Even False things are true

[alkemical]

Ok i have an idea for this thread - and if it works it works -

I've made the point about 9/11 and of course with other things - that we are all locked into argument from & of authority.

I'd like to present a few articles that can show how the media can be used one way or the other to manipulate what's going on.


I have this theory that if nothing is true (which it seems that way with how things are/have been really shifting) - then everything is permissible.


On that note - i have an interesting story i am going to post (and you are welcome as well - maybe we can find out what's really going on in some ways)-

So i'm going to post an article that is written in a conspiracy nature - but i want you to digest it and follow some of the leads/links and see if you see what alex jones sees. I'm not going to argue that i think alex jones is a master at guerilla marketing - but it's for you to find out how it's used and see if you can identify it in other mainstream press/authority you may have used.

This maybe a bit ambitious - but i'm really trying to do something here and your participation will help me with a book i'm writing.

Thanks much!

Clavicula-solomonis -

[alkemical]

http://infowars.net/articles/October...06Rumsfeld.htm

Al Qaeda Tapes: Direct Link To Military Psyops And Donald Rumsfeld


Following the trail for five minutes leads to Pentagon

Steve Watson | October 5 2006

Related: Surprise Surprise, It's Another Al Qaeda Blockbuster Release

Related: Atta's Father Says Video Fake, Credibility of 'Hijackers Tape' Crumbles

U.S. Government Caught Red-Handed Releasing Staged Al-Qaeda Videos

Following on from our three features on the latest dubious Al Qaeda video, We can reveal that further investigation into the origin of Al Qaeda video and tape release leads straight back to US military intelligence and Donald Rumsfeld.

The origin of the latest video, starring Mohammed Atta and flight 93 hijacker Ziad Jarrah, has been swept under the carpet by the mainstream media who bizarrely admit that the government has had the tape since late 2001 but still suggest it is a new release by Al Qaeda.

Interesting also is the fact that in an NBC article, they admit that before receiving the "exclusive US analysis" of the London Sunday Times' tape, they had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the same tape of Atta earlier this year:

"The Sunday Times said it had obtained the video “through a previously tested channel” but gave no further details. NBC News filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the videotapes early this year, but the Pentagon has not yet turned them over. "

This is an open admission that it is the Pentagon that has released this tape and not Al Qaeda. this dovetails with our previous analysis that revealed that the footage has been seen before in a docudrama, the Road to Guantanamo, where it is shown to detainees at camp Delta as an intelligence surveillance tape.

Along with experts on Islamic terrorist groups who are baffled by the video and have declared that it has come from a security agency, the very journalist who received the tape also says the source was not Al Qaeda.

It is also interesting that this journalist, Yousri Fouda is not only a Sunday Times journalist but also the London Bureau Chief of Al Jazeera. He is the guy who normally breaks all the Al Qaeda tapes anyway, so really the London Times connection is just a smokescreen.

All evidence indicates that the tapes are provided to Fouda and Al Jazeera by As Sahab, the "production company" of Al Qaeda, via a group known as Intelcenter, who also SELL the videos online.


Intelcenter normally have the tapes available for sale as soon as they are released, indeed in the past they have even predicted when they are going to get a tape before it is released, as they did with the second London bomber tape on the anniversary of 7/7.

Intel center is run by Ben Venzke, who is an interesting character. A google search results in the revelation that he used to be the director of intelligence at a company called IDEFENSE, which is a verisign company. IDEFENSE is a web security company that monitors intelligence from the middle east conflicts and focuses on cyber threats among other things.

It is also heavily populated with long serving ex military intelligence officials.

The Director of Threat intelligence, Jim Melnick, served 16 years in the US army and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and worked in psychological operations. From the IDEFENSE website:

Prior to joining iDefense, Mr. Melnick served with distinction for more than 16 years in the U.S. Army and the Defense Intelligence Agency. During this period, Mr. Melnick served in a variety of roles, including psychological operations, international warning issues with emphasis on foreign affairs and information operations and Russian affairs. He also served in active political/military intelligence roles with an emphasis on foreign affairs. Mr. Melnick is currently a U.S. Army Reserve Colonel with Military Intelligence, assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Mr. Melnick has been published in numerous military and foreign affairs journals, and has received numerous military and DIA awards. Mr. Melnick has a Master of Arts in National Security and Strategic Studies from the U.S. Naval War College, a Master of Arts in Russian studies from Harvard University, and a Bachelor of Arts with Honors in Political Science from Westminster College.

