Plummer vs Rivers - The Orange Mane

riiiiick · 11-16-2006, 08:27 PM

This is a perfect match up to prove what i have been saying on here all year - intangibles are more important than stats for a Qb/team, especially in big games against quality teams. Rivers beats Plummer hands down in stats this year, but jake will beat him sunday. just like he beat mcnair, brady, ben and went toe to toe against manning this year. why? because this team is a tuff, smashmouth, gut checking veteran team with great leaders and a QB that never quits. every team in the NFL has great talent. intangibles are why this team wins 3 out of every 4 games they play and why they will beat rivers, LT, gates and co on sunday. they have not played a team like ours yet this year.

broncofan2438 · 11-16-2006, 08:29 PM

I like it, finally an intelligent and supportive comment regarding this weekends game

Kaylore · 11-16-2006, 08:33 PM

But what if both players have intangibles? Then it comes back to mechanics...

Atwater His Ass · 11-16-2006, 08:34 PM

I would still rather have Rivers.

400HZ · 11-16-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riiiiick

This is a perfect match up to prove what i have been saying on here all year - intangibles are more important than stats for a Qb/team, especially in big games against quality teams. Rivers beats Plummer hands down in stats this year, but jake will beat him sunday. just like he beat mcnair, brady, ben and went toe to toe against manning this year. why? because this team is a tuff, smashmouth, gut checking veteran team with great leaders and a QB that never quits. every team in the NFL has great talent. intangibles are why this team wins 3 out of every 4 games they play and why they will beat rivers, LT, gates and co on sunday. they have not played a team like ours yet this year.

You're right, I'd take Jake Plummer any day of the week over Phillip Rivers.

Lidderer · 11-16-2006, 08:38 PM

jake leads the league in Grit(beards inherently possess this and therefore tack on another 3.6 pts to his total grit output), heart(remember pat tillman folks? ya, well i do), and gumption(still unsure of what this is, but he has a .426, which is good enough to be behind only Terence Kiel(he got shot once, guys)).

Rivers may lead in Betterness, but where does that get you?

Who's with me on this one besides john cougar mellencamp?

Circle Orange · 11-16-2006, 09:03 PM

Rivers is showing the results of patience, talent, and the fact that his dad is a coach. Fundamentals and poise lead to success. He also had the benefit of prepping on the sidelines for two years.

Has much better legs than Jake, IMO. Of course this hasn't scientifically been proven to get anyone to the Hall of Fame. But details like this are important to the female fan base.

Sarcastro · 11-16-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

You're right, I'd take Jake Plummer any day of the week over Phillip Rivers.

Plummer is at the bottom of the league in nearly every passing stat, but his team is still winning! Clearly this is because of Jake's intangibles, and not a result of the rest of the team, especially the defense, being really good.

riiiiick · 11-16-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastro

Plummer is at the bottom of the league in nearly every passing stat, but his team is still winning! Clearly this is because of Jake's intangibles, and not a result of the rest of the team, especially the defense, being really good.

can you read? this TEAM wins because of their attitude, chemistry, intangibles, whatever you want to call it - that's what wins games in the superstar, all talent NFL.

Bob's your Information Minister · 11-16-2006, 10:36 PM

Plummer is a god damn joke. Rivers is going to be an elite QB in this league.

Taco John · 11-16-2006, 10:42 PM

Good Jake is going to show up this Sunday.

ChargerChuck · 11-16-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Good Jake is going to show up this Sunday.

That's probably true or his Ryan Leaf alter ego will, one of the two.

Rigs11 · 11-16-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Plummer is a god damn joke. Rivers is going to be an elite QB in this league.

He's got Tomlinson in the backfield. Obviously you in your grand wisdom can understand what this does to opposing defenses. Hell just be glad that you got Johnson, otherwise Huard would have sunk you ship this year.

Bob's your Information Minister · 11-16-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

He's got Tomlinson in the backfield. Obviously you in your grand wisdom can understand what this does to opposing defenses.

So did Brees. Rivers is already a better QB.

Rigs11 · 11-16-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

So did Brees. Rivers is already a better QB.

True.Tomlinson is on fire this year though.

WoodMan · 11-16-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Plummer is a god damn joke. Rivers is going to be an elite QB in this league.

Well yeah, he will get to play 2 games per year against that crappy Chef
_efense. That should boost his winning percentage!

riiiiick · 11-16-2006, 11:45 PM

just to stay in the league and be competitive for 10+ years is rare, rivers has a long way to go. he's had what, 5 good games? of course anyone would take a promising young guy over a guy with a couple good years left, but my thread is about this sunday. this sunday jake wins. heck, half the bronco fans on this board don't even agree with me, they think the same as you dolts.

Man-Goblin · 11-16-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

I would still rather have Rivers.

And I would rather have Cutler than both of them.

Chupacabra · 11-16-2006, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Goblin

And I would rather have Cutler than both of them.

ur crazy to rather have cutler than rivers

BigBad · 11-16-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lidderer

jake leads the league in Grit(beards inherently possess this and therefore tack on another 3.6 pts to his total grit output), heart(remember pat tillman folks? ya, well i do), and gumption(still unsure of what this is, but he has a .426, which is good enough to be behind only Terence Kiel(he got shot once, guys)).

Dont forget maturity and class

NOLA Bronco · 11-17-2006, 12:01 AM

Rivers has started 9 games. Its not even a comparison at this point, so lets not make any rash judgements.

Love the Bolt Fans and Anti-Plummer contingent on here. You would think the Broncos are 2-7 and haven't been to the playoffs in years.

shaun514 · 11-17-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Goblin

And I would rather have Cutler than both of them.

That's a stretch. Based on preaseason?

