Thread for people who are enjoying the win but still want Plummer benched.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by cah412

Someone else said the running game wasn't producing this year as it had in the past. Well, our starter last year, MA, averaged 4.2 yds per carry while Tater averaged 5.3 yds. Since MA had substantially more carries than Tater, that means our average was somewhere below 4.7 ypc. This year, so far, Tater is averaging 4.7 yds per carry despite teams stacking against the run and forcing Jake to beat them. When you account for the focus of opposing D's being on the run as well as the successful ground game, that just wont fly as the scape goat.

But...you have to look at the big play in the running game....how many runs of 15-20 or longer.

another thing to factor in is that we are 28th in starting field positon as well.


Look...I don't care who is the QB....I just want the laundry to win the game, and right now...I think Plummer gives us the better chance in the short term, and we are going to beat the Colts...and maybe not the Steelers because we areplaying in their house. We own the Colts at home

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Hulamau

Define "what if he plays poorly" Willy? You mean like throwing a 48% completion average like today, or how about a total of only 4 TDs and 7 INTs over 6 games? Throwing balls right to defenders repeatedly? Thank God the Browns DBs have stone hands or we could have lost this one!

Remember these guys dont play in a vaccum but as a team, and though Cutler will make a number of rookie mistakes when he gets in, there is little chance he stinks it up any worse than Plummer with this cast and crew around him.

Shanny can even ease him in and spoon feeding him this same conservative pablum offense he's got Jake leashed to as he gets up to speed.

For every INT Jay-Cee throws he'll also drive the field for a TD as well as put light a spark in this offense that it sorely deserves. I know the defense will appreciate having and offense that can move the ball consistently, even if they turn it over at times

Cutler will also get Scheffler, Marshall and Kircus much more involved making game planning against us a nightmare for opposing DCs.

Right now the game plan for other teams is to slow Tatum, Walker and keep Jake in the pocket. Luckily our defense has made most of those game plans moot at this point, but its not likely to last.

So what if Cutler struggles too ... at least he'll be improving week in and week out and not whistling past the grave yard waiting for the roof to cave in as we are with Plummer at the helm. Jake is NEVER going to get much better, even if he has a decent game occasionally.

Sticking with him is just promising a heartbreak sooner or later this year.

I said three weeks ago that Jake had three weeks to bust out, turn it around and show he can truly lead this offense to playoff calibre play. He has failed to do so, even though we are winning thanks to the defense. Furthermore, he's had MORE than enough chances at this point to satisfy any but the terminally 'snake bit' homer!

I want to win in the worst way this year, but I'm now convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that Cutler gives us the best chance from here on out, and even if we don't make it all the way, which is a crap shoot in any event, at least we'll be that much closer to becoming a complete team and ready to win it all at the soonest possible date!

A well-crafted post, but I'm still not buying it. It's goofy, goofy, goofy to be hooting for Jay. I'd think you and others would at some point realize how foolish you make yourselves. Jay will not be playing any time soon. When will that finally sink in? Jake keeps driving the team on long scoring drives, he's playing pretty well, the O staff pretty much just wants to see Jake and everybody else execute a little better, they have a known commodity, the team is 5-1 and in first place. When is it finally going to sink in that Jay is not going to play?

[Jetmeck]

Originally Posted by Popps

It really is baffling.

He just didn't do this crap last year.... and really, I don't think he's looked that off since week 1. I can't figure out if it's the threat of being replaced, a new system... or what. Why was he able to control the offense SO well all last season, and is struggling now?

He had a chance to really help his case and just close out a game today, and just looked out of it.

Well, I don't know what the answer is... as I don't think starting a rookie against Indy/Pitt is the way to go. But, I'll say this... Jake has to prove himself now, and he's picked a very tough spot to do it.

If you look at his numbers tell me they don't resemble something a rookie would have. Tell me about rooks making bad throws then watch Jake.

Leinart and Young are playing as well as Plummer is in his 10th season and they ARE rooks but don't have as good a team around them. Cutler WOULD have a much better team around him than the aforementioned rooks and could win for us know.

Plummer is going to implode against a great playoff type team and we all know it. Look what he is doing against bad teams.

