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Old 10-17-2006, 05:40 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post

Perhaps this thread is misnamed, and really should be "Thread for people who will cover Jake's ass no matter how uninspiring he looks," since that's all this is really about.

Defending Jake Plummer for 5 uninspiring games and 3 consecutive playoff appearances vs defending Brian Griese for 4 seasons of mediocre to terrible play and 0 playoff appearances (No, TJ...that was Gus who took us to the playoffs in '00).

You sir, are the one legged man who decided to enter an ass kicking contest.
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:47 PM   #252
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2. I want us to win the SB.

3. This offense is not going to get it done vs teams like the Colts/Chargers and other competition in the playoffs.
So tell me...how many SB's have we won the last 7 seasons when our offense was one of the league's best and our defense laid an egg in the playoffs?

So are you trying to tell us that if we win the SB 13-3 you'd be pissed?
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:56 PM   #253
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Offense sells tickets, and the fans are getting restless. The whole dynamic changes if we added ten points to each offense. These results look better even though the margin of victory remains the same.

Rams 28, Broncos 20
Broncos 19, Chiefs 16
Broncos 27, Pats 17
Broncos 23, Ravens 13
Broncos 23, Raiders 13
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:58 PM   #254
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I'll admit it... I supported Griese. I wish Shanahan would have dumbed down the offense for him like he's doing for Plummer. We might have had much better luck then. .
Gee, I thought all we needed was a LT to protect him.

Now you're saying that we should have dumbed down the playbook for him as well?

Why would you need to dumb down the playbook for a guy who not only scored a 39 on the Wonderlic test, and in your infinite wisdom was the "NFL's most efficient QB when given protection, bar none"?
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:58 PM   #255
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So tell me...how many SB's have we won the last 7 seasons when our offense was one of the league's best and our defense laid an egg in the playoffs?

So are you trying to tell us that if we win the SB 13-3 you'd be pissed?
At least we had an offense, even with SOB compared to this crap. We have a fine defense, but not one that could go into the playoffs and expect to shut down a team to 3 points.

Your going to tell me the offense didn't lay an egg in these playoffs? Fine...Jake didn't fumble or throw a pick. I would trade one of either for a few TD passes.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:09 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post

There are two people you can blame: Mike Shanahan and Jake Plummer.

So why do you still believe in Mike?

Would you advocate his firing as rabid as you do Jake's?
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:12 PM   #257
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And Jake Plummer has lead the team the the fewest amount of touchdowns the Broncos have ever experienced in a 5 game stretch in the history of the Broncos, .
He's also led us to the playoffs 3 years in a row....only 2 other Bronco QB's can say that (Morton '77-'79 and Elway '96-'98), so what's your freaking point?
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:13 PM   #258
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Your going to tell me the offense didn't lay an egg in these playoffs? Fine...Jake didn't fumble or throw a pick. I would trade one of either for a few TD passes.

Well, the Indy games don't even count. Those defensive performances were so embarrassing, it's not even worth talking about. We're talking NFL first-half record bad.... i.e., worst in the history of the game, bad.

But, the Pittsburgh games could at BEST be called a total TEAM melt-down.

The question is, where you believe it started.

Our offense came out flat. Our defense allowed scores on every one of the first four drives. (3 of them TDs.)

Game over.

Conversely, against New England... our offense came out slow... but our defense played playoff-style football. They hung tough, and we got the offense rolling and put up some points... and miraculously, WON.

Pittsburgh (after smoking us) went to the Superbowl and had a horrific first half, offensively... worse than the start we had against them.

Yet, their D hung tough... and they won.

That is playoff football, folks. You don't dig yourself into 21 point holes and expect to win against top caliber teams. You MUST possess a defense that can hold a game tight when your O starts slow, because against the better defenses... it's LIKELY to happen.

This year, our D has played VERY tough in games where there hasn't been much offense. No surprise, we're winning.

There is a time-tested formula, and it STARTS with shutting down other teams. Those who think football games should have basketball scores and that 30 points half-time deficits are the responsibility of an OFFENSE are just simply not looking at the very clear blueprint for winning, which is traceable throughout the history of the game.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:22 PM   #259
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All of us would too DS49. But let's be realistic.

