Despite the botched XP.. - The Orange Mane

16-JakE-16 · 12-26-2006, 10:50 AM

Year after year it's the same old story. Why does this defense allow everyone to drive 60+ yards on them at the end of the game? I don't understand it. It used to be frustrating but now I simply expect it. Is it because Coyer goes mass prevent, playing the corners 30 yards off the line? Maybe. All I know is that this is responsible for more than 50% of our losses. This year alone 3 of 6 losses have come at the end of the game.

-Slap- · 12-26-2006, 10:54 AM

I think its partially because of personnel and coaching, but mainly because our opponents are trying to win, too.

Archie · 12-26-2006, 10:57 AM

Totally agree... I have become 100% frustrated with our D and our inability to make a key stop. Go back to the Pittsburgh game last year where we had them 3rd and long nearly the entire game only to see them pick up 2 yards more then they needed every single time. Other then then the enigma of the first five games this year our D has been very porous - especially late in games when we need to be putting people away...

Take the 2nd SD game. We score a bunch of points in the 3rd quarter and look to be turning the tables on SD from the game here. Instead, their D steps up and shuts us down. Good night gracie.

I am dying to see our D do that....

Garcia Bronco · 12-26-2006, 11:10 AM

It's the finesse style of defense we play pure and simple.

elsid13 · 12-26-2006, 11:14 AM

Because the coaching staff is playing not to lose, insteading playing to win.

Turf Shaman · 12-26-2006, 11:17 AM

I agree it's personnel and coaching. The root is the personnel on the D-line. But Coyer has been coaching the D like they don't have a glaring weakness on the D-Line. I don't really get why he has been relying more on the D-line this season than last, when the d-line has been considerably weaker this season (No Pryce or Brown).

broncofan2438 · 12-26-2006, 11:25 AM

Should we be blitzing more?

want2bAbronco2 · 12-26-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncofan2438

Should we be blitzing more?

YES!!

Why do they drive late on us? because we need a pass rushing everydown DE and a huge run stopping DT our D could be one of the best.

Barry Ramey · 12-26-2006, 12:05 PM

It's rather simply why the defense can't make big stops. They generate very little pass rush and play these soft zones 95% of the time to play it safe, that the only way a team doesn't move the ball down the field against them is if they commit penalties, drop passes, someone runs a wrong route, someone fumbles, or the QB simply makes poor throws. Yes, can work against poor offenses who spend as much time shooting themselves in the foot as anything else, but the good offenses just have an easy time. Let's face it, forget the botched snap and hold on the extra point, without the turnovers by Cincy, the Broncos likely don't win that game.

minibronco · 12-26-2006, 12:25 PM

There are a couple of key factors as to your inquiry:

1) Mentality. The Broncos defense steps on the field near the end of the game not with a 3-and-out mentality (like they have at the beginning), but a "we can't let them pass XXXX-yard line" mentality. This way, they don't play with a sense of urgency and are not as aware.

b. likewise, the mentality of the other team changes. They know it is a must-score possession (unlike ones before), and are pressured into making deep throws and right play calls.

2) Prevent defense. You know it doesn't work, I know it doesn't work, Borat knows it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. When you have your cornerbacks, who have been doing excellent the entire game, playing 20-30 yards off the wide receivers, you are giving a lot of space for the offense to march down the field with slants, hooks, and eventually long throws. That's what your safeties are for. Allow your opposing offense to use their running game; if you do it correctly, it runs time off the clock and doesn't get them anywhere.

Taco John · 12-26-2006, 12:30 PM

We're not using a prevent defense. There is a pretty huge difference between the prevent dime and a cover 2 zone. I wish people would quit saying we use a prevent. They might as well put a sticker on their chest that says "Hi, I'm just saying stuff."

sirhcyennek81 · 12-26-2006, 12:40 PM

I'm sorry...I thought Denver won on sunday...