So here we have a company that by it's own admission has a senior military psy-op intelligence officer who has worked directly for Donald Rumsfeld. As Intelcenter and Ben Venzke are directly connected to IDEFENSE, this puts Rumsfeld 3 small steps away from the Al Qaeda propaganda videos.

The NBC "US analysis" should be the focus of the latest tape and not the Times articles. It is an astounding piece of psyop propaganda that attempts in a shoddy way to fill in the "gaps" in 9/11 intelligence. The analyst, Evan Coleman, after admitting that the Pentagon has been "sitting on it" goes on to say:

"It is important for people to watch and realize that this video is conclusive proof that 9/11 was orchestrated by Al Qaeda at the most senior levels."

He then makes a direct assault on the 9/11 truth movement by saying:

"This is the kind of video proof that is going to put a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists out in the cold and for good reason."

Coleman contradicts himself throughout his own report by saying the Pentagon has had the video since 2001 whilst still towing the line that it was Al Qaeda that released the video.

The U.S. government's role in obtaining and carefully stage-managing the dissemination of these tapes, many of them old footage re-released over and over again, is now without a doubt manifestly obvious and demands immediate Congressional investigation. Please spread this information wide and help us expose the most duplicitous and manipulative administration in history, a regime that is engaging in psychological warfare against the American people.

[alkemical]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

The Israeli Spy Ring

ALL LINKS TO CARL CAMERON'S FOX NEWS STORY ON THE ISRAELI SPY RING HAVE BEEN REMOVED AT THE EXPRESS REQUEST OF FOX NEWS.



"What Israel has done in return was to set up government subsidized telecommunications companies which operate here in the United States. One of these companies is Amdocs, which provides billing and directory assistance for 90% of the phone companies in the USA. Amdocs' main computer center for billing is actually in Israel and allows those with access to do what intelligence agencies call "traffic analysis"; a picture of someone's activities based on a pattern of who they are calling and when. Another Israeli telecom company is Comverse Infosys, which subcontracts the installation of the automatic tapping equipment now built into every phone system in America. Comverse maintains its own connections to all this phone tapping equipment, insisting that it is for maintenance purposes only. However, Converse has been named as the most likely source for leaked information regarding telephone calls by law enforcement that derailed several investigations into not only espionage, but drug running as well."


http://allafrica.com/stories/printab...610040008.html

U.S. Fugitive Pays Record N$10 Million Bail

Alexander, who was born in Israel but has been living and working in New York for about 20 years, was until May this year the Chief Executive Officer of Comverse Technology Inc, a Nasdaq-listed company that he helped found and steered to become a leading maker of telecommunications software.

While he was in charge of the company, though, the US authorities charge, he became involved in an allegedly fraudulent scheme in which he helped manipulate the sale of shares in the company in order to pocket extra earnings of tens of millions of US dollars.

[Hotrod]

Ok I read all that now what was I supposed to do now?

Is the point that sometimes the media is used as a tool for powers that be Then I already subscribe to that idea.

If its to prove anything can be twisted to fit what the writter/agency/company/etc. wants I again already believe it.

[alkemical]

It's not if you believe it hotrod -


But how can we.... change it? In some way the blogs have started a trend - but it's still just as 'murkey' how can we 'define' truth?

[Hotrod]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

It's not if you believe it hotrod -


But how can we.... change it? In some way the blogs have started a trend - but it's still just as 'murkey' how can we 'define' truth?

Got it.

Im not sure we can do a damn thing about it anymore. Too much power/money involved. We only get to hear/see/read what they want us to. Then small time websites/publications are discredited as cooks/whack jobs etc. The little guy has no chance if hes right or not to be really heard.

[DBruleU]

I think you have waaaay too much time on your hands Clavicul.

[bendog]

hmm, I thought the thread was a little different. Yeah blogs can make false things true, and fox can lie have a picture saying Foley's a dem, and bushii can mention saddam and 9-11 in one sentence one million times, or claim that Iraq's 'making progress.'

I was thinking of schizophrenia, or the guy who shot the amish girls. Brian Wilson took so many psychotropics under Eugene Landy trying to quite his voices that he's got neruological damage. Now he still has the voices, but only takes a low dose of anti-depressants or something. The voices ARE real. I've talked with several people with voices over the years, and they're real to them. The trick seems to be finding someone you trust who can tell you what they can hear too, and trusting only what they hear to base your actions upon. The voices are part of the person, but the person cannot believe the voices.