[dbfan4life]

Bench Jake against Indy. That way we can start a thread on why even though we lost, Cutler is still the man. I can't defend Jake's play but I feel 100% that starting Cutler against a team with one of the leagues premier pass rushers is not a smart thing to do.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

A well-crafted post, but I'm still not buying it. It's goofy, goofy, goofy to be hooting for Jay. I'd think you and others would at some point realize how foolish you make yourselves. Jay will not be playing any time soon. When will that finally sink in? Jake keeps driving the team on long scoring drives, he's playing pretty well, the O staff pretty much just wants to see Jake and everybody else execute a little better, they have a known commodity, the team is 5-1 and in first place. When is it finally going to sink in that Jay is not going to play?

If Plummer plays this way next week he will be booed off the field, is that sinking in?

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

But...you have to look at the big play in the running game....how many runs of 15-20 or longer.

another thing to factor in is that we are 28th in starting field positon as well.


Look...I don't care who is the QB....I just want the laundry to win the game, and right now...I think Plummer gives us the better chance in the short term, and we are going to beat the Colts...and maybe not the Steelers because we areplaying in their house. We own the Colts at home

I completely agree. The starting field position can kick you in the jimmy but didn't we start off twice in the first quarter at or beyond the 50 just to come away empty?

And I 100,000% agree with you on not caring who the QB is. I think everyone else is in that same boat. Last year, there were those saying Tater needed to get more carries, Dayne needed to get more carries, stuff like that. There will always be people crying the what if's about the backups. Someone the other day was spouting moving Marshall above Rod, you'll always have those people but this isn't one of those cases. I venture to say that 80% of the people here would be satisified with Jake's sub-50% completion percentage had he not thrown the one bad pick and the many that should've been picks. You can also see this in the number of people converting from the protect Jake to the F-k Jake camps. He's not only crapping on drives and holding back the O occasionally, he's setting us up for failure and we're just waiting for someone to sieze the opportunity. But yes, as you said, I couldn't care less who the QB is in name, I just want someone who wont hold us back from showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish.

[Garcia Bronco]

What about McNabb....he threw 3 int's today...two TD's to the other team..still accounted for 33 plus points in FF........The Eagles lost. Awesome. Would you rather have that?

[Circle Orange]

Originally Posted by Taco John

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

Everything, anything, and everyone must go. Even the stadium. Scorched earth is best. Burn it all down and start from scratch! I think we should protest by posting blank threads until Jake is gone. Something simple, like orange text on an orange background.

You know its bad when commentators are agitating for a quarterback switch.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by cah412

I completely agree. The starting field position can kick you in the jimmy but didn't we start off twice in the first quarter at or beyond the 50 just to come away empty?

And I 100,000% agree with you on not caring who the QB is. I think everyone else is in that same boat. Last year, there were those saying Tater needed to get more carries, Dayne needed to get more carries, stuff like that. There will always be people crying the what if's about the backups. Someone the other day was spouting moving Marshall above Rod, you'll always have those people but this isn't one of those cases. I venture to say that 80% of the people here would be satisified with Jake's sub-50% completion percentage had he not thrown the one bad pick and the many that should've been picks. You can also see this in the number of people converting from the protect Jake to the F-k Jake camps. He's not only crapping on drives and holding back the O occasionally, he's setting us up for failure and we're just waiting for someone to sieze the opportunity. But yes, as you said, I couldn't care less who the QB is in name, I just want someone who wont hold us back from showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish.

I think we are showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish...we are 5-1...ahead in our divison. The Eagles...have much better offense...they are with a game of .500 nad have lost two straight games...McNabb is having a great statistical season. Doesn't matter though...they are lsoing

[telluride]

I think Jake lost the locker room today. You know the defense wanted to make history, and Jake screwed that up. The D has to be tired of dragging this team's ass out of the messes that Jake consistently creates.

Just watch this week unfold. Jake has lost the team.

[Rashomon]

There is just no way you can replace the starting QB on a team that has won 5 straight games, no matter how poorly he is playing. Some other posters have mentioned it, and I agree that the realistic scenario is if Plummer and the offense play poorly the next two games, and the Broncos lose those games, Cutler could be starting at Oakland.
ESPN is reporting that as a likely scenario.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2634996

At that point, Shanahan would have stuck with Plummer thru half the season. If Cutler is showing everyone enough in practice to make them feel comfortable, then he could be forced to move in a different direction to try to spark the offense. I don't think anyone realistically thinks that the Broncos will make a deep playoff run averaging less than 14 ppg.

