What the Heck is Wrong in Denver?

[epicSocialism4tw]

I do not live in Denver, and do not know the area well. These stories speak volumes about what's going on in the area's community of athletes and the groups of people who associate with them and/or frequent the same places. This is NOT an attempt to place any blame on the athletes involved, but just a broad question about what's going on in Denver. I know that this doesnt happen in the DFW metroplex.

from ESPiN:
"Last April, Nuggets guard Julius Hodge was shot while driving on Interstate 76 in Denver. In 2003, Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Joey Porter, who played at Colorado State, was shot outside a Denver sports bar."

These are the athletes involved indirectly in the events that facilitated the environment that led to the shooting death of Darrent: Kenyon Martin, Javon Walker, JR Smith, ...

[chaz]

Originally Posted by angryllama

These are the athletes involved indirectly in the events that facilitated the environment that led to the shooting death of Darrent: Kenyon Martin, Javon Walker, JR Smith, ...

where did you hear this?? these were the guys involved in the altercation before they left the club??

denver just has problems like any other city...

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by chaz

where did you hear this?? these were the guys involved in the altercation before they left the club??
denver just has problems like any other city...

They were at a party held by Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. The people that killed Darrent were at the same party. Javon Walker was there, and so were other Nuggets players.

The question is regarding what is wrong with that social group where athletes are being shot in Colorado?

[shakenbake]

whatever, who was the Cowboy's player that got shot while driving down the freeway just before the season started? It could happen anywhere.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by shakenbake

whatever, who was the Cowboy that got shot while driving down the freeway just before the season started. It could happen anywhere.

There was the Duane Goodrich garbage, but that was a different issue.

[chaz]

is an athlete getting shot at any more important than joe schmoe murder is something that happens everywhere

[Turf Shaman]

The fact that three athletes got shot in Denver is nothing more than a freak coincidence.

Why don't you compare actual figures between Denver and Dallas:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14503476/

Denver
2004: 87 murders 2,718 aggravated assaults
2005: 59 murders 2,673 aggravated assaults

Dallas
2004: 248 murders 7,863 aggravated assaults
2005: 202 murders, 7,783 aggravated assaults

I hope you don't think athletes should count more than other people...

Also, it's highly irresponsible of you to insinuate that Walker, JR Smith, or Kmart had anything to do with contributing to an environment that led to Darrent's murder without having facts. Please grow up before talking about grown up things.

[epicSocialism4tw]

No, you guys are missing the point. There are correlations between the situations of Porter and Williams.

[chaz]

Originally Posted by angryllama

No, you guys are missing the point. There are correlations between the situations of Porter and Williams.

how so? just cause they played football? or is there something substantial?

[shakenbake]

Originally Posted by angryllama

There was the Duane Goodrich garbage, but that was a different issue.

No I'm talking about Keith Davis the cowboys saftey. It was the second time he had been shot since 2003 in Dallas.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Cowboys safety Keith Davis was shot at 5:00 am on a Sunday morning, allegedly while "on his way to church"...later I seem to remember he'd been out late not up early. The Jimmy Johnson Cowboys teams had players charged with rape, drug possession, assault and DWI's. The Nuggets have some less than steller citizens on the team if you compare them to the Mavs but I don't know if there are any more than most NBA teams. The nature of young male professional athletes seems to lead them to risk taking behavior and the riches suddenly made by young guys who haven't had anything before contributes to that. I don't think that Javon, Marshall or any of the Nuggets contributed. We only know that the perpetrators were at the party. Were they invited or uninivited? Was the club filled with only people from that private party or others from the general public as well? Did they get there at the invitation of athletes or other people? Who knows what happened at this point. We do know that D-Will and his group tried to leave instead of engaging in a confrontation, which was the right thing to do.

Dallas is a much more dangerous city IMO than Denver...and have been ranked near the top of the most dangerous cities frequently. It's just a tragedy nobody at this point has any answers for.

[cutthemdown]

The problem is gang members aren't put away for life until they get caught killing someone. Until then they get 3 yrs for assault, 5 for attempted murder, 2-5 for burglary etc etc etc etc. Gangs need to be classified as terrorist organizations. Stick them all away for life.

[Tredici]

What a despicable thread.

[chaz]

Originally Posted by Tredici

What a despicable thread.

amen.

[Turf Shaman]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Dallas is a much more dangerous city IMO than Denver...and have been ranked near the top of the most dangerous cities frequently.

You can take out the IMO, the figures support your position. You have to factor in the population difference... Dallas has a population of approximately 1.2 million people while Denver has about 558,000. That combined with the figures I posted above (where Dallas has about 3 to 4 times the amount of violent crime) suggests Dallas has about double the per capita rate of violent crime. This is rough math, anyone can do more precise math themselves. But there is really no argument that Dallas isn't more dangerous.