16-JakE-16 · 12-26-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

We're not using a prevent defense. There is a pretty huge difference between the prevent dime and a cover 2 zone. I wish people would quit saying we use a prevent. They might as well put a sticker on their chest that says "Hi, I'm just saying stuff."

Call it a form of hyperbole. The soft zones Coyer employs are so useless to anything under 30 yards it might as well be called a prevent defense.

maven · 12-26-2006, 01:36 PM

How about drafting DL in next year's draft? This would certainly help late game meltdowns.

24champ · 12-26-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven

How about drafting DL in next year's draft? .

What is Demarcus Tyler? 2007 Broncos draft pick selections for 200 Alex...

bpc · 12-26-2006, 02:43 PM

I'm not going to beat this dead but a lot of people wanted to believe that we had an elite defense in the beginning of the year. We have some elite players but the defense is not. We need a few more impact players and we will be a very good defense. Right now we come up big in some situations but we are definitely not clutch. We shall see though. A few more parts and we could get into the top 5 groups in the league.

We need to get back to the basics and stop the run better. We have been owned by four different backs this year and we have a good challenge of stopping Frank Gore this weekend. Stop the run first, work on the pass second.

Sign Justin Smith...

Draft some DT's to help out Gerard Warren.

We are only going to get better.

watermock · 12-26-2006, 02:56 PM

We spent years trying to get the D fixed with what could be called poor results. It was time to address the offense.

TJ can say that we aren't playing the prevent...Bah! We are as soft as a wet cheese puff Sunday on the last drive. We might of been rushing 4, but they simply took what we gave them and moved effortlessly down the field. You get one sack, (which might even cause a fumble) and it was game over.

Here's what drove me crazy. Coyer played a D that would of been fine with a 10 point lead. We didn't. We would of been better off just to lay down to leave some time on the clock! Sunday wasn't the first time this has happened.

sirhcyennek81 · 12-26-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock

We spent years trying to get the D fixed with what could be called poor results. It was time to address the offense.

TJ can say that we aren't playing the prevent...Bah! We are as soft as a wet cheese puff Sunday on the last drive. We might of been rushing 4, but they simply took what we gave them and moved effortlessly down the field. You get one sack, (which might even cause a fumble) and it was game over.

Here's what drove me crazy. Coyer played a D that would of been fine with a 10 point lead. We didn't. We would of been better off just to lay down to leave some time on the clock! Sunday wasn't the first time this has happened.

Not every team has the passing game of Indi, Cinci, Seattle and SD. Our back 7 is possibly the best in the NFL, our front four needs work. Our defense's main inssue is getting to the QB or disrupting the pocket, when they do that, we have an elite defense, but its spotty, and doesnt happen consistently. That is our problem, not the coverage or the coverage scheme.

broncosteven · 12-26-2006, 03:20 PM

I waffled on who to blame for the performance of the D this year.

I do not like to see lots of yards given up but I do not like to see TD's given up either. Early in the year they gave up lots of yards but little to no TD's!

Then as injuries mounted & DWill's play continually digressed I came to see what Coyer was doing with what he had so I began to back off him.

I still think Coyer is human & makes mistakes just like the rest of us but I am hoping that they will address the personnel needs in the off-season to get the D over the hump.

Now that we have Cutler performing at a higher level than Jake & More CONSISTENTLY that should also help the D in the long run.

The No TD streak at the start of this season is something that every Bronco fan should be proud of & bring up every season just like the 72 dolphins do re: their unbeaten streak. That was an impressive feat, 2nd to only the 2 SB wins.

Jetmeck · 12-26-2006, 03:32 PM

Darn you to heck for pointing out an obvious flaw. Nice to see some discussion of this instead of a pack of wolves jumping the guy saying "we won so shut up".