[elsid13]

I realized if Denver benches Plummer, there goes his trade value. But if we keep playing him, his trade value takes big hit, too. Damned either way.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

If you look at his numbers tell me they don't resemble something a rookie would have. Tell me about rooks making bad throws then watch Jake.

Leinart and Young are playing as well as Plummer is in his 10th season and they ARE rooks but don't have as good a team around them. Cutler WOULD have a much better team around him than the aforementioned rooks and could win for us know.

Plummer is going to implode against a great playoff type team and we all know it. Look what he is doing against bad teams.

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1

[dbfan4life]

Just looking at the game highlights, Jake had an up and down game. Really, more down than up. What can we do? I am certain that we will not bench Jake no matter how much this board b****es and whines. So the question is not when do we bench Jake but when does that Jake of last year emerge? Your guess is as good as mine. No matter what, though, I root for this team with all I have! **** all this talk of Plummer being benched and **** all those who keep asking for Jake to be benched.

[Jetmeck]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

What about McNabb....he threw 3 int's today...two TD's to the other team..still accounted for 33 plus points in FF........The Eagles lost. Awesome. Would you rather have that?

You are not seriously comparing Plummer to what is right now the best QB in the leaque, are you ? McNabb has a bad game once in awhile, with consistent good to great games. Plummer is consistently bad with a couple of DECENT throws here and there.

[Jetmeck]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1

What did I say ? Read it again, LEINART and Young play on bad teams. Cutler would have a very good team around him and could win now. Plummer is being propped up by our team, he is holding us back and you know it.

The two rooks on bad teams could outplay Jake any day.
Give a decent qb we would be super bowl material.

[Hulamau]

I don't expect Cutler will start against Indy or the Steelers either (unless JAke throws 3 or 4 picks next week). Its not politically expedient for Shanny to do so quite yet.

But I also bet the well-connected 'Source' that Mort got the info from that Shanny is considering Cutler if JAke cant win against Indy and/or the Steelers is right as well!

It is likely all part of Shanny's carefully considered method of gradually plowing the field of expectations while also turning the heat up on Jake to try to get him to play better. He's letting Cutler know too to get ready after week 8 (that's been my target all along as well when Jay-Cee will likely be up to speed enough to step in and play at a decent level).

Of course, Shanny has been praying Plummer could Carpe Diem this whole thing and take the bull by the horns, but he is also signaling his patience has limits as well!

Witnessing this terrible offensive first half of this season in the context of the past few years and indeed Jake's whole career, Plummer simply has no more money left in the 'bank of second chances', and anyone that thinks Plummer could possibly lead us to the promiseland playing like this has got to be delusional.

Going to Cutler after the Steelers game guarantees us nothing this year, other than a greatly excellerated maturation period and a better chance in 2007 while still giving us at least as much chance to win it all now as we've got with Jake (slim as that might be).

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1

Unfortunately, if things don't start rolling we could weasle our way to a 12 or 13 win season but this wont fly when the big dogs came to play in December and January. While our D has been good, our D has also been lucky (See the Lamont Jordan fumble or any of Champs RZ INTs) and we can't count on that. Without some lucky breaks, we'd be doing well but we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now with points allowed and possibly even wins. Ultimately, I'd take a few games lost to Cutler errors if he can make us a stronger push when the time comes. Sneaking our with through the season with this 17 point ceiling we have isn't gonna fly when it comes time for trophies and, whether it be with 9 or 15 wins, the playoffs and then those rings are all I'm really concerned with.

[Rohirrim]

The other thing no one has mentioned, Jake killed the momentum for the entire team. Champ picked it off in the EZ. The Broncos on the sidelines were starting to loosen up. The game tension was broken. The Browns were starting to hang their heads. The D made the big play. The shut out was intact. All the O had to do was orchestrate one of those four to six minute drives and the game is over. Two plays later, Jake tosses the ball directly into the stomach of the opposition. Bailey barely has time to celebrate his TO before he has to run back onto the field. The Browns get fired up. The D has to stop the party and get back on the field to clean up after Jake - again. Talk about a buzz killer. Frye does his job and the Browns score. The scoreless streak is dead. The Browns are back in it. A game that was in the bag was now squirting all over the field again. Not only that. Now Jake starts really spraying it. What saves the Broncos? The Browns D have lousy hands.

