Moving on, let the Kevin Garnett watch begin!!

[Clockwork Orange]

Now that the Iverson situation is settled, it's time to move on to the next superstar in need of a change of scenery, Kevin Garnett.

Any early stabs at where he'll land?

[theAPAOps5]

I am sure he will want to move now since he couldn't get AI on his team. He really wanted him. I am saying it will be Indiana, or Chicago. Those are just stabs in the dark.

[Master___Pain]

Da Bulls

[GonzoLays]

KG is overrated, IMO. I'm not saying he sucks, but a man of his talent and the players around him, they should be a lot better than they are.

He has a solid squad right now. Mike James and Ricky Davis both averaged 20pts per game before they landed in Minny.

They have enough scoring (James, Davis and Garnett), rebounding (KG, Smith, Griffin), shooters (Hudson, Jaric, James), athletes (Foye, Davis, KG, Griffin, Blount) and a lockdown defender (Hassell) to win.

The guy gets too many excuses for Minny's poor play. He is not a Alpha Dog type of athlete. He defers too much and 82games.com says he is weakest big in the league in the final two minutes (something like a 32% FG average).

He's a great player, but only as a clear cut number two on a team. He just doesn't have it in him to takeover and demand the ball.

[GonzoLays]

But to answer your question, I think the Bulls and the GASP! the Celtics have enough to entice KG out of Minny.

I would not be heartbroken if we didn't land KG. If we got him, that means we had to give up Jefferson who is 10 years younger than KG.

[BroncoMatt]

I'm not ready to move on....today is all about the Nuggets baby!

[RhymesayersDU]

Uh oh...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6293966

Big run lifts Lakers to win
Associated Press

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Dwane Casey felt helpless as he watched a 10-point lead disappear in the fourth quarter against the Los Angeles Lakers.

He knew he had to rest Kevin Garnett and Mike James a little longer before bringing them back in the game, but cringed as the Lakers' second unit dominated Minnesota's reserves.

What Casey needed was an Answer.

One day after losing out to Denver in the bidding for Allen Iverson, the Timberwolves were outscored 34-7 in the final period of a 111-94 loss to the Lakers on Wednesday night.

The fact that Bryant spent the first 8 1/2 minutes of the fourth quarter on the bench made the loss sting even more.

Vladimir Radmanovic and Maurice Evans combined for 16 points during a 25-2 spurt that erased Minnesota's 87-77 lead to start the final period.

"I'd love to play my starters for 48 minutes," Casey said. "But they have to rest."

One night after shooting just 6-of-19 from the floor and fouling out for the first time in more than a year in a loss to Chicago, Bryant scored 24 points on 10-of-17 shooting.

But it was Radmanovic and Evans who were the difference makers in this one.

Radmanovic hit two 3-pointers and Evans punctuated the surge against his former team with a dunk that gave the Lakers a 100-91 lead with 4:39 to go.

"It's one of those games where you look at each other as a coaching staff and say, 'Go figure,"' Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "That your bench would come out and have that productive of a fourth quarter - it's incredulous really."

Pardon Garnett if he didn't find it very funny.

He had 22 points, 11 rebounds and eight assists, but in the story of his 12-year career in Minnesota, Garnett couldn't do everything himself.

After shooting 62 percent and playing nearly flawless offensive basketball through three quarters, the Timberwolves shot just 2-of-19 in the lowest-scoring fourth quarter in franchise history.

"We went from diving on the floor and being really scrappy in this game to, I looked up and we were down," Garnett said. "It's very frustrating."

The former MVP openly pined for Iverson after he demanded a trade from Philadelphia. When the deal did not get done, Garnett said he was "a little bit" disappointed.

"That's pretty much how it goes around here," Garnett said. "I've learned not to put too much belief and hope in things until they're concrete and done. ... It would have been a very, very nice Christmas present."

Garnett has criticized management in the past for failing to surround him with enough talent to win, and on Wednesday night he turned a questioning eye toward Casey.

The coach took responsibility for the loss, for being unable to find a way to stop the collapse, and Garnett didn't exactly disagree.

"We can't keep depending on our coaches to make decisions," Garnett said. "We've got to use our IQs and our basketball knowledge to figure things out and maybe call timeouts and maybe go to a zone."

