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#1 |
Persona Non Grata
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,352
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![]() Now that the Iverson situation is settled, it's time to move on to the next superstar in need of a change of scenery, Kevin Garnett.
Any early stabs at where he'll land? |
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#2 |
A new beginning!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 34,238
Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP |
![]() I am sure he will want to move now since he couldn't get AI on his team. He really wanted him. I am saying it will be Indiana, or Chicago. Those are just stabs in the dark.
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#3 |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Springs
Posts: 4,498
Adopt-a-Bronco: Rock Hoover |
![]() Da Bulls
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#4 |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
![]() KG is overrated, IMO. I'm not saying he sucks, but a man of his talent and the players around him, they should be a lot better than they are.
He has a solid squad right now. Mike James and Ricky Davis both averaged 20pts per game before they landed in Minny. They have enough scoring (James, Davis and Garnett), rebounding (KG, Smith, Griffin), shooters (Hudson, Jaric, James), athletes (Foye, Davis, KG, Griffin, Blount) and a lockdown defender (Hassell) to win. The guy gets too many excuses for Minny's poor play. He is not a Alpha Dog type of athlete. He defers too much and 82games.com says he is weakest big in the league in the final two minutes (something like a 32% FG average). He's a great player, but only as a clear cut number two on a team. He just doesn't have it in him to takeover and demand the ball. |
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#5 |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
![]() But to answer your question, I think the Bulls and the GASP! the Celtics have enough to entice KG out of Minny.
I would not be heartbroken if we didn't land KG. If we got him, that means we had to give up Jefferson who is 10 years younger than KG. |
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#6 |
The Blizzard Man
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: California
Posts: 1,502
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![]() I'm not ready to move on....today is all about the Nuggets baby!
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#7 | |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mile High City
Posts: 15,099
Adopt-a-Bronco: M. Salah |
![]() Uh oh...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6293966 Quote:
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#8 |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
![]() Garnett wont be moved.
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#9 |
Requisite Nugs Die-Hard
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,335
Adopt-a-Bronco: Allen Iverson |
![]() Makes too much sense on many levels to not happen. That said, I hope he stays in Minny. If the Wolves get a good enough deal, they'll be a scary team (something like Gordon, Deng and PJ Brown). With Garnett, they're cap strapped and stuck with guys like Mike James (who? And that joke never gets old), Ricky Davis (who's just behind Steven Jackson in the craziness ratings) and Mark Madsen tied in for a while, they're stuck in purgatory.
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#10 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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#11 | |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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So are Nocioni and Kirk Hinrich. Da Bulls have the best young talent in the NBA. Last edited by epicSocialism4tw; 12-21-2006 at 01:35 PM.. |
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#12 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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Try to find a NBA GM that would take Deng and Gordon over Green and Jefferson. Al Jefferson is averaging 20 pts, 11 rebounds, and 2 blocks per game since he finally got to start. And the kid is only three years removed from high school. You are not going to find many 6'10" big men with his potential and ability in the NBA. Gerald Green (second year out of high school) is third in the NBA in 3 pt % and might be the best dunker in the league at 6'8" tall. Not that dunking predicts success, but it does show his athletic ability and the fact that he has a great jumper means that has the tools to be a great one. I would take those two guys over that midget Gordon and Deng (who is good) any day of the week. You are confusing experience for talent. If Green went to college for three years, and had three years of NBA experience under his belt like Gordon has, I would sure hope he would average more than 16 pts (BG). |
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#13 | |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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There is a difference between putting up numbers on a bad team and fitting into a system with the goal being playoff success. That's the difference between your Celtic youths and Chicago's proven youths. If you are interested in winning, you like Chicago's players. If you like the hopeful nature of having prospects with upside, you probably still like Chicago's players because they have shown more realization of that potential. Gerald Green and Al Jefferson are nice young players, but one would be a fool to trade talent like Chicago has in it's arsenal for either of them. Chicago is on the verge of being a champion because of those players. It would be quite stupid to trade any of them for one of the Celtic kids. Paul Pierce is probably the only player that they would want from Boston, and Ben Gordon is probably the only young player that they would part with to get him. |
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#14 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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Go read a Chicago Bull fans board, the first thing they gripe about is not having a 'go-to scorer'; a player than can take over games and create his own shot. Deng and Gordon do not fit that mold. They are great 2nd to 3rd options to have on a team. And Nocioni? That guy is like 28 years old, so he is not 'youth.' Like I said earlier, you are confusing experience for talent. Gordon and Deng are both, fine young players. Of this there is no doubt. But their upside is incredibly limited -- especially for Gordon. 6'2" shooting guards are not high in demand in this league. On the other hand, a 21 year old 6'10" C/PF like Jefferson is what everybody wants. Those types of guys are hard to come by. Therefore, their value is higher than a power three like Deng who cannot create off the dribble or a small two guard like Gordon. Right now, every single Chicago fan would trade Deng for Jefferson without batting an eye lash; especially since Jefferson blew up this past month. They are savvy enough to understand the difference between Deng and Jefferson. You can replace a Deng easily. Finding a guy like Jefferson is extremely tough. I don't think you would find a Chicago Bulls fan in the world that wouldn't trade Gordon and Deng for Green and Jefferson. Last edited by GonzoLays; 12-21-2006 at 05:54 PM.. |
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#15 | |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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#16 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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You are the same, dude. I remember why I hate having conversations with you. You act like a b****. A real freaking b****. Stupid comments. Same stupid comments you made in the Dirk for MVP thread. You can't change. |
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#17 | |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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I understand that bigs generate a certain value if they can put both shoes on the right foot and walk, but at the same time, no one is going to trade an excellent rotation player like Nocioni or Hinrich for one of those guys. Heck, Dampier got a 10 mil/year deal. That doesnt mean that he would be worth trading Hinrich for. It's great that you know alot about your own guys, but lets put things in proper perspective. |
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#18 |
Requisite Nugs Die-Hard
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,335
Adopt-a-Bronco: Allen Iverson |
![]() Gonzo, I totally agree that Green and Jefferson have the potential to be better than Deng and Gordon, I'm just not sure they'll reach that potential. I love Jefferson, but he's still wildly inconsistent. The question is if Minnesota would be willing to roll the dice on the potential for greatness or for the safe thing. Knowing Kevin McHale, he'd probably just trade Garnett for expiring contracts.