The guy who shot the amish apparantly was a serial molester as a child. I had a couple of them as clients, and I slept with my nine for several years afterwards. Apparantly, he managed his demon until his youngest child died, and then he wrote he was just so filled with hate towards himself and God, he decided to go out and torture and kill the most innocent humans he could find. I don't think God hates back. If this guy was trying to hurt God, I think he missed. He hurt the families, and I think he probably just destroyed the only thing that ever mattered to him, his two living kids. His hatred was real, no doubt, but channelling it he badly miscalculated, but his effect on the families and his own are very real.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Hotrod

Got it.

Im not sure we can do a damn thing about it anymore. Too much power/money involved. We only get to hear/see/read what they want us to. Then small time websites/publications are discredited as cooks/whack jobs etc. The little guy has no chance if hes right or not to be really heard.

Well this is where it gets into 'reality selection' that i know alot of you have heard me hash out here.

But when it comes to the point that you have a 'source' that 'rings true' to you, it's not false - what is false is the opposite that 'discredits your side'.

So alex jones (whom i find entertaining - and i think he's part right, but gets it wrong at the same time) - is no different than say... fox (which you've outline hotrod) - is chaos the real end result of this?

If chaos is the end result, is it a bad thing? Is it bad to have a liquid reality where 'everything is true, even false things'? Or is it only dangerous when people buy into ideology and try to make reality conform to that to shape their reality maps?

Example:

the 911 debate rages on and probably will forever....

I think it's Beerslug is an avid 911 debunker - i don't think he's wrong on alot of information - but i can find as source material to sink his 'debunkal ship' - as can he.

So where do we find the middle ground on what is 'real' and what we are having fed to us to 'make real'?

I understand this is hard to grasp - but this is my first real attempt at trying to convey a much bigger picture - i'm just using media examples (since we can all relate to them) to try to illustrate and see what i can learn from "you".

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

I think you have waaaay too much time on your hands Clavicul.

it's clavicula


Think about it this way. An ant through it's compulsion to build and tunnel does a 'job' that is needed in the world - as do i.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by bendog

hmm, I thought the thread was a little different. Yeah blogs can make false things true, and fox can lie have a picture saying Foley's a dem, and bushii can mention saddam and 9-11 in one sentence one million times, or claim that Iraq's 'making progress.'

I was thinking of schizophrenia, or the guy who shot the amish girls. Brian Wilson took so many psychotropics under Eugene Landy trying to quite his voices that he's got neruological damage. Now he still has the voices, but only takes a low dose of anti-depressants or something. The voices ARE real. I've talked with several people with voices over the years, and they're real to them. The trick seems to be finding someone you trust who can tell you what they can hear too, and trusting only what they hear to base your actions upon. The voices are part of the person, but the person cannot believe the voices.

The guy who shot the amish apparantly was a serial molester as a child. I had a couple of them as clients, and I slept with my nine for several years afterwards. Apparantly, he managed his demon until his youngest child died, and then he wrote he was just so filled with hate towards himself and God, he decided to go out and torture and kill the most innocent humans he could find. I don't think God hates back. If this guy was trying to hurt God, I think he missed. He hurt the families, and I think he probably just destroyed the only thing that ever mattered to him, his two living kids. His hatred was real, no doubt, but channelling it he badly miscalculated, but his effect on the families and his own are very real.

Bendog,

This is one thing i'm going to - or looking at - i literally made myself crazy for the better part of 20yrs -

But i agree - when it's real to you - and it really makes the foundation of your world in which you act/react - where do the lines begin to blur?

[Hotrod]

time out my head hurts

[alkemical]

Hotrod,

I don't expect this thread to stay on pg1 for very long.

But it's an excersise in something - and i just wanted to see if i can use a common demoninator to see if i can find out how something works.

I also wanted to see who'd be receptive to this thread -


Besides - who else here would start a thread like this?

[bendog]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Bendog,

This is one thing i'm going to - or looking at - i literally made myself crazy for the better part of 20yrs -

But i agree - when it's real to you - and it really makes the foundation of your world in which you act/react - where do the lines begin to blur?

It's sort of like metaphysics. What's real? My post wasn't really a hijack. From my view, I can't do a damn thing about stuff like Fox news outright lies, or bloggers who keep pushing things that are supposedly proven false - like the put orders. All I can do is try to limit their effect on me. (maybe I'll go back to secondary or middle school teaching in 10 years, I dunno.)

really, the foley story is just about the corrupt gop leadership trying to hide this. The real story is much bigger. The gop leadership has sold congress to the lobbyists like it did in the 1890s. Some queen finding 17yr olds to get off with is hardly new in Washington. I won't vote for the gop, but who cares? I do what I want, and it doesn't make a difference to anyone but me and maybe my family.