Put that banner across the paper tomorrow: Browns Bad Hands Give Broncos Victory.

Bottom line. Jake took a game that was in the bag and turned it into a nailbiter. Shanahan doesn't need this crap. He's getting too old for this crap.

[Jetmeck]

Originally Posted by Hulamau

I don't expect Cutler will start against Indy or the Steelers either (unless JAke throws 3 or 4 picks next week). Its not politically expedient for Shanny to do so quite yet.

But I also bet the well-connected 'Source' that Mort got the info from that Shanny is considering Cutler if JAke cant win against Indy and/or the Steelers is right as well!

It is likely all part of Shanny's carefully considered method of gradually plowing the field of expectations while also turning the heat up on Jake to try to get him to play better. He's letting Cutler know too to get ready after week 8 (that's been my target all along as well when Jay-Cee will likely be up to speed enough to step in and play at a decent level).

Of course, Shanny has been praying Plummer could Carpe Diem this whole thing and take the bull by the horns, but he is also signaling his patience has limits as well!

Witnessing this terrible offensive first half of this season in teh context of teh past few years and Jake's whole career, Plummer simply has no more money left in the 'bank of second chances', and anyone that thinks Plummer could possibly led us to the promiseland playing like this has got to be delusional.

Going to Cutler after the Steelers game guarantees us nothing this year, other than a greatly excellerated maturation period and a better chance in 2007 while still giving us at least as much chance to win it all now as we've got with Jake (slim as that might be).

Very well put........

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

You are not seriously comparing Plummer to what is right now the best QB in the leaque, are you ? McNabb has a bad game once in awhile, with consistent good to great games. Plummer is consistently bad with a couple of DECENT throws here and there.

McNabb is a surpremely better QB, but his team is playing 500 ball...and that's the point.

[Hulamau]

Originally Posted by cah412

Unfortunately, if things don't start rolling we could weasle our way to a 12 or 13 win season but this wont fly when the big dogs came to play in December and January. While our D has been good, our D has also been lucky (See the Lamont Jordan fumble or any of Champs RZ INTs) and we can't count on that. Without some lucky breaks, we'd be doing well but we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now with points allowed and possibly even wins. Ultimately, I'd take a few games lost to Cutler errors if he can make us a stronger push when the time comes. Sneaking our with through the season with this 17 point ceiling we have isn't gonna fly when it comes time for trophies and, whether it be with 9 or 15 wins, the playoffs and then those rings are all I'm really concerned with.

good post cah412,

Cutler could lose a couple more games than perhaps Jake might lose in the next couple months and still give us a better chance in the playoffs as he gets better by leaps and bounds each game

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by No1BroncoFan

Why is it that the Plummer debate always has to devolve to hostile name-calling bullsh*t? It comes from both side, so I'm not singling out Freak or any other Maner. Just curious. I've got my opinion of why we should stay with Plummer (and believe me, it's not his play) while others have their opinions of why we should start Cutler. The fact that we can't respect each other (and the mods don't seem to care) has taken a lot from the site.

Ben

Word. From what I've read lately, haven't been on much, freak is the worst at name calling hence the reason i don't read his posts.

[gadlaw]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

If Plummer plays this way next week he will be booed off the field, is that sinking in?

As the man said, the team is 5 - 1 and in first place. I'm not sure that has sunk in for you yet.

[SprintRightOption]

Okay. The shark has been jumped, people. It is about 8:30pm central time on October 22. So far in this thread we have heard:

- someone say they prefer we lose to the Colts, because that might get Jay in there

- someone say that there is no way we will make the playoffs (not win in them, just get there) if Plummer keeps starting

- several people say he is not capable of playing any better than he has, despite the 2003, 2005 (or the first 9 games of, according to coltsoja) or 2004 seasons, in that order.

Jake had a ****ty day and should have had 3-4 picks, and his 2006 season has been pretty bad overall. But I don't think he's the worst QB in the league, and I'm going to do something crazy: root for the Broncos and whoever plays QB next week.

I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.