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#19 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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If Mchale is smart, he starts to shop KG right now; before KG demands a trade. I would look for young talent (preferably a big man), a couple of draft picks (since he has trade away all of his) and an expiring contract to make the deal work because KG earns 22 mill. The deal with Chicago doesn't make sense for Chicago, IMO. Let's say they do Gordon, Thomas, Deng and PJ Brown for Garnett. Who do they have left? Hinrich, Shefolosha, Wallace, KG, Nocioni, Duhon and Malik Allen. That lineup is a slight upgrade over what KG had in Minny sans Wallace. To me, the Chicago deal is unlikely. Boston on the other hand, is loaded with youth and the prized expiring contract of Theo Ratliff. We could send across Al Jefferson (the crucial big), Gerald Green (the tantalizing potential guy), their pick of a PG (Telfair, Rondo or West) and couple of draft picks. Then KG gets to lineup with a true superstar in Pierce, Kendrick Perkins, Wally Z, and whatever PGs they do not choose. That makes sense. If Minny were to take Chicago's deal, there is not much upside to it. Luol Deng is great, but he is going to be a 18-20 pt guy his whole career until he learns how to shoot from the outside. Tyrus Thomas is an undersized big (measured out to be 6'7" without shoes at the predraft camp) and Gordon is an undersized two guard. Not the the best deal in the world, IMO. Now, if they throw in their 2007 first round pick (New Yorks) then we will not be having this conversation. KG is theirs. But then again, it doesn't make much sense for Chitown to do it because their team is depleted with no cap room. |
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#20 |
Requisite Nugs Die-Hard
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,335
Adopt-a-Bronco: Allen Iverson |
![]() You know what your problem is Gonzo? You keep assuming NBA GM's are smart. HUGE mistake.
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#21 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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What deal would you have taken, Nuggs? Theo Ratliff (expiring contract), your pick of Telfair, West or Rondo, Gerald Green and Boston's 2007 first round pick/2009 first round pick OR Andre Miller and two late 2007 first round picks If you were Philly's GM, what deal would you take? All Nuggs homerism aside. |
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#22 | |
Requisite Nugs Die-Hard
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,335
Adopt-a-Bronco: Allen Iverson |
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#23 | |
Chad Kelly Is The One
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kelly's Irish Pub and Daycare
Posts: 5,882
Adopt-a-Bronco: Chad Kelly |
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Al Jefferson, after coming off emergency appendectomy surgery, was inserted into the starting lineup on December 9th. Here are his games 12.9 29 pts, 14 rebounds, 1 blk 12.11 14 pts, 12 rebounds, 4 blks 12.13 6 pts, 13 rebounds, 3 blks 12.15 28 pts, 10 rebounds, 0 blks 12.16 22 pts, 10 rebounds, 1 blk 12.20 13 pts, 11 rebounds, 4 blks 12.22 20 pts, 14 rebounds, 2 blks You call that a speck? A 6'10" big man (who actually has a back to the basket game) three years removed from high school putting up those kind of numbers is a speck? A speck? This guy is not some one shot wonder. Before he was inserted into the starting lineup, the Celtics were 5-13. Since then, 5-2. He is a impact player in the every sense of the world. Guys like Jefferson are 30 times harder to find than a undersized two guard like Gordon and wing player like Deng. Wing and twos are dime a dozen player therefore their value is nowhere near a legit big man like Jefferson who is putting up those kind of numbers at age 21. Its not even close. There is no debate here. Man, you have a unique ability to lull people into arguments with your stupidity. Just plain stupidity. |
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#24 |
Perennial Pro-bowler
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 880
Adopt-a-Bronco: Rick Upchurch |
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#25 | |
Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,002
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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Having an impact doesnt mean putting up numbers on a poor team, it means making plays that take your franchise to: a winning record, a record well above .500, the playoffs, playoff wins, conference titles, NBA titles. Let me know when Jefferson starts the Celtics along that path and we'll talk about impact player status. He may very well result in an all-star or a true franchise player, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it. If we're trading potential for superstars, let's trade Devin Harris for Gilbert Arenas. I'm hopping on that train right now! Im sure the Wizards would take Austin Croshere and Devin for Arenas. Last edited by epicSocialism4tw; 12-23-2006 at 03:57 PM.. |
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