Do the fade have a better D than Denver? - The Orange Mane

azbroncfan · 11-26-2006, 10:30 PM

Watching the game today fade's D is pretty good, they get after it on the DL. THeir DL is obviously better than Denvers but they are good at LB and Secondary and very young at both. Not looking forward to that D next few years and hopefully their O remains pitiful.

Mile High Shack · 11-26-2006, 10:33 PM

yes

our defense is the worst in the AFC West, said that for about 6 weeks now

69bronco · 11-26-2006, 10:38 PM

I'd say the fade have one of the best defenses in the AFC. So definatly yea

Crushaholic · 11-26-2006, 10:39 PM

Absolutely. I've been saying for weeks that Oakland's defense is very good. People just chose to ignore that and continued to believe Oakland is a bad team. Their problem is that they don't know how to seal the deal. The Raiders are the biggest choke artists of any team this year...

Dudeskey · 11-26-2006, 10:42 PM

Unfortunately-

y.. ye.. yes

broncofan · 11-26-2006, 10:51 PM

Yes. Luckily their offense is one of the worst I've ever seen...if not the worst.

Popps · 11-26-2006, 11:35 PM

The the raiders can line up against a team like San Diego and not embarrass themselves, defensively.

Now THERE is a team that can legitimately blame their own offense for losing against the Chargers.

We had a 24-7 lead and ended up with 27 total points... and our defense just curled up in the fetal position and let SD walk all over them.

But, nothing new there. We pretty much do that any time we face a real offense.

Guys like Lang, Dumervil, Gold, Williams and others who look fancy against teams like Cleveland are absolutely invisible when faced up against offensive stars like LT, LJ, Manning, etc.

Let's just break this down as easy as we can...

Our defense has:

1 Superstar

1 Very good but undersized middle LB

1 Savvy, above average vet.....

and a bunch of on and off, rotational types and mid-level players.

Add to that a coordinator who has basically admitted he's done things wrong in the past and is trying to fix that (read, learn on the job) and you've got some real problems.

We DO have some speed... and we do have a few guys that can make plays. But, this is a defense, like the Colts... that will need to be PROTECTED by its offense. Shanahan has coached AROUND this defense in crucial situations.

Yes, I realize they held offenses like struggling St. Louis, Cleveland, Oakland, beat-up K.C to field goals. No one is saying that we're terrible.

What people are realizing (or admitting) now is that this is a shaky defense with some major holes if the offense isn't protecting it.

It's been that way for years. Only now, instead of Trevor Pryce disappearing in big games, it's "Big Money."

So, our hopes this season really do rest on Cutler being a savior, like that or not. Because, if he's not perfect... and we have to rely on this defense to protect a 4th quarter lead... as we did against SD and Indy.... we're ****ed.

Orange_Beard · 11-26-2006, 11:37 PM

It took about 5 games to come together but today they do.

Kaylore · 11-26-2006, 11:49 PM

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

Man-Goblin · 11-26-2006, 11:50 PM

I'm not sure about more talented...I haven't sat down and looked at every position. But they do have a better defense. Best in the division, as I said in another thread.

11-26-2006, 11:53 PM

among the 4 afc west, they do have the best D. we are 3rd in our own division in defense

theAPAOps5 · 11-26-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

Agreed right now they are better. But you didn't hear this talk about our D when we beat both NE and the Ravens. They were doing pretty darn good and then injuries hit. We need to address the DLine a little but our LB corps is still fast as all get out and tops in the league. We have one great CB and one decent one. The safety position has taken hits but were pretty darn good. Our drop in D is a result of injuries and lack of total depth. Heck I think our D comes out and plays just nasty Sunday night after the much needed rest.

Kaylore · 11-26-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Goblin

I'm not sure about more talented...I haven't sat down and looked at every position. But they do have a better defense. Best in the division, as I said in another thread.

I thought the thread said "D-line" for some reason. We do have some talented people but I've decided that our "let's let them do their thing and hope they make a mistake" philosophy isn't a very good one. We need to play more physical with our opponents and get some man beasts up front who can do that.

Taco John · 11-27-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

Hysterical is right.

ZachKC · 11-27-2006, 12:06 AM

I think its pretty incredible when you think about all the bad positions they are put in by that offense.

Pretty impressive.

boltaneer · 11-27-2006, 12:08 AM

Having McCardell out was bigger than most people will make out of it. He's not getting the TDs this year but his experience and clutch play are huge. Eric Parker is a nice number two receiver but he's not the type to be able to shoulder the load.

Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd have a long way to go. Their route running was terrible today and couldn't get a lot of seperation.

Gotta hand it to Oakland though. Both sides of their line outplayed the Chargers for most of the game. Their secondary played great though.

Killericon · 11-27-2006, 12:10 AM

2 weeks ago, we were either the best defense in the league, or the 2nd best, depending on if the person you were talking to was from Chicago.