Without Iverson, Garnett said he was determined to be aggressive from the start and show more leadership, if that's possible. He hit his first three shots of the game and went toe-to-toe with Bryant for the first three quarters.

The game began as a duel between two of the best players in the NBA. Garnett and Bryant seemingly traded shots through the first three quarters, with Garnett scoring 21 to Bryant's 23.

The two All-Stars combined for only three points in the final period, however, while the Lakers' second unit overwhelmed Minnesota's bench players.

Ricky Davis scored 22 points and Randy Foye added 10 for the Wolves, who couldn't solve Radmanovic and Evans.

Radmanovic scored 11 of his 17 in the fourth and Evans had 10 of his 15 for the Lakers, who won for just the second time in five games without Lamar Odom.

Odom, their second-leading scorer and leading rebounder, went down with a sprained ligament in his right knee on Dec. 12. He is expected to miss at least a month.

Andrew Bynum added nine rebounds and seven points off the Lakers' bench, which outscored its Minnesota counterparts 51-19.

"They came in and gave us a huge, huge boost," Bryant said. "It was really a great effort."

[epicSocialism4tw]

Garnett wont be moved.

[Nuggets4]

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

Da Bulls

Makes too much sense on many levels to not happen. That said, I hope he stays in Minny. If the Wolves get a good enough deal, they'll be a scary team (something like Gordon, Deng and PJ Brown). With Garnett, they're cap strapped and stuck with guys like Mike James (who? And that joke never gets old), Ricky Davis (who's just behind Steven Jackson in the craziness ratings) and Mark Madsen tied in for a while, they're stuck in purgatory.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by Nuggets4

Makes too much sense on many levels to not happen. That said, I hope he stays in Minny. If the Wolves get a good enough deal, they'll be a scary team (something like Gordon, Deng and PJ Brown). With Garnett, they're cap strapped and stuck with guys like Mike James (who? And that joke never gets old), Ricky Davis (who's just behind Steven Jackson in the craziness ratings) and Mark Madsen tied in for a while, they're stuck in purgatory.

The Bulls do not have a chance in hell if Boston wanted him. The Celtics have the ending contracts and better 'potential' players than the Bulls. Ben Gordon and Luel Deng are alright, but they are second scoring option type of players. The Celtics can offer to legit, first option, franchise type guys in Gerald Green and Al Jefferson. Plus, if you consider that Jefferson is 6'10" post player, it makes Boston deal even more enticing.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

The Bulls do not have a chance in hell if Boston wanted him. The Celtics have the ending contracts and better 'potential' players than the Bulls. Ben Gordon and Luel Deng are alright, but they are second scoring option type of players. The Celtics can offer to legit, first option, franchise type guys in Gerald Green and Al Jefferson. Plus, if you consider that Jefferson is 6'10" post player, it makes Boston deal even more enticing.

Deng is a better player than either of those guys.

So are Nocioni and Kirk Hinrich.

Da Bulls have the best young talent in the NBA.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Deng is a better player than either of those guys.

So are Nocioni and Kirk Hinrich.

Da Bulls have the best young talent in the NBA.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Try to find a NBA GM that would take Deng and Gordon over Green and Jefferson. Al Jefferson is averaging 20 pts, 11 rebounds, and 2 blocks per game since he finally got to start. And the kid is only three years removed from high school. You are not going to find many 6'10" big men with his potential and ability in the NBA.

Gerald Green (second year out of high school) is third in the NBA in 3 pt % and might be the best dunker in the league at 6'8" tall. Not that dunking predicts success, but it does show his athletic ability and the fact that he has a great jumper means that has the tools to be a great one.

I would take those two guys over that midget Gordon and Deng (who is good) any day of the week.

You are confusing experience for talent. If Green went to college for three years, and had three years of NBA experience under his belt like Gordon has, I would sure hope he would average more than 16 pts (BG).

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Try to find a NBA GM that would take Deng and Gordon over Green and Jefferson. Al Jefferson is averaging 20 pts, 11 rebounds, and 2 blocks per game since he finally got to start. And the kid is only three years removedfrom high school. You are not going to find many 6'10" big men with his potential and ability in the NBA.
Gerald Green (second year out of high school) is third in the NBA in 3 pt % and might be the best dunker in the league at 6'8" tall. Not that dunking predicts success, but it does show his athletic ability and the fact that he has a great jumper means that has the tools to be a great one.
I would take those two guys over that midget Gordon and Deng (who is good) any day of the week.
You are confusing experience for talent. If Green went to college for three years, and had three years of NBA experience under his belt like Gordon has, I would sure hope he would average more than 16 pts (BG).