In fact, since you know about DS49, tell everyone what happened to the Broncos the last time they went to the Super Bowl with the leagues leading Scoring Defense?

I don't know why I waste my time on foolish threads like this. There is a real difference between "Bronco fan", and "Football Expert/Bronco Fan".
Really, so tell us what has leading the NFL in scoring done for us lately?
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:26 PM   #260
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For those who don't remember, the last time the Broncos went to the Super Bowl with the leagues leading scoring defense, the final score was 55-10.
Against arguably the NFL's best team all-time.

BTW, the last time the Broncos led the NFL in scoring they were beaten in a wildcard game 42-24 by the Raiders...so what's your point?
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:29 PM   #261
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It's no different than when we would win a game with Griese, despite how you want to paint it. It's just part of the package.
Yea, thing was... we rarely won with him. He was usually pouting on the sidelines or looking disinterested.

I rooted my ass off for Griese, even if I thought he was horrible.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:41 PM   #262
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Exactly. Funny how some of the guys who go to bat for Plummer were only to eager to burn Brian to the cross. I mean, aside from mobility there isnt much that seperates Brian from Jake honestly. One guy trips over his dog and another trips over his couch. The only difference is that Jake has benefited from a much better defense the last couple of years.
One has led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons, the other led us into the depths of mediocrity.

One could makes plays when the protection broke down, the other was a freaking statue who folded like a cheap lawn chair.

One has won 75% of his games as our starter and the other has won barely 50%

One has led the team, where as the other was just another mediocre player on it.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:45 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by errand View Post
One has led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons, the other led us into the depths of mediocrity.

One could makes plays when the protection broke down, the other was a freaking statue who folded like a cheap lawn chair.

One has won 75% of his games as our starter and the other has won barely 50%

One has led the team, where as the other was just another mediocre player on it.


One was a very young and inexperienced Qb while the other was a 8 year vet. The list could go on. And didnt i mention the mobility thing? Yea, i kinda think i did.

Last edited by Northman; 10-17-2006 at 06:48 PM..
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:49 PM   #264
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One was a very young and inexperienced Qb while the other was a 8 year vet. The list could go on.
I'm sure it could...but there are more positives on Jake's side than Brian's.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:51 PM   #265
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I'm sure it could...but there are more positives on Jake's side than Brian's.

Yea, he is mobile.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:39 PM   #266
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Yea, thing was... we rarely won with him. He was usually pouting on the sidelines or looking disinterested.

I rooted my ass off for Griese, even if I thought he was horrible.
Thats how I was. Griese was finished after that Raiders game, but it didn't stop me from liking him.

I just don't understand. We scored points last year and not one person here thought that Mike let Plummer do anything. Why then all of the sudden did Mike make the rope around Plummers neck shorter? Is it Kubes? I can tell you I've seen way more three TE sets this year then last year. I also know that everyone loves Kircus but he sure isn't my idle third WR either.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:47 PM   #267
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Against arguably the NFL's best team all-time.

BTW, the last time the Broncos led the NFL in scoring they were beaten in a wildcard game 42-24 by the Raiders...so what's your point?
Errand, of course I'd be thrilled if we won the superbowl 2-0.

I just don't see us winning 3 straight over playoff competition unless the offense dramatically improves.

BTW - we had a great offense in 98 and the defense was less than great in the Super Bowl, but we won the SB over the Packers anyway.

Obviously we need to be better on offense, because you can't rely upon a statiscally great defense in pts against, because eventually the defense will give up points. Last year we had a dominating defense, 4th in scoring I believe, and you saw what happened.

Also, we have forced 4 turnovers in the redzone in 3 tight games. You can't count on that vs better competition than Andy Walter, Steve McNair, and two forced fumbles.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:52 PM   #268
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One has led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons, the other led us into the depths of mediocrity.

One could makes plays when the protection broke down, the other was a freaking statue who folded like a cheap lawn chair.

One has won 75% of his games as our starter and the other has won barely 50%

One has led the team, where as the other was just another mediocre player on it.
Yea, but... he said it, so it's true. (Orange Mane rule.)

