Question of your approval of Bush in the vaccuum of the immigration issue

[Taco John]

I'm just curious how people, regardless of party, react to Bush's statement on immigration reform in the face of the election.

After the Republican loss, Bush was asked: What does this mean for your immigration policy?

Bush responded: "Yes, I think we have a better chance of getting immigration reform now with a Democrat-controlled Congress."



How do you feel about Bush on this issue?

[ClevelandBronco]

I don't have the vaguest idea what he means. Does that make me undecided or does my continuing support of the president put me in the "approve" category?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I totally disagree with his amnesty program for up to 25 million criminals!

[Crushaholic]

I've been on record before saying that Bush is/was very weak on the immigration issue. On THIS ISSUE, I vote disapprove...

[TailgateNut]

Anything short of deportation, incarceration is totally unacceptable!

[TheDave]

In fairness I don't know enough about his plan.... I remember his speach on it and don't recall haveing the same level of hatred i normally do... but i need to read up to have a more informed opinion.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

BTW, I "unapproved" of this plan.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I totally disagree with his amnesty program for up to 25 million criminals!

+1

[ClevelandBronco]

Okey-dokey. I think I get what he's saying now: That now he has a Congress that will roll over and play dead on the issue just as Mr. Bush himself has done.

I approve. I didn't expect a solution to the problem anyway. It's too big, and too politically charged for government to solve.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

Okey-dokey. I think I get what he's saying now: That now he has a Congress that will roll over and play dead on the issue just as Mr. Bush himself has done.

I approve. I didn't expect a solution to the problem anyway. It's too big, and too politically charged for government to solve.

Too big! Damn right, that's exactly why we need to address it now. Send the illegals packing, fine the employers, jail the smugglers.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

Send the illegals packing,

We can't find them all and the ones we do find and deport will come right back.

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

fine the employers,

Not enough. Jail the employers.

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

jail the smugglers.

Shoot the smugglers.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Actually a partial solution is pretty simple. Most of the illegals from Mexico and Central America come here because they cannot make a decent living at home. There are hundreds of thousands of unskilled and semi skilled jobs now being outsourced to in order: India, Eastern Europe, Canada, China, SE Asia and Russia. They are going there because those governments are agrressively chasing those jobs and providing some training and making it easy for American companies to do business. It would be much easier and cost effective for the US Government and the Mexican/Central American Governments to cooperate and bring some economic development to those countries. I am working a project right now that will create 2500 new jobs in India. Those jobs could just have easily gone to Mexico, if an effort was made to train people there and the Mexican government and government controlled utilities were not so hard to work with.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Actually a partial solution is pretty simple. Most of the illegals from Mexico and Central America come here because they cannot make a decent living at home. There are hundreds of thousands of unskilled and semi skilled jobs now being outsourced to in order: India, Eastern Europe, Canada, China, SE Asia and Russia. They are going there because those governments are agrressively chasing those jobs and providing some training and making it easy for American companies to do business. It would be much easier and cost effective for the US Government and the Mexican/Central American Governments to cooperate and bring some economic development to those countries. I am working a project right now that will create 2500 new jobs in India. Those jobs could just have easily gone to Mexico, if an effort was made to train people there and the Mexican government and government controlled utilities were not so hard to work with.

Those jobs could also stay the hell in this country. Let other countries create their own jobs. Send all the illegals packing and enforce our borders. Period!
If employers want to outsource make them pay tarrifs for products shipped into the country. They are no better than those who employ illegals to lowball their products and prices!

[spdirty]

Just remember all you who are celebrating the election results. The REPUBLICAN HOUSE are the ones that flipped him the bird and told him to go to hell on this issue. Now that the Dems are in there, with Bush nonetheless, AMNESTY FOR ALL!!!!!!

gracious Democrats and Bush, gracious.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Just remember all you who are celebrating the election results. The REPUBLICAN HOUSE are the ones that flipped him the bird and told him to go to hell on this issue. Now that the Dems are in there, with Bush nonetheless, AMNESTY FOR ALL!!!!!!

gracious Democrats and Bush, gracious.

I would hope that this election showed our representatives that public sentiment must be heeded when making these types of decisions!

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

I would hope that this election showed our representatives that public sentiment must be heeded when making these types of decisions!

Well, we have the same hope, but it will not be heard, guarunteed. My hope is that the democrats are too busy with investigations and impeachments to even look at the issue. I would rather they leave it alone than make it worse. I would also hope the the GOP make Tancredo minority leader, but that has about as good a shot as Schwartzenegger being elected president.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

Those jobs could also stay the hell in this country. Let other countries create their own jobs. Send all the illegals packing and enforce our borders. Period!
If employers want to outsource make them pay tarrifs for products shipped into the country. They are no better than those who employ illegals to lowball their products and prices!

NO. These are jobs no one in the US wants. Staffing call centers is the lettuce picking of this and next decade. Even in the high end call centers in the US, the turnover is enormous. Many call center jobs in the US turn over 3-4 times a year - they are terrible jobs. Would you like to sit by a telephone all day and have customers scream at you because their TV picture is fuzzy or call out on sales calls and have 70% of people hang up on you or scream at you for interupting their personal time.

[gunns]

We can't find them all and the ones we do find and deport will come right back.

Not enough. Jail the employers.

Both exactlly right. Employers are the biggest problem. And a fence is a joke.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

NO. These are jobs no one in the US wants. Staffing call centers is the lettuce picking of this and next decade. Even in the high end call centers in the US, the turnover is enormous. Many call center jobs in the US turn over 3-4 times a year - they are terrible jobs. Would you like to sit by a telephone all day and have customers scream at you because their TV picture is fuzzy or call out on sales calls and have 70% of people hang up on you or scream at you for interupting their personal time.

