Absolutely NO excuse...

[Dudeskey]

None whatsoeer...

Family members grieve after Sean Bell, 23, inset, was killed by police last Saturday outside a Jamaica club. Bell, who was to have been married later in the day, died amid a barrage of 50 police bullets that also injured two friends.

50 Shots, Few Answers After Police Kill Man
Four days after police killed an unarmed man and injured two others outside a Jamaica strip club, it remained unclear if or when criminal charges would be filed against the shooters.
Queens District Attorney Richard Brown on Wednesday refused to set a timeline for concluding his investigation, which could lead to a grand jury making formal charges against the five officers who fatally wounded Sean Bell, 23, and seriously injured his two friends, Joseph Guzman, 31, and Trent Benefield, 23.


The incident occurred just after 4 a.m. on Saturday, when the three men were leaving Kalua Cabaret, located on 94th Avenue. According to police accounts, Bell—who was attending his bachelor party and was to be married later that day—crashed his Nissan Altima into a black police minivan after striking an undercover police officer. Bell’s car, which also carried Guzman and Benefield, then backed up, hit a store’s security gate and smashed into the minivan again.
At that point, an undercover officer, who has not been identified, fired the first of 11 shots at the Altima. Two other officers in the minivan, who were on back up duty in a drug and prostitution investigation into Kalua Cabaret, got out of their vehicle and opened fire on the Altima.
One officer, 12 year veteran Michael Oliver, fired 31 shots, stopping to reload his weapon. The other officer fired three shots.
Two additional officers in a second back up car, which was behind the Altima, fired five rounds, for a total of 50 shots. According to published reports, the unit’s commanding officer, Lt. Jerry Napoli, who was driving the second backup car, ducked under the dashboard when the shooting began and did not fire his gun, according to published reports. A seventh officer, who was also undercover in the bar, was a block away when the shooting occurred and did not fire her gun.
Just before the incident, Bell and several men in his bachelor party got into an altercation with other men outside the club. An undercover officer allegedly heard one of the men in Bell’s group say “Yo, go get my gun.”
No guns were recovered from the Altima. There are also conflicting reports as to whether the officer who initially opened fire identified himself as a police officer before approaching the Altima.
Bell died on Saturday morning from three bullet wounds in his neck, shoulder and right arm. Guzman and Benefield remain at Jamaica’s Mary Immaculate Hospital. Guzman is in critical condition with 17 wounds from 11 bullets, but is expected to survive. Benefield suffered three bullet wounds and is in stable condition. They were initially handcuffed to their hospital beds despite not being arrested, although they were later unrestrained.
The number of shots fired raised questions among residents, community leaders and elected officials, including Gov. George Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who characterized the incident as “unacceptable.”
“It’s hard for me to understand why 50 odd shots were taken. To me, that sounds like excessive force,” Bloomberg said after meeting with black clergy and elected officials at City Hall on Monday morning. The following day, the mayor visited the victims’ families and held private discussions with community leaders at Thomasina’s Catering in St. Albans.
District Attorney Brown also met with a cadre of advocates and officials on Monday, including the Rev. Al Sharpton, state Sen. Malcolm Smith and Councilman Leroy Comrie. The families of the victims including Bell’s fiancee Nicole Paultre also attended the meeting with Brown. Afterward, Smith reiterated his call for a “fair and impartial investigation,” adding that “this is not a process that is going to happen overnight.”
A spokesman for Brown said Wednesday that the district attorney had not set an “artificial deadline” to complete his investigation. “He is working as expeditiously as possible, but with caution,” said Kevin Ryan, noting that evidence was still being gathered and witnesses continued to be interviewed.
Sharpton, Smith and other leaders met with Guzman and Benefield on Sunday morning at Mary Immaculate Hospital before convening a rally outside that was attended by hundreds of people from across the city. Then on Wednesday morning, many of the same leaders returned to the scene of the shooting, with family members of the dead man and his injured friends. “We believe a crime was committed against Sean. We believe a crime was committed against another two,” Sharpton said Wednesday morning.
The shooting outraged many residents in a neighborhood where tensions with police are palpable. At Saturday’s rally, the crowd’s tone wavered between confusion and anger. “As a black young man this makes me feel like a walking target,” Jamaica resident Alexander Jefferson said.
Others in the community urged calm as they expressed fear about retaliation against the police. “You’re not bringing this boy back by killing other people,” said Sugar Wright, the director of a Jamaica anti violence group known as Keep Our Streets Safe. Authorities in Essex County, N.J., received warnings of possible gang retaliations against police in response to Bell’s death.
While the community has searched for answers in the controversial and complicated case, the five officers who fired their guns have remained relatively quiet as several of their actions have come under scrutiny. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Monday that the undercover officers’ decision to follow Bell and his companions and attempt to confront them was “unusual.” Undercover police officers rarely make arrests, instead calling in backup units to respond.
Kelly also said that shooting at a moving vehicle—even when the vehicle is being used as a weapon—is against department policy. Police are instructed to fire at most three times before reassessing the situation.
All five officers have been placed on paid administrative leave and have voluntarily given up their guns. Their attorneys said their clients will waive immunity and appear before the grand jury, if one is empaneled.
While the officers themselves have made no public comments, Philip Karasyk, the attorney for the officer who fired the first shot, told the Daily News his client only fired after being struck by the vehicle and clearly identifying himself as a police officer. Karasyk said his client saw Guzman reach for his waistband, causing him to believe the unarmed man had a gun.
While Brown continues his investigation, the families of the victims are preparing for Bell’s funeral on Friday. The former standout baseball player at John Adams High School in Ozone Park lived with Paultre in Far Rockaway. The couple had two daughters, Jada, 3, and Jordyn, 5 months. They were to be married at 5 p.m. last Saturday afternoon with a reception to follow at La Bella Vita in Ozone Park.
Bell’s wake will be held at 4 p.m. on Friday at Church of Christ, at 167 04 108th Ave. in Jamaica, with a funeral to follow at 7 p.m. A fund has been set up at the church to assist the family. Contributions can be mailed to the church c/o the Sean Bell Benefit Fund, 167 04 108th Ave., Jamaica, NY 11433.
As he grieved on Tuesday, William Bell, the father of the slain man, urged the community to mourn his son, instead of focusing on the racial dynamics of the case. “I want to make sure that’s clear. Color has nothing to do with it. It’s the human being that got lost, not the color of his skin,” he said.