Llama, the fact that it's happening to athletes is just a coincidence, as I already said. There is nothing to support another conclusion. Let's keep the focus where it belongs.

[anthonypacino]

Bad things happen all the time in all places. Sometime random sometime it's because a place or situation gets out of hand. Some athletes ride motorcycles without helmets, some carry weapons and associate with "questionable people" others finish degrees...they are all people just like us they make choices and decisions just like us. This is a tragedy to his family, friends and fans. It isn't about the city it's more about the state of the country that has sprialed out of whack where it's thought that killing or beating someone is a natural act if you are somehow angered by someones actions that displease the aggressor. Whatever "motive" these cowards had to commit this murder and attempted murders was in no way deserving of death. Jealousy, envy, non-respect whatever it was, how did killing people become the answer to these things? I feel like I'm rambling it's hard to put into words what is flying in my head.

[Breck Bronc]

Originally Posted by Tredici

What a despicable thread.

A few posters have shown their ass today. Add llama to the group.

[Pendejo]

Originally Posted by Tredici

What a despicable thread.

Not surprising when you take into account the thread's starter.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Cowboys safety Keith Davis was shot at 5:00 am on a Sunday morning, allegedly while "on his way to church"...later I seem to remember he'd been out late not up early. The Jimmy Johnson Cowboys teams had players charged with rape, drug possession, assault and DWI's. The Nuggets have some less than steller citizens on the team if you compare them to the Mavs but I don't know if there are any more than most NBA teams. The nature of young male professional athletes seems to lead them to risk taking behavior and the riches suddenly made by young guys who haven't had anything before contributes to that. I don't think that Javon, Marshall or any of the Nuggets contributed. We only know that the perpetrators were at the party. Were they invited or uninivited? Was the club filled with only people from that private party or others from the general public as well? Did they get there at the invitation of athletes or other people? Who knows what happened at this point. We do know that D-Will and his group tried to leave instead of engaging in a confrontation, which was the right thing to do.

Dallas is a much more dangerous city IMO than Denver...and have been ranked near the top of the most dangerous cities frequently. It's just a tragedy nobody at this point has any answers for.

I agree that Dallas in general is much more dangerous.

It's not necessarily the "city" that I am questioning here. It's the values and behaviors of the community of people that follow these athletes around. There is an atmosphere of the glorification of gun violence, and when you mix the competitiveness of men with social interaction, alcohol, drugs, and women in a party atmosphere (if you have ever been to one of these clubs late at night you know how crazy things get really quickly), you get a situation that could escalate violently to the point of death nearly every time that you visit one of these places.

It is not just Denver that is the problem, it's a problem that seems to be inherent in the social atmosphere around pro athletes. The list of pro or college athletes shot, shot at, or involved in a group of people who did the shooting seems to be never-ending, and growing steadily.

It's a real problem, and one that should be addressed. Unless, or course, you appreciate losing 24 year old success stories who could leave an impact on their communities for generations.

[Orange_Beard]

Originally Posted by angryllama

They were at a party held by Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. The people that killed Darrent were at the same party. Javon Walker was there, and so were other Nuggets players.

The question is regarding what is wrong with that social group where athletes are being shot in Colorado?

So you know who killed Darrent? I had not heard yet.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by anthonypacino

Bad things happen all the time in all places. Sometime random sometime it's because a place or situation gets out of hand. Some athletes ride motorcycles without helmets, some carry weapons and associate with "questionable people" others finish degrees...they are all people just like us they make choices and decisions just like us. This is a tragedy to his family, friends and fans. It isn't about the city it's more about the state of the country that has sprialed out of whack where it's thought that killing or beating someone is a natural act if you are somehow angered by someones actions that displease the aggressor. Whatever "motive" these cowards had to commit this murder and attempted murders was in no way deserving of death. Jealousy, envy, non-respect whatever it was, how did killing people become the answer to these things? I feel like I'm rambling it's hard to put into words what is flying in my head.

I know what you're saying. It is SOOOO frustrating to hear these things. I know some of the same people that Darrent hung out with. The main group of friends that Im speaking of was low-key. They would hang out in a middle class house and party inside (right across the street from me). I was friendly with all of them, and they showed respect. Darrent hung out over there as well.

I would feel the same way if any of them were killed tragically outside of a club. There are people that follow these athletes around that feel like they should be the one's with the women and the attention that the athletes get, and they try to compete with the athletes. I am not going to overlook the fact that guns are viewed as a way to compete in that community. If you are under 30, you should know how that aspect of the social world has changed.