No.

theAPAOps5 · 11-27-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltaneer

Having McCardell out was bigger than most people will make out of it. He's not getting the TDs this year but his experience and clutch play are huge. Eric Parker is a nice number two receiver but he's not the type to be able to shoulder the load.

Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd have a long way to go. Their route running was terrible today and couldn't get a lot of seperation.

Gotta hand it to Oakland though. Both sides of their line outplayed the Chargers for most of the game. Their secondary played great though.

When you are coming off two very emotional games you are bound for a let down. SD played pretty bad on offense but once again they made plays when needed. Although you have to agree that was a pretty lame call on Nate Jackson and a forward pass.

Al Wilson · 11-27-2006, 12:14 AM

Our defense is good. The problem is that they don't last long if the offense isn't moving the chains. For most of the first half against KC, the defense was on the field for more than 2/3 of the time. But that is no excuse if you consider yourself an elite defense. The defense is shaky sometimes, but some of the blame falls on Coyer(and the players too).

theAPAOps5 · 11-27-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachKC

I think its pretty incredible when you think about all the bad positions they are put in by that offense.

Pretty impressive.

I agree, Denver's O has been too inconsistent. They have turned it over too much or have not made key plays. A D is going to get worn out eventually. The D played lights our for a good amount of the games but after injuries and having to constantly play on short fields it catches up. Also remember the special teams has been anemic at best. The D can only do so much other sides of the team have to step up.

theAPAOps5 · 11-27-2006, 12:19 AM

Coyer also relents too much. Given a lead he drops back into a zone or prevent. That is the Denver Defensive weakness. He needs to leanr to go for the throat.

Man-Goblin · 11-27-2006, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I thought the thread said "D-line" for some reason. We do have some talented people but I've decided that our "let's let them do their thing and hope they make a mistake" philosophy isn't a very good one. We need to play more physical with our opponents and get some man beasts up front who can do that.

Well, the Broncos are locked into Warren for the long haul. Maybe we can convince a DT to eat him, put that DT in the middle with another hogmolly and see what happens?

Personally, I think Warren is fine; good DT but he needs help at the other inside position to make a push. They're problem is the ends, which may, or may not, require some man boobs.

ludo21 · 11-27-2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

no doubt.

Our D isnt NEAR as bad as some people claim them to be. They have folded for sure, but they also have made plays to give the offense.

Breck Bronc · 11-27-2006, 12:53 AM

They've definitely got a better defensive line. In the middle Warren Sapp is having a Comeback Player of the Year-type season and Tommy Kelly is playing good football. The unfortunately named Terdell Sands is a solid DT backup for Sapp and Kelly. Derrick Burgess is better at DE than anything we have, and Tyler Brayton is adept at kneeing guys in the balls.

Oakland doesn't have anybody in their secondary as good as Champ Bailey, but as a unit Nnamdi Asomugha, Fabian Washington, Michael Huff and Stuart Schweigert are playing as good as any back 4 in the league.

Denver probably has the better linebacker trio, though Gold, Williams and Wilson haven't done well the last two games.

maven · 11-27-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbroncfan

Watching the game today fade's D is pretty good, they get after it on the DL. THeir DL is obviously better than Denvers but they are good at LB and Secondary and very young at both. Not looking forward to that D next few years and hopefully their O remains pitiful.

They have a very nice young overall defense. If I ran the Raiders, I would continue and draft for their defense. Their defense definately has potential to be the best in the NFL. The Raiders would be smart to add more pieces via the draft and FA.

11-26-2006, 10:30 PM	#1
azbroncfan Ring of Famer Angry guntoting,meateating AMERICAN Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 8,669 Adopt-a-Bronco: TEBOW	Do the fade have a better D than Denver? Watching the game today fade's D is pretty good, they get after it on the DL. THeir DL is obviously better than Denvers but they are good at LB and Secondary and very young at both. Not looking forward to that D next few years and hopefully their O remains pitiful.

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11-26-2006, 10:33 PM	#2
Mile High Shack Ring of Famer Cock-a-doodle-do Join Date: May 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 17,010	yes our defense is the worst in the AFC West, said that for about 6 weeks now

11-26-2006, 10:38 PM	#3
69bronco negrodamus of NFL Q's Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 210	I'd say the fade have one of the best defenses in the AFC. So definatly yea

11-26-2006, 10:39 PM	#4
Crushaholic Armchair Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 22,044	Absolutely. I've been saying for weeks that Oakland's defense is very good. People just chose to ignore that and continued to believe Oakland is a bad team. Their problem is that they don't know how to seal the deal. The Raiders are the biggest choke artists of any team this year...