Northman · 12-26-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Ramey

It's rather simply why the defense can't make big stops. They generate very little pass rush and play these soft zones 95% of the time to play it safe, that the only way a team doesn't move the ball down the field against them is if they commit penalties, drop passes, someone runs a wrong route, someone fumbles, or the QB simply makes poor throws. Yes, can work against poor offenses who spend as much time shooting themselves in the foot as anything else, but the good offenses just have an easy time. Let's face it, forget the botched snap and hold on the extra point, without the turnovers by Cincy, the Broncos likely don't win that game.

Ah, another one. So the Denver defense doesnt get credit for the forcing the TO's eh?

Northman · 12-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

Darn you to heck for pointing out an obvious flaw. Nice to see some discussion of this instead of a pack of wolves jumping the guy saying "we won so shut up".

Goddamn dude, your still whining about that?

Jetmeck · 12-26-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

Goddamn dude, your still whining about that?

That how you get 9k posts around here ? If you don't agree with someone you don't HAVE to post.

Dam straight, discuss it or ignore it. EVERY fellow Bronco fans has a right to his or her opinion. This rule does not apply to other team's fans (trolls) though....lol

Jetmeck · 12-26-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

Ah, another one. So the Denver defense doesnt get credit for the forcing the TO's eh?

Just like they get credit for all the late game melt downs ?

OrangeShadow · 12-26-2006, 03:44 PM

Vote tank in 07!

12-26-2006, 10:50 AM	#1
16-JakE-16 It's over, fat man. Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410	Despite the botched XP.. Year after year it's the same old story. Why does this defense allow everyone to drive 60+ yards on them at the end of the game? I don't understand it. It used to be frustrating but now I simply expect it. Is it because Coyer goes mass prevent, playing the corners 30 yards off the line? Maybe. All I know is that this is responsible for more than 50% of our losses. This year alone 3 of 6 losses have come at the end of the game.

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12-26-2006, 10:54 AM	#2
-Slap- Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 31,895	I think its partially because of personnel and coaching, but mainly because our opponents are trying to win, too.

12-26-2006, 10:57 AM	#3
Archie R Gang Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,151 Adopt-a-Bronco: Keith Bishop	Totally agree... I have become 100% frustrated with our D and our inability to make a key stop. Go back to the Pittsburgh game last year where we had them 3rd and long nearly the entire game only to see them pick up 2 yards more then they needed every single time. Other then then the enigma of the first five games this year our D has been very porous - especially late in games when we need to be putting people away... Take the 2nd SD game. We score a bunch of points in the 3rd quarter and look to be turning the tables on SD from the game here. Instead, their D steps up and shuts us down. Good night gracie. I am dying to see our D do that....

12-26-2006, 11:10 AM	#4
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 45,987 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	It's the finesse style of defense we play pure and simple.

12-26-2006, 11:14 AM	#5
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,079	Because the coaching staff is playing not to lose, insteading playing to win.

12-26-2006, 11:17 AM	#6
Turf Shaman Seasoned Veteran Use in moderation. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 388 Adopt-a-Bronco: Samuel Adams	I agree it's personnel and coaching. The root is the personnel on the D-line. But Coyer has been coaching the D like they don't have a glaring weakness on the D-Line. I don't really get why he has been relying more on the D-line this season than last, when the d-line has been considerably weaker this season (No Pryce or Brown).

12-26-2006, 11:25 AM	#7
broncofan2438 Faneco this... LETS TAKE BACK THE AFC WEST Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,302 Adopt-a-Bronco: ERIC DECKER	Should we be blitzing more?

12-26-2006, 12:05 PM	#9
Barry Ramey Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,700	It's rather simply why the defense can't make big stops. They generate very little pass rush and play these soft zones 95% of the time to play it safe, that the only way a team doesn't move the ball down the field against them is if they commit penalties, drop passes, someone runs a wrong route, someone fumbles, or the QB simply makes poor throws. Yes, can work against poor offenses who spend as much time shooting themselves in the foot as anything else, but the good offenses just have an easy time. Let's face it, forget the botched snap and hold on the extra point, without the turnovers by Cincy, the Broncos likely don't win that game.