Popps · 11-17-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

But what if both players have intangibles? Then it comes back to mechanics...

No question.

Add those two together, and you have John Elway. Though, Elway was very "human" at times. Anyone who watched him long enough should remember.
In some ways, that almost made him more exciting to watch. He'd play a first half and couldn't hit the side of a barn, then come out and just make jaw-dropping plays in the second half to win a game. John always joked about his comeback record, saying that had he not gotten into so many holes, he wouldn't have had to come back. Obviously, that wasn't his doing. But, he was a risk-taker, and his career TD to INT ratio shows a little of that. But, I'd still take him in crunch time over any QB in the history of the game. Keep your pretty stats, I'll take John and his wins.

(Mouth breather disclaimer: This post is not saying Plummer is as good as Elway.) (Read that several times.)

But, Jake has some intangibles. There is NO question that his play is erratic at times. Very erratic at times. But, given his win-loss record in Denver, I also agree with the thread in that he's just got something to him.

Look at it this way. In Oakland, he plays crappy early on. Then, turns it on in the second half when he needs to. He was flawless on a couple of drives when he needed to be.

Now, the negative way of looking at that is.... "well, our defense saved him," and that's certainly true.

But the flipside is , he DOES have some light that goes on when it needs to, in most games.

Think of it this way, if he was just a flat out BAD quarterback.... he never brings the team back in that game. I think he was like 7 for 7 on that TD drive. A "bad" QB, or maybe one without those intangibles never makes that drive happen. Take Dante Culpepper, for instance. He would have just continued playing bad football the entire game.

Plummer is just a guy who makes a few dumb throws a game, but most of the time... makes up for it with the rest of his game, particularly in our system.

In watching the Oak tape again, it was almost impressive how bad he looked on some plays, and then how good he looked on others. Not only some pretty impressive throws, but a few of his normal drive-saving sack-eluding scrambles and completions. Those are the kinds of plays that never show up on stats, but DO tend to translate into wins.

Rivers is obviously more gifted and will likely have a more notable career.

Plummer clearly has his problems. But, it's about being realistic. Shanahan thought he realistically gave him the best chance to win this season.

We're 7-2. Obviously Shanahan knows a little something.

Popps · 11-17-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Good Jake is going to show up this Sunday.

As long as Good Jake shows up enough times in each game for us to win every week, I don't care if he's last in the universe in passer rating. Just keep putting those W's up.

That said, this WOULD be a particularly good weekend for the Jakester to pull his head out for the entire game. We need him to play like he did against NE/INDY.

ro_50 · 11-17-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riiiiick

can you read? this TEAM wins because of their attitude, chemistry, intangibles, whatever you want to call it - that's what wins games in the superstar, all talent NFL.

Dont other teams win based on this criteria as well?

11-16-2006, 08:27 PM	#1
riiiiick Solid Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 238	Plummer vs Rivers This is a perfect match up to prove what i have been saying on here all year - intangibles are more important than stats for a Qb/team, especially in big games against quality teams. Rivers beats Plummer hands down in stats this year, but jake will beat him sunday. just like he beat mcnair, brady, ben and went toe to toe against manning this year. why? because this team is a tuff, smashmouth, gut checking veteran team with great leaders and a QB that never quits. every team in the NFL has great talent. intangibles are why this team wins 3 out of every 4 games they play and why they will beat rivers, LT, gates and co on sunday. they have not played a team like ours yet this year.

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11-16-2006, 08:29 PM	#2
broncofan2438 Faneco this... LETS TAKE BACK THE AFC WEST Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,302 Adopt-a-Bronco: ERIC DECKER	I like it, finally an intelligent and supportive comment regarding this weekends game

11-16-2006, 08:33 PM	#3
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,074 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	But what if both players have intangibles? Then it comes back to mechanics...

11-16-2006, 08:34 PM	#4
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,364 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I would still rather have Rivers.

11-16-2006, 08:38 PM	#6
Lidderer & Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,780	jake leads the league in Grit(beards inherently possess this and therefore tack on another 3.6 pts to his total grit output), heart(remember pat tillman folks? ya, well i do), and gumption(still unsure of what this is, but he has a .426, which is good enough to be behind only Terence Kiel(he got shot once, guys)). Rivers may lead in Betterness, but where does that get you? Who's with me on this one besides john cougar mellencamp?

11-16-2006, 09:03 PM	#7
Circle Orange SPOT ON. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Styxx, D.C. Posts: 3,956	Rivers is showing the results of patience, talent, and the fact that his dad is a coach. Fundamentals and poise lead to success. He also had the benefit of prepping on the sidelines for two years. Has much better legs than Jake, IMO. Of course this hasn't scientifically been proven to get anyone to the Hall of Fame. But details like this are important to the female fan base.

11-16-2006, 10:36 PM	#10
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,921 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	Plummer is a god damn joke. Rivers is going to be an elite QB in this league.

11-16-2006, 10:42 PM	#11
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,708 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	Good Jake is going to show up this Sunday.

11-16-2006, 11:45 PM	#17
riiiiick Solid Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 238	just to stay in the league and be competitive for 10+ years is rare, rivers has a long way to go. he's had what, 5 good games? of course anyone would take a promising young guy over a guy with a couple good years left, but my thread is about this sunday. this sunday jake wins. heck, half the bronco fans on this board don't even agree with me, they think the same as you dolts.

11-17-2006, 12:01 AM	#21
NOLA Bronco Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 798 Adopt-a-Bronco: Shane Swanson	Rivers has started 9 games. Its not even a comparison at this point, so lets not make any rash judgements. Love the Bolt Fans and Anti-Plummer contingent on here. You would think the Broncos are 2-7 and haven't been to the playoffs in years.