If nobody gets locked up for this it a riot wouldn't surprise me one bit...

[Bronx33]

I see a HUGE settlement....

[Northman]

well, just so im clear the victim was smashing his car into the van repeatedly correct? He was using his car as a weapon correct?

[GonzoLays]

Hmmm, I wonder what Dman would say??


they should not have hit a police car. a officer of the peace has to protect himself. This is a tragedy, but the guy should have known better...dman

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Hmmm, I wonder what Dman would say??


they should not have hit a police car. a officer of the peace has to protect himself. This is a tragedy, but the guy should have known better...dman

Dman wouldn't say anything, until all the facts were in. On that note, stuff it Gonzo....and quit jumping to conclusions......they'll get their day in court I'm sure..dman

[gunns]

One officer, 12 year veteran Michael Oliver, fired 31 shots, stopping to reload his weapon.

Overkill?

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by gunns

Overkill?

When there was no return fire......................yes.

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

When there was no return fire......................yes.

If those are the facts, I would have to agree, but we'll see how it plays. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. At least when the fiction is generated by the press....dman

[loborugger]

According to published reports, the unit’s commanding officer, Lt. Jerry Napoli, who was driving the second backup car, ducked under the dashboard when the shooting began and did not fire his gun, according to published reports

This will not play well. He ducked while his troops duked it out. Hell, he outta be promoted to the White House.

Seriously, if he isnt quite literally laughed off the job he will probably be either demoted or fired - that is of course if its true.

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by loborugger

According to published reports, the unit’s commanding officer, Lt. Jerry Napoli, who was driving the second backup car, ducked under the dashboard when the shooting began and did not fire his gun, according to published reports

This will not play well. He ducked while his troops duked it out. Hell, he outta be promoted to the White House.

Seriously, if he isnt quite literally laughed off the job he will probably be either demoted or fired - that is of course if its true.

Yep, this is bad. A good leader, doesn't hide when the bullets start flying. Thats literally, and a comparison of sorts to the business/management world of today. Then again, I personally never want to see anyone shot, good or bad guys, makes a real mess, and if mistaken, it is very difficult sometimes to take it back....dman

[gunns]

According to published reports, the unit’s commanding officer, Lt. Jerry Napoli, who was driving the second backup car, ducked under the dashboard when the shooting began and did not fire his gun, according to published reports

Something suggests he knew how out of control they were.

[-Slap-]

Two things. First, in the dark, once shooting starts, its almost impossible to know if all the shots are coming from your side or if there is return fire.

Second, for all we know, the CO who's being labeled a coward right now might have been trying to get his subordinates to cease fire and that's why he didn't discharge his weapon. Would it have been better if the story read "57 Shots, Few Answers After Police Kill Man" instead?

[Spider]

50 bullets 1 death 2 injured , somebody needs to get thier asses to a shooting range and requalify ............

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by loborugger

According to published reports, the unit’s commanding officer, Lt. Jerry Napoli, who was driving the second backup car, ducked under the dashboard when the shooting began and did not fire his gun, according to published reports

This will not play well. He ducked while his troops duked it out. Hell, he outta be promoted to the White House.
Seriously, if he isnt quite literally laughed off the job he will probably be either demoted or fired - that is of course if its true.

I like how these "experts" chime in on what people should or shouldn't be doing under fire.

[Dudeskey]

One officer, 12 year veteran Michael Oliver, fired 31 shots, stopping to reload his weapon.

Still looking for a link, but Oliver supposedly claims he doesn't remember dischaging his weapon.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by Anubis

well, just so im clear the victim was smashing his car into the van repeatedly correct? He was using his car as a weapon correct?