Or you can apply to do level2 SunMicrosystem support and they offer to pay you $9/hr, with no benifits in a closed in room with 40 people with poor ventilation. Gee i wonder why turnover was high there.....

[Traveler]

Popps and I had a heated discussion about this many years ago. I've changed my stance on this issue a little since then. For those that say they do the jobs that American won't ( I used to be in that camp), I call BS. I think most Americans will do any job if the pay is fair.

That said, it's just not economically feasable to find, identify, and deport all illegal immigrants.

IMO, more emphasis should be placed on identifying and fining the employers that hire theses workers. Take away the incentive for them to come here in the first place.

And for those that are here, give them the opportuinity to become legalized citizens by fining them too, but also allow them complete the necessary paperwork to become U.S. Citizens, with monetary assistance of their employers. There should also be a certain time period/deadline for them to have all necessary immigration paperwork submitted.

What the criteria to be used to achieve these ends can be worked out by Congress.

[Rohirrim]

I'm opposed to a fence because there are a lot of animals that migrate across that border. Besides, it's useless. A twenty foot fence means a twenty one foot ladder. We could be more effective with electronic surveillance. Get rid of NAFTA and the numbers of illegals massively drop. Start fining employers and the numbers drop. In thirty years, when the population of the U.S. hits 400 million, we will deeply regret that we didn't do anything about this.

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

NO. These are jobs no one in the US wants. Staffing call centers is the lettuce picking of this and next decade. Even in the high end call centers in the US, the turnover is enormous. Many call center jobs in the US turn over 3-4 times a year - they are terrible jobs. Would you like to sit by a telephone all day and have customers scream at you because their TV picture is fuzzy or call out on sales calls and have 70% of people hang up on you or scream at you for interupting their personal time.

So the answer is to hire some people in India tell them to answer "HellO, my Name is BUHob...How may I help yoooo?" and then watch the frustation level of the customer rise as he tries to explain in common colloquial english ( which the Indian CSR DOESN"T speak) what his problem is? The common answer is the call center in India doesn't solve the customers problem, because the language barrier is much greater than it is assumed to be.

I am a field rep for a major company. Our competitors have shifted their call centers to India. One of the major factors that have resulted in us having record sales the last three years is that we have maintained OUR call center in NC.

Yes, the turnover is somewhat high...( only about once a year though), but most of the churn has been CSR's either finishing their degrees and moving on or actually moving into Higher positions within OUR company. Although the positions are not the highest paid they are well above minimum wage. And there ARE chances to move up.

The reason for the failure of most US call centers is that they do not hire qualified people, or train the people, to be helpful to the customers, because they do not PAY them well enough.

In business , as in ALL life, you get what you PAY for. A foreign call center appears to be less of a cost center to the MBA. It doesn't really take into account the FULL and long term effect that move has on customer brand loyalty and customer service impression.

The only reason the public accepts the lower standard of service, that the foreign call center means, is that almost all companies have moved them there... thereby lowering the bar. Poor service is still poor service......even if it is the norm.

[Old Dude]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

NO. These are jobs no one in the US wants. Staffing call centers is the lettuce picking of this and next decade. Even in the high end call centers in the US, the turnover is enormous. Many call center jobs in the US turn over 3-4 times a year - they are terrible jobs. Would you like to sit by a telephone all day and have customers scream at you because their TV picture is fuzzy or call out on sales calls and have 70% of people hang up on you or scream at you for interupting their personal time.

About a year ago, I got a call from some lady with a heavy Indian accent over a late credit card bill. Mind you, we've had that card for nearly 20 years, have never missed a payment, have wracked up lots of stuff on it and have a credit limit that's absolutely obscene. The reason this one was late was because they, themselves screwed up and didn't get us the bill on time. And we're talking about an outstanding balance of less than $150.

She wanted to know if I'd be so kind as to give her my bank account number so that they could withdraw the funds immediately from my account.

It's been a while since I yelled at anyone that loud.

Well, anyone not wearing a Raiders or Chiefs jersey....

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

About a year ago, I got a call from some lady with a heavy Indian accent over a late credit card bill. Mind you, we've had that card for nearly 20 years, have never missed a payment, have wracked up lots of stuff on it and have a credit limit that's absolutely obscene. The reason this one was late was because they, themselves screwed up and didn't get us the bill on time. And we're talking about an outstanding balance of less than $150.

She wanted to know if I'd be so kind as to give her my bank account number so that they could withdraw the funds immediately from my account.

It's been a while since I yelled at anyone that loud.

Well, anyone not wearing a Raiders or Chiefs jersey....

I had a similar experience, except I paid my bill on time. The Indian lady told me that I had been fined upwards of 60 dollars because of an overage on my account. Come to find out that months before they had split my account into two smaller acounts without my knowledge, and all of my payments had been going into only one of the accounts, which allowed the other account's interest to accrue over the credit limit.

I was tiiiiicked, and it took multiple calls to get it straightened out because the indian people I was talking to would not avoid the same speil over and over before they would refer me to someone who could get the job done.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Or you can apply to do level2 SunMicrosystem support and they offer to pay you $9/hr, with no benifits in a closed in room with 40 people with poor ventilation. Gee i wonder why turnover was high there.....

Exactly - That is what the majority of call centers are like. Sun is probably better than most. I to travel to quite a few "high end" US based call centers. I always threaten my girls that I am going to take video of the conditions so that they will know what kind of job they will have if they don't do well in school.