Chicago's youths are winners. Nocioni is probably the best of the bunch, Hinrich is an excellent young guard with potential, and Deng is a dynamic multifacited player with a serious competitive streak.

There is a difference between putting up numbers on a bad team and fitting into a system with the goal being playoff success. That's the difference between your Celtic youths and Chicago's proven youths. If you are interested in winning, you like Chicago's players. If you like the hopeful nature of having prospects with upside, you probably still like Chicago's players because they have shown more realization of that potential.

Gerald Green and Al Jefferson are nice young players, but one would be a fool to trade talent like Chicago has in it's arsenal for either of them. Chicago is on the verge of being a champion because of those players. It would be quite stupid to trade any of them for one of the Celtic kids. Paul Pierce is probably the only player that they would want from Boston, and Ben Gordon is probably the only young player that they would part with to get him.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Chicago's youths are winners. Nocioni is probably the best of the bunch, Hinrich is an excellent young guard with potential, and Deng is a dynamic multifacited player with a serious competitive streak.

There is a difference between putting up numbers on a bad team and fitting into a system with the goal being playoff success. That's the difference between your Celtic youths and Chicago's proven youths. If you are interested in winning, you like Chicago's players. If you like the hopeful nature of having prospects with upside, you probably still like Chicago's players because they have shown more realization of that potential.

Gerald Green and Al Jefferson are nice young players, but one would be a fool to trade talent like Chicago has in it's arsenal for either of them. Chicago is on the verge of being a champion because of those players. It would be quite stupid to trade any of them for one of the Celtic kids. Paul Pierce is probably the only player that they would want from Boston, and Ben Gordon is probably the only young player that they would part with to get him.

Chicago is nowhere near being a champion with those guys. Are they a solid team? Yes.

Go read a Chicago Bull fans board, the first thing they gripe about is not having a 'go-to scorer'; a player than can take over games and create his own shot. Deng and Gordon do not fit that mold. They are great 2nd to 3rd options to have on a team. And Nocioni? That guy is like 28 years old, so he is not 'youth.'

Like I said earlier, you are confusing experience for talent. Gordon and Deng are both, fine young players. Of this there is no doubt. But their upside is incredibly limited -- especially for Gordon. 6'2" shooting guards are not high in demand in this league. On the other hand, a 21 year old 6'10" C/PF like Jefferson is what everybody wants. Those types of guys are hard to come by. Therefore, their value is higher than a power three like Deng who cannot create off the dribble or a small two guard like Gordon.

Right now, every single Chicago fan would trade Deng for Jefferson without batting an eye lash; especially since Jefferson blew up this past month. They are savvy enough to understand the difference between Deng and Jefferson. You can replace a Deng easily. Finding a guy like Jefferson is extremely tough.

I don't think you would find a Chicago Bulls fan in the world that wouldn't trade Gordon and Deng for Green and Jefferson.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Right now, every single Chicago fan would trade Deng for Jefferson without batting an eye lash; especially since Jefferson blew up this past month. They are savvy enough to understand the difference between Deng and Jefferson. You can replace a Deng easily. Finding a guy like Jefferson is extremely tough.

I don't think you would find a Chicago Bulls fan in the world that wouldn't trade Gordon and Deng for Green and Jefferson.

Only a Celtic homer would make that deal. Al Jefferson is nothing.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Only a Celtic homer would make that deal. Al Jefferson is nothing.

See, I tried to give you another chance and have a civil conversation with you, but you act like a six year old child. It's pathetic. Al Jefferson is nothing? When Dirk was Al's age, he was averaging 8 pts and 3 rebounds a game in the NBA. I guess Dirk was nothing, huh?

You are the same, dude. I remember why I hate having conversations with you. You act like a b****. A real freaking b****. Stupid comments. Same stupid comments you made in the Dirk for MVP thread. You can't change.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

See, I tried to give you another chance and have a civil conversation with you, but you act like a six year old child. It's pathetic. Al Jefferson is nothing? When Dirk was Al's age, he was averaging 8 pts and 3 rebounds a game in the NBA. I guess Dirk was nothing, huh?