The puts. the 9-11 Commission said, as I recall, that all the puts were accounted for, even one from saudi arabia which couldn't have possibly been related. . Despite what Wags will say, the reality of finding insider trading is on volume by insiders. It's IMPOSSIBLE to really test what someone knew. Martha Stewart was just the poster boy. It's like the govt got one case that it was so obvious, and most of us lawyers couldn't believe they'd try the piddly ass thing compared to the massive rip offs going on inside. But, it doesn't really matter if some Saudi made money. We had bin laden and the taliban, but let em slip away. I can't do anything about that. I'll vote dem, but Miss will go gop. I hope he screws up with a timer and offs himself cause god knows bushii can't get him.

It's sort of like Brian Wilson. He's got a place where he wants to go. Make music. He's got the huge ego, which has limited him with getting everyone on board, but it's probably necessary. His voices are, and really always were, part of his muse. It just took him like 30 years for them not to scare the crap out of him. He didn't have to beat his kids like his dad did. Of course, the anti-depressents today are a lot better than just vodka. (not that I'm not gonna self-medicate myself in a couple of hours, and I know I'd be better off not to.) Wilson finally managed to marry someone who he trusts to tell him what's real just to him.

The guy who killed the amish girls seems, imo, to have lost track of where he was heading. I guess he didn't have anyone.

But in general there's just billions of wierd time/space stuff whizzing by .... I just try to remember who I am.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by bendog

It's sort of like metaphysics. What's real? My post wasn't really a hijack. From my view, I can't do a damn thing about stuff like Fox news outright lies, or bloggers who keep pushing things that are supposedly proven false - like the put orders. All I can do is try to limit their effect on me. (maybe I'll go back to secondary or middle school teaching in 10 years, I dunno.)

really, the foley story is just about the corrupt gop leadership trying to hide this. The real story is much bigger. The gop leadership has sold congress to the lobbyists like it did in the 1890s. Some queen finding 17yr olds to get off with is hardly new in Washington. I won't vote for the gop, but who cares? I do what I want, and it doesn't make a difference to anyone but me and maybe my family.

The puts. the 9-11 Commission said, as I recall, that all the puts were accounted for, even one from saudi arabia which couldn't have possibly been related. . Despite what Wags will say, the reality of finding insider trading is on volume by insiders. It's IMPOSSIBLE to really test what someone knew. Martha Stewart was just the poster boy. It's like the govt got one case that it was so obvious, and most of us lawyers couldn't believe they'd try the piddly ass thing compared to the massive rip offs going on inside. But, it doesn't really matter if some Saudi made money. We had bin laden and the taliban, but let em slip away. I can't do anything about that. I'll vote dem, but Miss will go gop. I hope he screws up with a timer and offs himself cause god knows bushii can't get him.

It's sort of like Brian Wilson. He's got a place where he wants to go. Make music. He's got the huge ego, which has limited him with getting everyone on board, but it's probably necessary. His voices are, and really always were, part of his muse. It just took him like 30 years for them not to scare the crap out of him. He didn't have to beat his kids like his dad did. Of course, the anti-depressents today are a lot better than just vodka. (not that I'm not gonna self-medicate myself in a couple of hours, and I know I'd be better off not to.) Wilson finally managed to marry someone who he trusts to tell him what's real just to him.

The guy who killed the amish girls seems, imo, to have lost track of where he was heading. I guess he didn't have anyone.

But in general there's just billions of wierd time/space stuff whizzing by .... I just try to remember who I am.

No bendog, your post was not a hijack. Instead in someways you gave me what i was looking for.

Often times it's why i feel so isolated is because i had to find that it was 'me' who i had to trust on what is and isn't real. unfortunatley my ego wants to kill me. I could blame it on the devil, but he seems to have an uncanny resemblance to myself.


It took me 27 years to finally figure out who i am. I'm nuts, i'm crazy - i have mood swings at times (way better now) - and a bit of paranioa. I just need a hot bass playing chica who likes magic hat beer and will let me 'freak out' - only to realize it's more aiken to a 2yr old's tantrum. After a nap and some 'medication' - i'm back to normal.

But hey - it's because of those dark feelings that i'm able to be an awesome "jam" drummer - (i play what i feel, not what i think needs played).


I don't care about the Senators in Rome/DC - because i can't change it through any other action than making the world around me better. Who knows - maybe my book when it's finished will help start a ripple.....

PS - what's your fav. hooch? If i could i'd love to buy you a case of magic hat beer - ya know - for helping out a bum one time

[baja]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12003&q=9%2F11

[alkemical]

have to wait to see it @ home..... will look at it baja

[bendog]

I can't believe I'm still at work with no vodka. I need my meds. (_: