Thread for people who are enjoying the win but still want Plummer benched.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

Actually "lurker" they are 5-1 and it has been rumored that Cutler could have played as early today and that if Plummer loses in the next 2 weeks it shows he can't win in January as well. So in reality the only way Plummer plays on is if he breaks out in the next two weeks.

Whose rumoring it? The sports writers? There goes your credibility.

[baja]

It's simple! Stay with Plummer and we lose against the Colts. Start Jay there is nothing to lose.

[-Slap-]

You know what's funny? Jake has steadily eroded his base of support with each sub-par performance. People who were pleading for patience a couple weeks ago are ready to pelt his porch with garbage and rotten fruit today.

Not that I blame them. We all have different breaking points. We all have different capacities for self deception.

[No1BroncoFan]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

I really, really doubt Cutler would play worse than Plummer has, but if he did we could always go back to Jake for rest of the season.

No, we couldn't just go back to Plummer. Benching Jake in favor of the rookie is a one way street.

I have not been impressed by Jake's play this season, but the rook is not the answer. Our offensive line isn't good enough in pass protection to stop the all out bull rush they'd face week in and week out if Cutler was back there.

Ben

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Broncos are a history masking team. Probably the only team to be 5 -1,
sole posession of 1st place in their division, winner of 5 in a row,
ranked in the top 5 of all sportswriters polls.

And the fans are calling for benching a veteran starting QB for an unproven rookie. Gotta love those Denver fans.

It makes me ashamed... Cutler will get his chance...the instant oatmeal generation just want it now...and why...because we don't win by 40. Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts. What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by -Slap-

You know what's funny?

We all have different capacities for self deception.

I always marvel at people's failure to objectively look at the NFL from season to season. Week one was just a continuation of the AFC CG, and it won't stop.

Other famous morons have relied upon "Stay the Course", but at least we are WINNING!!!

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

It makes me ashamed... Cutler will get his chance...the instant oatmeal generation just want it now...and why...because we don't win by 40. Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts. What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...ghlight=Garcia

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts.

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.

[Cito Pelon]

I saw the Broncos have had the worst starting position in the NFL prior to this game. People forget how hard it is to continually drive out of a hole, and still put points up. Jake and the guys have done a good job overcoming that.

[watermock]

Just for your information, BOB...we have been 5-1 before and fell on our collective faces.

I have to agree with RO...it's about ONE GAME and WINNING it.

We get to listen to apologists all week saying we are 5-1.

WE ARE 5-1 BECAUSE OUR DEFENSE IS SHUT DOWN.

[SprintRightOption]

First, another smackdown performance by the defense, who deserved the shutout if Jake doesn't give Cleveland first down at the 18.

What was his "realistic" interception total today? There were at least 2 that clanged right off the hands of a defender in the 4th quarter: the left seam pass to Rod that the diving DB got 2 hands on put couldn't pull in, and the 3rd down pass to Javon short right that looked from the live camera like a pick because it hit hit squarely in the chest then bounced down to the ground then into his hands. I think there was at least one more, so that would be 2, but I don't think the first real pick was that much Jake's fault because it hit kircus then bounced up and was caught on the dive by Baxter. What other dropped picks am I missing?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

Look at the other starters around the league and tell me one guy you WOULDN'T take over Plummer.

These are guys that have started that I wouldn't take over Plummer

Walters
Kitna
McNair
Gradowski
Bledsoe
Huard
Warner
Vick
Harrington
Culpepper
Brooks

[DarkHorse30]

The biggest problem with Jake is that he has developed happy feet. Nearly every throw he's dancing around in the pocket waiting for somebody to be WIDE open. That's fine if you're Jay Cutler and this is your first year......but Plummer is supposed to know the system inside and out. Then, when he finally decides to loft one out there, the timing is off and the WR rarely can make a move for RAC. Maybe Jake just can't read defenses or something, but he often looks completely lost.

I seriously doubt Cutler would look MORE lost than Plummer does. Plus, Shanahan would be forced into running more.....which is what he should be doing in the first place. Plus, when Jay sees someone getting open, he can probably gun it in there instead of waiting for the guy to get MORE open, or something.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

Well sh*t, lets get someone in there that CAN play from the pocket and SEE the whole field.

[Northman]

Originally Posted by lvbronco

Message from a long time objective lurker. The only way you see Cutler this year is if Plummer is injured. Bottom line is Shanny makes that decision and we are 4-1 and that's the important stat.

You mean 5-1.

[Hulamau]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

Define "what if he plays poorly" Willy? You mean like throwing a 48% completion average like today, or how about a total of only 4 TDs and 7 INTs over 6 games? Throwing balls right to defenders repeatedly? Thank God the Browns DBs have stone hands or we could have lost this one!

Remember these guys dont play in a vaccum but as a team, and though Cutler will make a number of rookie mistakes when he gets in, there is little chance he stinks it up any worse than Plummer with this cast and crew around him.

Shanny can even ease him in and spoon feed him this same conservative pablum offense he's got Jake leashed to as he gets up to speed.

For every INT Jay-Cee throws he'll also drive the field for a TD as well as light a spark in this offense that it sorely deserves. I know the defense will appreciate having and offense that can move the ball consistently, even if they turn it over at times

Cutler will also get Scheffler, Marshall and Kircus much more involved making game planning against us a nightmare for opposing DCs.

Right now the game plan for other teams is to slow Tatum, Walker and keep Jake in the pocket. Luckily our defense has made most of those game plans moot at this point, but its not likely to last.

So what if Cutler struggles too ... at least he'll be improving week in and week out and not whistling past the grave yard waiting for the roof to cave in as we are with Plummer at the helm. Jake is NEVER going to get much better, even if he has a decent game occasionally.

Sticking with him is just promising a heartbreak sooner or later this year.

I said three weeks ago that Jake had three weeks to bust out, turn it around and show he can truly lead this offense to playoff calibre play. He has failed to do so, even though we are winning thanks to the defense. Furthermore, he's had MORE than enough chances at this point to satisfy any but the terminally 'snake bit' homer!

I want to win in the worst way this year, but I'm now convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that Cutler gives us the best chance from here on out, and even if we don't make it all the way, which is a crap shoot in any event, at least we'll be that much closer to becoming a complete team and ready to win it all at the soonest possible date!

[No1BroncoFan]

Originally Posted by freak6

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:

Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.

Why is it that the Plummer debate always has to devolve to hostile name-calling bullsh*t? It comes from both side, so I'm not singling out Freak or any other Maner. Just curious. I've got my opinion of why we should stay with Plummer (and believe me, it's not his play) while others have their opinions of why we should start Cutler. The fact that we can't respect each other (and the mods don't seem to care) has taken a lot from the site.

Ben

[bpc]

I've held firm in support of Plummer...

I agree totally with Slap. We are stuck now. I think he could do very well against Indy but any mistake will be magnified now. We are unfortunately better off going with Jake. As for Pittsburgh... that would be a tough task for anybody let alone a fresh rookie who has no starts.

We are looking at Oakland being his first realistic chance to start now.

COME ON DEFENSE, you have to get us through the next two weeks.

[hades]

What happens when the D has an off game, and the O can't bail them out?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by freak6

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:



Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.

It's what rookie QB's see in the NFL...8 man fronts. Let what slide? Bring it. You think are running game is now what it was last year...or four years ago...or when John Elway was here with Davis. Get a grip. You are blinded by your hatred which is why you changed you user name....who are you going to be next week? We aren't taking over games with our running game like in the past

[DrFate]

I've defended Plummer as much as anybody (mainly because he took too much abuse for playoff losses then the defense didn't show up). That said, Plummer has been miserable nearly all year. It is clear to most that the Broncos are running what amounts to a high-school passing game (one read and a dump off - and sometimes Plummer throws to that one read, covered or not). I can't see how Cutler playing could possibly result in fewer points or more turnovers. The Brownies should have had 4 INTs today, if they could catch.

Plenty of rookies play their first year. We could run a run-first, conservative 'protect Cutler' offense - and still get more production than we have to date. I'm not too eager to see next week.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by -Slap-

You know what's funny? Jake has steadily eroded his base of support with each sub-par performance. People who were pleading for patience a couple weeks ago are ready to pelt his porch with garbage and rotten fruit today.

Not that I blame them. We all have different breaking points. We all have different capacities for self deception.

Real men measure themselves by their capacity for self-deception. And it isn't "funny". It's a daily battle that few can overcome. I'm proud to say I'm a survivor.

Ace.

[That One Guy]

Just incase anyone was wondering, I went and looked at some stuff.

First, someone mentioned the weather as the reason for tonights issues. Plummer went 20/41 - 48% passing tonight and average completions were 10.5 yds. Frye on the other hand went 19/33 - 57% and averaged 7.8 yds per completion. So Frye averaged 9% better completion percentage for making passes 5 feet shorter. Given the defenses they were facing, I'd hardly say the conditions were holding QBs back out there.

Someone else said the running game wasn't producing this year as it had in the past. Well, our starter last year, MA, averaged 4.2 yds per carry while Tater averaged 5.3 yds. Since MA had substantially more carries than Tater, that means our average was somewhere below 4.7 ypc. This year, so far, Tater is averaging 4.7 yds per carry despite teams stacking against the run and forcing Jake to beat them. When you account for the focus of opposing D's being on the run as well as the successful ground game, that just wont fly as the scape goat.

And just for the sake of conversations, can anyone tell me the last time Jake had a WR that could do things that Javon has done so far this year. Javon alone has carried Jake and sometimes the whole team on his back. Rod is the consistent one but Jake didn't have the players when he was doing well that he has now, there's no reason for Jake to be playing as he is.

To me, this about dispells all the excuses that I've seen. Now, everyone, let's just enjoy the wins of the past as these next few weeks could be really painful.

[meangene]

I was happy we won today but there is NO WAY we beat either Indy or Pittsburgh with Jake at QB. Not going to happen. Then, we may see Cutler. At 5-3 the playoffs are still very much in sight. Stay with Jake at that point and there is NO WAY we make the playoffs.

People forget that Cutler started the last preseason game against Arizona's first team defense and played great football with a large number of second stingers around him. Cutler was the SEC player of the year on a horrible Vanderbilt team. It was basically him and a bunch of guys. He is not going to blink at the pressure of an 8 man front and has the arm to make teams pay. The way I see it just being able to open up the playbook because Cutler has the arm to make all the throws gives him a huge advantage. You don't think teams are crowding the line of scrimmage now and jumping the short routes because of Jake's limitations? At least Cutler makes teams defend the whole field. And, I'd rather start him at home against Indy's defense than on the road at Pitt. Too bad we'll not see him start either though he may finish one or both.

[BroncoSoja]

Originally Posted by Anubis

I just dont understand it. Why is Jake so hot and cold throughout a game? 6 games into the season and he cant stay consistent. Im baffled.

Im not 'baffled.. If you go back to November 13, 2005 Plummer has been playing bad every since that point and on. Thats why I laugh at people that try to say its the pressure of Culter or its all the new people on the Offense..That's also the reason why I laugh at people that say he had a Probowl year last year. Wrong he had a Probowl half season, the other half stunk it up. Which is why he was only a alternate.

Bottom line is while we might keep winning with him at QB(what else is new), we will not win when it counts with him as QB(what else is new).