Nuclear NK

[cbs1177]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html

NK test changes everything. Japan now will now be a full fledge military now along with China and the arms race begins.

[DBruleU]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218699,00.html



SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea said Monday it has performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test. The country's official Korean Central News Agency said the test was performed successfully and that there had been no radioactive leakage from the site.

"The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to the our military and people," KCNA said. "The nuclear test will contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the Korean peninsula and surrounding region."

South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun has convened a meeting of security advisers over the issue, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported, adding that intelligence over the test has been exchanged between concerned countries.

The North said last week it would conduct a test, sparking regional concern and frantic diplomatic efforts aimed at dissuading Pyongyang from such a move. North Korea has long claimed to have nuclear weapons, but had never before performed a known test to prove its arsenal.


The nuclear test was conducted at 10:36 a.m. (0136 GMT) in Hwaderi near Kilju city, Yonhap reported, citing defense officials.

The North has refused for a year to attend international talks aimed at persuading it to disarm. The country pulled out of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 2003 after U.S. officials accused it of a secret nuclear program, allegedly violating an earlier nuclear pact between Washington and Pyongyang.

Speculation over a possible North Korean test arose earlier this year after U.S. and Japanese reports cited suspicious activity at a suspected underground test site.

[spdirty]

****

[spdirty]

god I dont want to go to war with those fu(kers

[spdirty]

3.58 on the scale

[epicSocialism4tw]

Man, is this ever scary.

[cbs1177]

I see NK scary then Iran b/c NK has freaking nothing to lose. At least Iran has the oil to fall back on NK with the fourth largest military in the world has nothing to gain or lose and that is a scary position for us: an animal backed in to a corner.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by cbs1177

I see NK scary then Iran b/c NK has freaking nothing to lose. At least Iran has the oil to fall back on NK with the fourth largest military in the world has nothing to gain or lose and that is a scary position for us: an animal backed in to a corner.

yep. Im scared to death with this crazy bastard. Their army and sof forces are soooo friggin committed. God I hope China is actually against this.

Japan needs to arm up too.

[ant1999e]

I guess U.N. diplomacy didn't work.

[yavoon]

this is somewhat bad for us(but honestly, it as gna happen, and we had no real plans to stop it). who this is REALLY bad for is the north korean ppl. how do they reunify and thusly get access to prosperity and wealth when their oppressors now have nukes?

its a sad day for the future of north koreans.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by yavoon

its a sad day for the future of north koreans.

every day is a sad day for north koreans

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by spdirty

every day is a sad day for north koreans

yah, I really feel bad. we were in the korean war. imagine how many ppl would be living better lives now if we had just been more successful?

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by yavoon

yah, I really feel bad. we were in the korean war. imagine how many ppl would be living better lives now if we had just been more successful?

Yeah thats what i was thinking earlier. Had we just done what MacArthur wanted to do none of this shlt would be going on now.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Yeah thats what i was thinking earlier. Had we just done what MacArthur wanted to do none of this shlt would be going on now.

oh, is that so? MacArthur wanted to nuke China. How would the world be any better today if he had prevailed over Truman and done that? It would be much worse!

The world is a mess, I agree, but nukes have never been the answer -- not in WW II, not in the Korean War, and not now.

The US today is setting the worst kind of example -- blatantly violating our own non proliferation treaty by pursuing the most sweeping modernization of our nuclear force structure since the Cold War. We are in no position to preach to anyone --

It's time to recognize that the only leadership worth following is positive example. We must state loud and clear that these horrible weapons have no reason to exist -- since they cannot be used. They are weapons suitable for gods -- not men. We must get back on the moral high road -- open US nuclear sites to IAEA inspectors and begin the build down to eliminate all nukes. When the world sees that we are serious we will once again be admired -- instead of feared and hated. We must also press Israel to sign the NPT, open its sites to the IAEA, and begin direct talks with Iran and other Mideast states toward the creation of a nuclear weapons free zone in the region.

If the US sets the proper example people everywhere will follow us. But it won't happen with a lunatic prez who brandises nukes like a divine right.

The place to begin is to throw out all of Congress in the upcoming elections. All but around 10-15 Democrats voted for the war. We must also impeach Bush.

Like Jefferson said -- a revolution every 20 years.

[mhgaffney]

I should add -- if the American people fail to rise to the occasion of this grave crisis -- we will deserve whatever horrible future awaits us.

[cbs1177]

Nk said it would be a responsible Nuclear power just like India and Pakastian according to CnnPipeline. They feel the US really fears selling of nuclear weapons on black market and not so much as the country itself having of nuclear weapons. So NK thinks we are bogged down in Afghan and Iraq so military strike is not an option at this time only rhectic. Nk feels as long as it doesn't sell Nuclear material to rogue nations they are safe. china will support it to the end b/c a destablized NK is worse then a nuclear state.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by cbs1177

Nk said it would be a responsible Nuclear power just like India and Pakastian according to CnnPipeline. They feel the US really fears selling of nuclear weapons on black market and not so much as the country itself having of nuclear weapons. So NK thinks we are bogged down in Afghan and Iraq so military strike is not an option at this time only rhectic. Nk feels as long as it doesn't sell Nuclear material to rogue nations they are safe. china will support it to the end b/c a destablized NK is worse then a nuclear state.

yah NK definitely wants to set itself up where u can't deny it aid. so the ppl in power get to stay in power, and the horrid conditions for north koreans get to continue.