11-26-2006, 10:42 PM	#5
Dudeskey Ring of Famer This space for rent Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 4,314	Unfortunately- y.. ye.. yes

11-26-2006, 10:51 PM	#6
broncofan Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Philly PA Posts: 886	Yes. Luckily their offense is one of the worst I've ever seen...if not the worst.

11-26-2006, 11:35 PM	#7
Popps TEAM FIRST. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 29,786	The the raiders can line up against a team like San Diego and not embarrass themselves, defensively. Now THERE is a team that can legitimately blame their own offense for losing against the Chargers. We had a 24-7 lead and ended up with 27 total points... and our defense just curled up in the fetal position and let SD walk all over them. But, nothing new there. We pretty much do that any time we face a real offense. Guys like Lang, Dumervil, Gold, Williams and others who look fancy against teams like Cleveland are absolutely invisible when faced up against offensive stars like LT, LJ, Manning, etc. Let's just break this down as easy as we can... Our defense has: 1 Superstar 1 Very good but undersized middle LB 1 Savvy, above average vet..... and a bunch of on and off, rotational types and mid-level players. Add to that a coordinator who has basically admitted he's done things wrong in the past and is trying to fix that (read, learn on the job) and you've got some real problems. We DO have some speed... and we do have a few guys that can make plays. But, this is a defense, like the Colts... that will need to be PROTECTED by its offense. Shanahan has coached AROUND this defense in crucial situations. Yes, I realize they held offenses like struggling St. Louis, Cleveland, Oakland, beat-up K.C to field goals. No one is saying that we're terrible. What people are realizing (or admitting) now is that this is a shaky defense with some major holes if the offense isn't protecting it. It's been that way for years. Only now, instead of Trevor Pryce disappearing in big games, it's "Big Money." So, our hopes this season really do rest on Cutler being a savior, like that or not. Because, if he's not perfect... and we have to rely on this defense to protect a 4th quarter lead... as we did against SD and Indy.... we're ****ed.

11-26-2006, 11:37 PM	#8
Orange_Beard Over Jay Cutler Todd Snider Rules! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Leucadia, CA Posts: 7,836 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tony Scheffler	It took about 5 games to come together but today they do.

11-26-2006, 11:49 PM	#9
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,074 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

11-26-2006, 11:50 PM	#10
Man-Goblin Giving You The Business Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 5,589 Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard	I'm not sure about more talented...I haven't sat down and looked at every position. But they do have a better defense. Best in the division, as I said in another thread.

11-26-2006, 11:53 PM	#11
DB84FAN Guest Posts: n/a	among the 4 afc west, they do have the best D. we are 3rd in our own division in defense

11-27-2006, 12:06 AM	#15
ZachKC For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 9,665 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Kennison	I think its pretty incredible when you think about all the bad positions they are put in by that offense. Pretty impressive.

11-27-2006, 12:08 AM	#16
boltaneer 17 ATTA BABY! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: America's Finest City Posts: 4,068	Having McCardell out was bigger than most people will make out of it. He's not getting the TDs this year but his experience and clutch play are huge. Eric Parker is a nice number two receiver but he's not the type to be able to shoulder the load. Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd have a long way to go. Their route running was terrible today and couldn't get a lot of seperation. Gotta hand it to Oakland though. Both sides of their line outplayed the Chargers for most of the game. Their secondary played great though.

11-27-2006, 12:10 AM	#17
Killericon YES A DT!!!!!! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From Calgary, in Halifax for School Posts: 7,730 Adopt-a-Bronco: watermock	2 weeks ago, we were either the best defense in the league, or the 2nd best, depending on if the person you were talking to was from Chicago. No.

11-27-2006, 12:14 AM	#19
Al Wilson Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 942	Our defense is good. The problem is that they don't last long if the offense isn't moving the chains. For most of the first half against KC, the defense was on the field for more than 2/3 of the time. But that is no excuse if you consider yourself an elite defense. The defense is shaky sometimes, but some of the blame falls on Coyer(and the players too).

11-27-2006, 12:19 AM	#21
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,058 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Coyer also relents too much. Given a lead he drops back into a zone or prevent. That is the Denver Defensive weakness. He needs to leanr to go for the throat.

11-27-2006, 12:53 AM	#24
Breck Bronc Roland Deschain The Gunslinger Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,058	They've definitely got a better defensive line. In the middle Warren Sapp is having a Comeback Player of the Year-type season and Tommy Kelly is playing good football. The unfortunately named Terdell Sands is a solid DT backup for Sapp and Kelly. Derrick Burgess is better at DE than anything we have, and Tyler Brayton is adept at kneeing guys in the balls. Oakland doesn't have anybody in their secondary as good as Champ Bailey, but as a unit Nnamdi Asomugha, Fabian Washington, Michael Huff and Stuart Schweigert are playing as good as any back 4 in the league. Denver probably has the better linebacker trio, though Gold, Williams and Wilson haven't done well the last two games.