On an unrelated note, the moon is made of green cheese. Just thought you should know.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:13 PM   #269
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(No, TJ...that was Gus who took us to the playoffs in '00).

.
Really? I wasn't aware you could get into the playoffs by winning 4 games.

I guess that means Andrew Walter and the Raiders may get into the dance this year.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:16 PM   #270
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Thats how I was. Griese was finished after that Raiders game, but it didn't stop me from liking him.

I just don't understand. We scored points last year and not one person here thought that Mike let Plummer do anything. Why then all of the sudden did Mike make the rope around Plummers neck shorter? Is it Kubes? I can tell you I've seen way more three TE sets this year then last year. I also know that everyone loves Kircus but he sure isn't my idle third WR either.
The thing is, everyone just assumes Jake is afraid of Cutler so he's playing bad. I mean, it could be. Of course, there's no way to prove that..... so who knows.

More technical-minded fans would look into having a new O.C. as a potential problem. That doesn't mean Jake isn't struggling, because he is. But, something doesn't look right.

We just don't seem to see guys getting open like we did last year. Walker does a great job, but Rod's looked rather covered... as much as I love him.
Sheffler doesn't seem to be getting open, and when he does... either Jake isn't hitting him where he should, or he looks like he's fighting the ball.
(He really looks nervous out there, which surprises me... he looked extremely confident in the pre-season, given... it's pre-season. )

The running game is solid. But, I don't know. Something just doesn't look right...beyond Jake making some bad throws. We just seem to be seeing a lot of situations where Jake looks down a couple of covered receivers and dumps the ball off or throws it away. I realize we're telling him to be careful with the ball, but we told him that last year, too.

I do know that QBs almost always struggle a bit under new OCs. People just might have to have some patience with this, and Shanahan might have to step in a bit more than he has had to in the past.
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Old 10-18-2006, 02:53 AM   #271
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Yea, but... he said it, so it's true. (Orange Mane rule.)

On an unrelated note, the moon is made of green cheese. Just thought you should know.


I love cheese, just not green.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:11 AM   #272
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The title of this thread is so pathetic that I laugh harder everytime I read it.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:43 AM   #273
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I felt gross after the Raiders game. It was the worst I've ever felt after a win - especially a Raider win.
You obviously didn't enjoy winning the last game, but you sure enjoy reading this thread title, so here's another bump.
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Old 10-18-2006, 12:20 PM   #274
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With good reason.

Whereas we (in my opinion) are winning games despite not being up to our full sprint, yet. Honestly, we're 4-1 and not playing as good as I think we can... and will. That's some fairly exciting stuff, to me. I know it's not real fashionable around here to be optimistic... but I'm going to go ahead and buck the rules on that one.
....and thats an EXTREMELY important thing to think about.

we are not even close to playing our best offensively, we have every reason (based on the track record of jake and more importantly shanahan) to think that the offense will improve (and probably drastically), and despite that we're STILL WINNING.

its VERY good reason for optimism.

sure, the glass could be half empty and we could predict an entire season of doom and gloom for plummer and co., but of course there would be no history whatsoever to lend credence to that negative viewpoint.

yes, the offensive struggles have been frustrating, but the future looks so bright i gotta
patience.

jake
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Old 10-18-2006, 01:01 PM   #275
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Because TJ, we wouldn't be winning close games with Cutler.

He'd be prone to make a rookie mistake. Nailbiter games like the ones we've been playing require your QB to calm, cool and confident....and that the team respects him.

Just look at it this way....we're winning games and Jake and the O haven't even began to get untracked. Imagine how well they'll do once they do.

I can remember a few seasons ago when 8-8 was all we had to look forward too...once again we have some on here who think 4-1 with an anemic O is worse than 8-8 with an O led by the NFL's most efficient QB bar none when given protection.
great post.

its amazing to me that SO MANY people here (and around town) dont see it, because it seems obvious to me.

if this offense gets on track (and history tells us they will) and shanahan opens things up, we have a chance to be a very special team.
people should be excited, not full of fear.
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