I would guess the driver was attempting to get away from strangers
with guns pointed at him. Wouldn't you? Keep in mind two of
the plainclothes cops were also black, and two were hispanics.
For all he knew they were gangbangers out to rob him.

[N.O.Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

I would guess the driver was attempting to get away from strangers
with guns pointed at him. Wouldn't you? Keep in mind two of
the plainclothes cops were also black, and two were hispanics.
For all he knew they were gangbangers out to rob him.

exactlly, which is why i have serious problems with regular clothed officers. Confusion like this probally brought, occurs countless times a year and the news stories are their to prove it. There are places and situations for regular clothed officers but it is something that really needs to evaluated nationwide to help prevent more incidences.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

exactlly, which is why i have serious problems with regular clothed officers. Confusion like this probally brought, occurs countless times a year and the news stories are their to prove it. There are places and situations for regular clothed officers but it is something that really needs to evaluated nationwide to help prevent more incidences.

The original reason for the plainclothes cop even being there was to
investigate drugs and prostitution at the strip club. From what I have
read, none of them had even fired their guns in the line of duty before.
This seems to indicate that they apparently weren't street cops,
and apparently there was no effort to bring in uniformed cops
to try to help deal with the situation. They just took it on their
own to try to deal with a group of what they thought were armed men.
and confronting a situation they had no experience with, they paniced.

[Stuck In Texas]

This definitely seems like overkill, but we should probably wait to reserve judgement until all of the facts are in.

On the bright side, maybe one of the cops will post something on this site and our mysterious "Thought Policeman" can let the NY papers know.

[loborugger]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I like how these "experts" chime in on what people should or shouldn't be doing under fire.

Whats your point, beersnitch? Or are you just going after me cuz you know I think you are lower than the crap I scrape off my shoe.

I know of a situation similar to this. Two Federal agents were on surveillance in a rather unsavory neighborhood in Denver. Some of the local talent spotted them and a shoot out ensued. One agent was driving and evading while shooting outta the window. Meanwhile his "partner" lied on the floorboard, refusing not only to draw her weapon but to reload his weapon. She was immediately transfered.

I figure this situation is pretty much the same - maybe worse as the LT was a supervisor instead of a peer. Again, thats if the situation played out as the Newspaper reports it.

Further, one of the very basic tenants of leadership is to lead by example, never expecting your subordinates to do things you wouldnt do.

So, what is your point? Or is it just a personal vendetta? "He doesnt like me, cuz he knows I am a rat fink bastard, therefore his opinion must be wrong."

You gonna try and gimme a virus now, maybe find out my IP? Send my boss an email just cuz I dont bow at the altar of your opinion?

[TheDave]

12 year veteran Michael Oliver, fired 31 shots, stopping to reload his weapon

This guy sounds like something out of a Police Academy movie

Officer #1 = 11 shots fired
Officer #2 = 3 Shots fired
Officer #3 & #4 = 5 Shots fired
Officer #5 = 31 shots W/ a reload

I suggest Officer #5 spend a little more time indoors with a pencil and a little less outside with a gun...JMO

[Northman]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

I would guess the driver was attempting to get away from strangers
with guns pointed at him. Wouldn't you? Keep in mind two of
the plainclothes cops were also black, and two were hispanics.
For all he knew they were gangbangers out to rob him.

But the article doesnt say the officers drew their guns first. It's claiming that the guy in the altima slammed into the van, backed up and hit it again.

According to police accounts, Bell—who was attending his bachelor party and was to be married later that day—crashed his Nissan Altima into a black police minivan after striking an undercover police officer. Bell’s car, which also carried Guzman and Benefield, then backed up, hit a store’s security gate and smashed into the minivan again.

[Donk]

Cops never lie.

[Northman]

Originally Posted by Donk

Cops never lie.

Heh, i hear ya but there are some on this board who think corrupt cops dont exist.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by loborugger

Whats your point, beersnitch? Or are you just going after me cuz you know I think you are lower than the crap I scrape off my shoe.

I know of a situation similar to this. Two Federal agents were on surveillance in a rather unsavory neighborhood in Denver. Some of the local talent spotted them and a shoot out ensued. One agent was driving and evading while shooting outta the window. Meanwhile his "partner" lied on the floorboard, refusing not only to draw her weapon but to reload his weapon. She was immediately transfered.

I figure this situation is pretty much the same - maybe worse as the LT was a supervisor instead of a peer. Again, thats if the situation played out as the Newspaper reports it.

Further, one of the very basic tenants of leadership is to lead by example, never expecting your subordinates to do things you wouldnt do.

So, what is your point? Or is it just a personal vendetta? "He doesnt like me, cuz he knows I am a rat fink bastard, therefore his opinion must be wrong."

You gonna try and gimme a virus now, maybe find out my IP? Send my boss an email just cuz I dont bow at the altar of your opinion?

Damn boy, sounds like you're the one with some kind of vendetta. Take a blood pressure pill.