[cbs1177]

Originally Posted by yavoon

yah NK definitely wants to set itself up where u can't deny it aid. so the ppl in power get to stay in power, and the horrid conditions for north koreans get to continue.

Basically any more sanctions would only hurt the citizens of Nk not the regime but China and Japan doesn't want to destablize the Nk for fear of spread nuclear materials to rogue military leaders. But if Nk is allowed Nuclear weapons then South Korea then would resume its nuclear program that was on pause since the 70's, Japan would want a bomb which sits on 10 tons of of bomb making material and then China would also since India, Pataskian and now NK. So Iran is watching to see how we respond to this episode to see how to continue with their program. Seimsic acitivity has been recorded. So now it is a more dangerous place with an arms race in Asia.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by cbs1177

Basically any more sanctions would only hurt the citizens of Nk not the regime but China and Japan doesn't want to destablize the Nk for fear of spread nuclear materials to rogue military leaders. But if Nk is allowed Nuclear weapons then South Korea then would resume its nuclear program that was on pause since the 70's, Japan would want a bomb which sits on 10 tons of of bomb making material and then China would also since India, Pataskian and now NK. So Iran is watching to see how we respond to this episode to see how to continue with their program. Seimsic acitivity has been recorded. So now it is a more dangerous place with an arms race in Asia.

in a real sense, the nuclear genie is out of the bottle. I remember reading a report where two physics PHD students developed a bomb in like 3 years(as part of a gov't program) as proof that anyone with public knowledge could design a nuke.

their conclusion was something like:
"while it requires advanced formulations, the development of a nuclear weapon is a straightforward technical problem that can be accomplished as long as u have the prerequisite physics knowledge."

and while iran will certainly look at this, iran is gna get a nuke no matter what we do about NK.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by yavoon

in a real sense, the nuclear genie is out of the bottle. I remember reading a report where two physics PHD students developed a bomb in like 3 years(as part of a gov't program) as proof that anyone with public knowledge could design a nuke.

their conclusion was something like:
"while it requires advanced formulations, the development of a nuclear weapon is a straightforward technical problem that can be accomplished as long as u have the prerequisite physics knowledge."

and while iran will certainly look at this, iran is gna get a nuke no matter what we do about NK.

The biggest hurdle is not the design but acquiring the fissile material -- either highly enriched uranium or plutonium.

[cbs1177]

A twist the new UN head of state is/was supposed to come from South Korea, Ban Ki-moon. He was the leading candiate. Did this play a part of the test date. There was N.Koreans crossing the nonmilitary zone just days ago.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

The biggest hurdle is not the design but acquiring the fissile material -- either highly enriched uranium or plutonium.

designing a refinery is just as easy as designing the nuke(not that easy, but not difficult). the reason "acquiring it" is harder is because it takes much more infrastructure, or conversely stealing some.

but any country that could operate inside its sovereign borders shouldn't have any problem w/ either(unless they had no way to buy uranium).

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by cbs1177

A twist the new UN head of state is/was supposed to come from South Korea, Ban Ki-moon. He was the leading candiate. Did this play a part of the test date. There was N.Koreans crossing the nonmilitary zone just days ago.

meh doubt it. Though the proliferation this will cause is certainly going to be interesting.

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Yeah thats what i was thinking earlier. Had we just done what MacArthur wanted to do none of this shlt would be going on now.

You mean the Nuke China stuff he wanted to do....?

Yeah, that would really have prevented a lot..we would have already had the nuclear war and screwed everything up so bad that none of this would have happened. Sorry, but the Russians would have hit us back with nukes (which they already had in 48) and it probably would have kept spreading out of Asia.

It also would have been the second time the US used nuclear weapons in a war, and wouldn't have gained us any browny points in the court of world opinion,or the history books that might still be written. The only good thing to say about it, is that the weapons of the time were relatively low yield and the immediate destruction would have been somewhat limited. Of course the long term radiologic effects of even a limited exchange would have been pretty horrific. Say 100 Chernobles. It would have led to an awful lot of people getting their visit to the pearly gates earlier than expected. Those left behind would have damned the U.S. for all eternity. But , hey, we wouldn't have this problem.

NK having Nukes is something we have to deal with in a calm manner.
We don't want to agitate Kim Jong Il .....all he wants is a little attention and a few billion in "aid packages". Hell, send him a few thousand copies of Team America, World Police and tell him we shot all the producers and directors. And since we don't have the military resources to do anything about it right now, we should just take a deep breath.

It IS a sad day for the NK people , and the rest of world also.

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by cbs1177

Basically any more sanctions would only hurt the citizens of Nk not the regime but China and Japan doesn't want to destablize the Nk for fear of spread nuclear materials to rogue military leaders. But if Nk is allowed Nuclear weapons then South Korea then would resume its nuclear program that was on pause since the 70's, Japan would want a bomb which sits on 10 tons of of bomb making material and then China would also since India, Pataskian and now NK. So Iran is watching to see how we respond to this episode to see how to continue with their program. Seimsic acitivity has been recorded. So now it is a more dangerous place with an arms race in Asia.

China has been nuclear for 20 or more years ...maybe 600-1000 warheads.

Japan would have to violate their own constitution, which bans Nukes...but they probably will with a crazed NK with Nukes...So assume Japan just got their economy to switch a big percentage to a large and active defense/offensive force, instead of a small defense. The weapons systems that the Japanese can come up with in the next 20 years is going to play hell with OUR arms sales. They have always been VERY good at whatever they set their minds to. A large Japanese MI complex is about to emerge.