You are the same, dude. I remember why I hate having conversations with you. You act like a b****. A real freaking b****. Stupid comments. Same stupid comments you made in the Dirk for MVP thread. You can't change.

Im just not gonna buy the hype you are dispersing. On the NBA player value landscape, both Gerald Green and Al Jefferson are specks. I know it's hard to believe, but it's the truth.

I understand that bigs generate a certain value if they can put both shoes on the right foot and walk, but at the same time, no one is going to trade an excellent rotation player like Nocioni or Hinrich for one of those guys. Heck, Dampier got a 10 mil/year deal. That doesnt mean that he would be worth trading Hinrich for.

It's great that you know alot about your own guys, but lets put things in proper perspective.

[Nuggets4]

Gonzo, I totally agree that Green and Jefferson have the potential to be better than Deng and Gordon, I'm just not sure they'll reach that potential. I love Jefferson, but he's still wildly inconsistent. The question is if Minnesota would be willing to roll the dice on the potential for greatness or for the safe thing. Knowing Kevin McHale, he'd probably just trade Garnett for expiring contracts.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by Nuggets4

Gonzo, I totally agree that Green and Jefferson have the potential to be better than Deng and Gordon, I'm just not sure they'll reach that potential. I love Jefferson, but he's still wildly inconsistent. The question is if Minnesota would be willing to roll the dice on the potential for greatness or for the safe thing. Knowing Kevin McHale, he'd probably just trade Garnett for expiring contracts.

If Mchale trades Garnett for expiring contracts, he is a bigger idiot than Billy King. That team is cap strapped because of all his moronic signings: Marko Jaric, Troy Hudson, Trenton Hassell, and trading for Mark Blount. All those guys are performing under what their contract is worth. And they all have years left on their deal. Minny will not be under the cap before 2010 will all that crap they on the roster.

If Mchale is smart, he starts to shop KG right now; before KG demands a trade. I would look for young talent (preferably a big man), a couple of draft picks (since he has trade away all of his) and an expiring contract to make the deal work because KG earns 22 mill.

The deal with Chicago doesn't make sense for Chicago, IMO. Let's say they do Gordon, Thomas, Deng and PJ Brown for Garnett. Who do they have left? Hinrich, Shefolosha, Wallace, KG, Nocioni, Duhon and Malik Allen. That lineup is a slight upgrade over what KG had in Minny sans Wallace. To me, the Chicago deal is unlikely.

Boston on the other hand, is loaded with youth and the prized expiring contract of Theo Ratliff. We could send across Al Jefferson (the crucial big), Gerald Green (the tantalizing potential guy), their pick of a PG (Telfair, Rondo or West) and couple of draft picks. Then KG gets to lineup with a true superstar in Pierce, Kendrick Perkins, Wally Z, and whatever PGs they do not choose. That makes sense.

If Minny were to take Chicago's deal, there is not much upside to it. Luol Deng is great, but he is going to be a 18-20 pt guy his whole career until he learns how to shoot from the outside. Tyrus Thomas is an undersized big (measured out to be 6'7" without shoes at the predraft camp) and Gordon is an undersized two guard. Not the the best deal in the world, IMO. Now, if they throw in their 2007 first round pick (New Yorks) then we will not be having this conversation. KG is theirs. But then again, it doesn't make much sense for Chitown to do it because their team is depleted with no cap room.

[Nuggets4]

You know what your problem is Gonzo? You keep assuming NBA GM's are smart. HUGE mistake.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by Nuggets4

You know what your problem is Gonzo? You keep assuming NBA GM's are smart. HUGE mistake.

Tell me about it. **** BILLY KING!! That ****ing moron.

What deal would you have taken, Nuggs?

Theo Ratliff (expiring contract), your pick of Telfair, West or Rondo, Gerald Green and Boston's 2007 first round pick/2009 first round pick

OR

Andre Miller and two late 2007 first round picks

If you were Philly's GM, what deal would you take? All Nuggs homerism aside.

[Nuggets4]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Tell me about it. **** BILLY KING!! That ****ing moron.