12-26-2006, 12:25 PM	#10
minibronco KFFL Writer/Fantasy Scout Defense: 11 Strong Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The OC Posts: 2,474	There are a couple of key factors as to your inquiry: 1) Mentality. The Broncos defense steps on the field near the end of the game not with a 3-and-out mentality (like they have at the beginning), but a "we can't let them pass XXXX-yard line" mentality. This way, they don't play with a sense of urgency and are not as aware. b. likewise, the mentality of the other team changes. They know it is a must-score possession (unlike ones before), and are pressured into making deep throws and right play calls. 2) Prevent defense. You know it doesn't work, I know it doesn't work, Borat knows it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. When you have your cornerbacks, who have been doing excellent the entire game, playing 20-30 yards off the wide receivers, you are giving a lot of space for the offense to march down the field with slants, hooks, and eventually long throws. That's what your safeties are for. Allow your opposing offense to use their running game; if you do it correctly, it runs time off the clock and doesn't get them anywhere.

12-26-2006, 12:30 PM	#11
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,697 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	We're not using a prevent defense. There is a pretty huge difference between the prevent dime and a cover 2 zone. I wish people would quit saying we use a prevent. They might as well put a sticker on their chest that says "Hi, I'm just saying stuff."

12-26-2006, 12:40 PM	#12
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,668 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	I'm sorry...I thought Denver won on sunday...

12-26-2006, 01:36 PM	#14
maven ★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆ Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,736	How about drafting DL in next year's draft? This would certainly help late game meltdowns.

12-26-2006, 02:43 PM	#16
bpc "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 1 sword keeps another in the sheath Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 12,566 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I'm not going to beat this dead but a lot of people wanted to believe that we had an elite defense in the beginning of the year. We have some elite players but the defense is not. We need a few more impact players and we will be a very good defense. Right now we come up big in some situations but we are definitely not clutch. We shall see though. A few more parts and we could get into the top 5 groups in the league. We need to get back to the basics and stop the run better. We have been owned by four different backs this year and we have a good challenge of stopping Frank Gore this weekend. Stop the run first, work on the pass second. Sign Justin Smith... Draft some DT's to help out Gerard Warren. We are only going to get better.

12-26-2006, 02:56 PM	#17
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	We spent years trying to get the D fixed with what could be called poor results. It was time to address the offense. TJ can say that we aren't playing the prevent...Bah! We are as soft as a wet cheese puff Sunday on the last drive. We might of been rushing 4, but they simply took what we gave them and moved effortlessly down the field. You get one sack, (which might even cause a fumble) and it was game over. Here's what drove me crazy. Coyer played a D that would of been fine with a 10 point lead. We didn't. We would of been better off just to lay down to leave some time on the clock! Sunday wasn't the first time this has happened.

12-26-2006, 03:20 PM	#19
broncosteven The Kranz Dictum MWA: Flight Director Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 29,003 Adopt-a-Bronco: MONEYBALL #38	I waffled on who to blame for the performance of the D this year. I do not like to see lots of yards given up but I do not like to see TD's given up either. Early in the year they gave up lots of yards but little to no TD's! Then as injuries mounted & DWill's play continually digressed I came to see what Coyer was doing with what he had so I began to back off him. I still think Coyer is human & makes mistakes just like the rest of us but I am hoping that they will address the personnel needs in the off-season to get the D over the hump. Now that we have Cutler performing at a higher level than Jake & More CONSISTENTLY that should also help the D in the long run. The No TD streak at the start of this season is something that every Bronco fan should be proud of & bring up every season just like the 72 dolphins do re: their unbeaten streak. That was an impressive feat, 2nd to only the 2 SB wins.

12-26-2006, 03:32 PM	#20
Jetmeck Not a Chief's board Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,376	Darn you to heck for pointing out an obvious flaw. Nice to see some discussion of this instead of a pack of wolves jumping the guy saying "we won so shut up".

12-26-2006, 03:44 PM	#25
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	Vote tank in 07!