevolent actions on the internet, we all could make a difference, right?

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-12-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

The authors have a long history of supporting anti-RKBA causes, and since the Joyce Foundation paid for the study, the Joyce Foundation got what it wanted.

HSPH also has a long history of being anti-RKBA. Probably something to do with it being full of hoplophobe leftists.

Have a link for that?

Spider · 01-12-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urinal_Cake

Not enough people w/ guns to shoot back at the ****in' gangbangers...

the ole shoot back theory ..........Being one who has seen people shot ( my Dad , and a close friend ) it isnt pretty .......... but with proper training could be a plan

W*GS · 01-13-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Have a link for that?

http://www.jpands.org/hacienda/article8.html

and

http://www.reason.com/news/show/30225.html

01-12-2007, 07:05 AM	#1
Bronco_Beerslug Angling in the Deep Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains Posts: 24,281	More Guns Equal More Murders in U.S. I think this has been obvious for sometime now. ------------------------------------------------------- More guns equal more murders in U.S. states: study Thu Jan 11, 9:58 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American states where more people own guns have higher murder rates, including murders of children, researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health reported on Thursday. The study, certain to provoke arguments in a country where gun ownership is an important political issue, found that about one in three U.S. households reported firearm ownership. "Our findings suggest that in the United States, household firearms may be an important source of guns used to kill children, women and men, both on the street and in their homes," said Matthew Miller, assistant professor of health policy and injury prevention, who led the study. His team used data from a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey of 200,000 people in all 50 states. After dividing the states into four groups based on how many households had guns, the researchers found the states in the highest quartile of firearm ownership had overall homicide rates 60 percent higher than states in the lowest quartile. In states with the most guns, firearm homicide rates were 114 percent higher, the researchers reported in the February issue of Social Science and Medicine. More than 200 million guns are privately owned in the United States, according to the Justice Department. In September, the FBI released 2005 figures showing violent crime had risen 2.3 percent nationally -- the first increase in four years. Last edited by Bronco_Beerslug; 01-12-2007 at 07:07 AM..

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01-12-2007, 10:55 AM	#3
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 45,987 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	I would imagine that the hard data is skewed to come up with these results. Or rather the headline. Gun saftey is important, and children shouldn't be playing with them and that starts with the parents. Even if the kids still play with the guns and blow their own heads off....it's really just a form of natural selection. "The kid who eats too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own" -George Carlin

01-12-2007, 11:30 AM	#4
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	guns are not the problem , problem is too many kids that were exposed to second hand smoke are pissed off .............

01-12-2007, 11:31 AM	#5
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,491	This "study" was funded by the Joyce Foundation, well-known for its strident efforts to infringe on our RKBA. Typical.

01-12-2007, 12:18 PM	#6
Merlin Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,798	Despite all the knowledge we have gathered on suicide with regards to drugs, alcohol and depression, the best predictor in the states (by far) is... Is there a gun in the house. Take it for what it is. This is not meant as a comment for or against guns, just that there is an issue. I don't know how well that predictor works in Canada (which is nice place to compare since it shares many similarities with the states, only in some cases less excessive scale; e.g. gun ownership). One fact is clear, the gun regulations in the states wrt security (i.e. how and where they should be kept, etc.), training, and ownership leaves a lot of room for improvement. For example in Canada you are required to keep the ammunition and gun in separate locked locations; i.e. if you use a gun locker, the locker keep both in separate locked areas. Although it may be a simplistic difference, per capita, Canada has far fewer incidents regarding guns, even when you account for differences in ownership. So the culture that reinforces that type of security mentality also must have an effect on irresponsible uses of firearms (i.e. accidental deaths).

01-12-2007, 12:40 PM	#9
bendog Marginally Continent David Bowens, he'd be an upgrade Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 19,935 Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens	If we assume that more hunting oriented / rural states have more guns per household, like Wyoming and Texas for example, it'd be interesting to see how the homicide rate per household varies from a state like Wyo with no real urban areas or gang crime to a place like Texas, where Hou is generally the murder capital of the world. Similarly, it might be interesting to look at murder rates on a county by county basis in a place like Tex or La where there are such crime ridden cities, but also with rural / hunting areas. In short, murder may not be so bad, depending upon who's getting murdered ... though innocent civilians abound ... rip DW and I hope they get the a-hole who shot you and let him enjoy life in Canyon City.

01-12-2007, 01:52 PM	#10
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I still support gun control , Handguns , rifles , Shotguns = can stay ......... Assualt weapons and Rosie O'Donnel need to hit the road ............

01-12-2007, 02:40 PM	#13
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,691 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	Wags, Like him or not - but in bowling for columbine (m. moore) - he goes over how the % of guns own per capita in canada is very equiv. to the USA. So it would be somewhat equal in a proportion, yet gun crime in CA is lower. that's why IMO it's a culture issue - where this country was founded on the gun, etc -

01-12-2007, 07:14 PM	#21
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	The problem is, we arent reporting enough people to their local media to be tried in the court of public opinion and to ultimately lose their jobs because of that suspicion. Heck, if everyone committed to malevolent actions on the internet, we all could make a difference, right?