What deal would you have taken, Nuggs?

Theo Ratliff (expiring contract), your pick of Telfair, West or Rondo, Gerald Green and Boston's 2007 first round pick/2009 first round pick

OR

Andre Miller and two late 2007 first round picks

If you were Philly's GM, what deal would you take? All Nuggs homerism aside.

I'm a big Rondo fan, so the Celtics deal if he's a part. I'm not as convinced that Gerald Green is for real as you are, so if it's Telfair or West, I take the Nugs deal. That's not being a Nugs homer. That IS possibly being a Dre homer though.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Im just not gonna buy the hype you are dispersing. On the NBA player value landscape, both Gerald Green and Al Jefferson are specks. I know it's hard to believe, but it's the truth.

I understand that bigs generate a certain value if they can put both shoes on the right foot and walk, but at the same time, no one is going to trade an excellent rotation player like Nocioni or Hinrich for one of those guys. Heck, Dampier got a 10 mil/year deal. That doesnt mean that he would be worth trading Hinrich for.

It's great that you know alot about your own guys, but lets put things in proper perspective.

Al Jefferson is a speck? WTF!

Al Jefferson, after coming off emergency appendectomy surgery, was inserted into the starting lineup on December 9th. Here are his games

12.9 29 pts, 14 rebounds, 1 blk
12.11 14 pts, 12 rebounds, 4 blks
12.13 6 pts, 13 rebounds, 3 blks
12.15 28 pts, 10 rebounds, 0 blks
12.16 22 pts, 10 rebounds, 1 blk
12.20 13 pts, 11 rebounds, 4 blks
12.22 20 pts, 14 rebounds, 2 blks

You call that a speck? A 6'10" big man (who actually has a back to the basket game) three years removed from high school putting up those kind of numbers is a speck? A speck?

This guy is not some one shot wonder. Before he was inserted into the starting lineup, the Celtics were 5-13. Since then, 5-2. He is a impact player in the every sense of the world.

Guys like Jefferson are 30 times harder to find than a undersized two guard like Gordon and wing player like Deng. Wing and twos are dime a dozen player therefore their value is nowhere near a legit big man like Jefferson who is putting up those kind of numbers at age 21. Its not even close. There is no debate here.

Man, you have a unique ability to lull people into arguments with your stupidity. Just plain stupidity.

[usedupbraids]

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Al Jefferson is a speck? WTF!
Al Jefferson, after coming off emergency appendectomy surgery, was inserted into the starting lineup on December 9th. Here are his games
12.9 29 pts, 14 rebounds, 1 blk
12.11 14 pts, 12 rebounds, 4 blks
12.13 6 pts, 13 rebounds, 3 blks
12.15 28 pts, 10 rebounds, 0 blks
12.16 22 pts, 10 rebounds, 1 blk
12.20 13 pts, 11 rebounds, 4 blks
12.22 20 pts, 14 rebounds, 2 blks
You call that a speck? A 6'10" big man (who actually has a back to the basket game) three years removed from high school putting up those kind of numbers is a speck? A speck?
This guy is not some one shot wonder. Before he was inserted into the starting lineup, the Celtics were 5-13. Since then, 5-2. He is a impact player in the every sense of the world.
Guys like Jefferson are 30 times harder to find than a undersized two guard like Gordon and wing player like Deng. Wing and twos are dime a dozen player therefore their value is nowhere near a legit big man like Jefferson who is putting up those kind of numbers at age 21. Its not even close. There is no debate here.
Man, you have a unique ability to lull people into arguments with your stupidity. Just plain stupidity.

Get over it, bro. You have a tendancy to place current value on the potential of Celtic players. It just isnt that way in the real world. Jefferson is not an impact player. If he was, the Celtics would have been decent at some point over his tenure there and they simply havent been.

Having an impact doesnt mean putting up numbers on a poor team, it means making plays that take your franchise to: a winning record, a record well above .500, the playoffs, playoff wins, conference titles, NBA titles. Let me know when Jefferson starts the Celtics along that path and we'll talk about impact player status.

He may very well result in an all-star or a true franchise player, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it. If we're trading potential for superstars, let's trade Devin Harris for Gilbert Arenas. I'm hopping on that train right now! Im sure the Wizards would take Austin Croshere and Devin for Arenas.