IDF commander: We fired a million cluster bombs into Lebanon

[mhgaffney]

This story from Ha'aretz reveals that previous reports seriously underestimated Israel’s use of cluster bombs in the recent Lebanon war. Israel’s use of these weapons to mine southern Lebanon in the hours before the cease fire was obviously a calculated attempt to make the region uninhabitable -- hence was a form of ethnic cleansing. MG

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

Last update - 14:20 12/09/2006

IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon
By Meron Rappaport

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.


The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.

MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.

The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.

The cluster rounds which don't detonate on impact, believed by the United Nations to be around 40% of those fired by the IDF in Lebanon, remain on the ground as unexploded munitions, effectively littering the landscape with thousands of land mines which will continue to claim victims long after the war has ended.

Because of their high level of failure to detonate, it is believed that there are around 500,000 unexploded munitions on the ground in Lebanon. To date 12 Lebanese civilians have been killed by these mines since the end of the war.

According to the commander, in order to compensate for the inaccuracy of the rockets and the inability to strike individual targets precisely, units would "flood" the battlefield with munitions, accounting for the littered and explosive landscape of post-war Lebanon.

When his reserve duty came to a close, the commander in question sent a letter to Defense Minister Amir Peretz outlining the use of cluster munitions, a letter which has remained unanswered.

'Excessive injury and unnecessary suffering'

It has come to light that IDF soldiers fired phosphorous rounds in order to cause fires in Lebanon. An artillery commander has admitted to seeing trucks loaded with phosphorous rounds on their way to artillery crews in the north of Israel.

A direct hit from a phosphorous shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death.

International law forbids the use of weapons that cause "excessive injury and unnecessary suffering", and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorous rounds fall directly in that category.

The International Red Cross has determined that international law forbids the use of phosphorous and other types of flammable rounds against personnel, both civilian and military.

IDF: No violation of international law
In response, the IDF Spokesman's Office stated that "International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.

"For understandable operational reasons, the IDF does not respond to [accounts of] details of weaponry in its possession.

"The IDF makes use only of methods and weaponry which are permissible under international law. Artillery fire in general, including MLRS fire, were used in response solely to firing on the state of Israel."

The Defense Minister's office said it had not received messages regarding cluster bomb fire.

[W*GS]

No comment on Amnesty International saying that Hezbollah committed war crimes, MG?

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by W*GS

No comment on Amnesty International saying that Hezbollah committed war crimes, MG?

The Jewpublican to the rescue!! Hey Libby, why don't you call Dubya and see if you can pay extra taxes so that he can send them poor Jews even more cluster bombs. You know so that they can defend themselves.

[W*GS]

Give it up, Boy Wonder - all you accomplish is making yourself look even more stupid, hard to believe as that is.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Give it up, Boy Wonder - all you accomplish is making yourself look even more stupid, hard to believe as that is.

Translation= I'm not clever enough for a rebuttal.

[W*GS]

The only "butt" on this thread is you, Boy Wonder.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

The Jewpublican to the rescue!! Hey Libby, why don't you call Dubya and see if you can pay extra taxes so that he can send them poor Jews even more cluster bombs. You know so that they can defend themselves.

You'll never hear W*GS complain about that kind of taxation.

[Atlas]

The cluster bombs are f#$%ing nasty. 20% of them don't even go off and remain live ammunition laying on the ground, waiting to be stepped on. I know in Iraq they were all over the place but they were worth money so you had little kids walking around looking for them. Everyday some kid was getting killed or maimed because he/she picked one up.

[SteveTensi13]

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

[SteveTensi13]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

This story from Ha'aretz reveals that previous reports seriously underestimated Israel’s use of cluster bombs in the recent Lebanon war. Israel’s use of these weapons to mine southern Lebanon in the hours before the cease fire was obviously a calculated attempt to make the region uninhabitable -- hence was a form of ethnic cleansing. MG

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

Last update - 14:20 12/09/2006

IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon
By Meron Rappaport

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.


The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.

MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.

The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.

The cluster rounds which don't detonate on impact, believed by the United Nations to be around 40% of those fired by the IDF in Lebanon, remain on the ground as unexploded munitions, effectively littering the landscape with thousands of land mines which will continue to claim victims long after the war has ended.

Because of their high level of failure to detonate, it is believed that there are around 500,000 unexploded munitions on the ground in Lebanon. To date 12 Lebanese civilians have been killed by these mines since the end of the war.

According to the commander, in order to compensate for the inaccuracy of the rockets and the inability to strike individual targets precisely, units would "flood" the battlefield with munitions, accounting for the littered and explosive landscape of post-war Lebanon.

When his reserve duty came to a close, the commander in question sent a letter to Defense Minister Amir Peretz outlining the use of cluster munitions, a letter which has remained unanswered.

'Excessive injury and unnecessary suffering'

It has come to light that IDF soldiers fired phosphorous rounds in order to cause fires in Lebanon. An artillery commander has admitted to seeing trucks loaded with phosphorous rounds on their way to artillery crews in the north of Israel.

A direct hit from a phosphorous shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death.

International law forbids the use of weapons that cause "excessive injury and unnecessary suffering", and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorous rounds fall directly in that category.

The International Red Cross has determined that international law forbids the use of phosphorous and other types of flammable rounds against personnel, both civilian and military.

IDF: No violation of international law
In response, the IDF Spokesman's Office stated that "International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.

"For understandable operational reasons, the IDF does not respond to [accounts of] details of weaponry in its possession.

"The IDF makes use only of methods and weaponry which are permissible under international law. Artillery fire in general, including MLRS fire, were used in response solely to firing on the state of Israel."

The Defense Minister's office said it had not received messages regarding cluster bomb fire.

I have only one thing to say to MHG; Sieg Heil!

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

Actually Lebanon was a pretty moderate Muslim country, they are very well educated and had good relations with the U.S.

You have to seperate Lebanon from Hezbollah

[ClevelandBronco]

No, Lebanon has to separate itself from Hezbollah or all this crap will happen again.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

The problem is that they are not smart weapons. They will kill innocents.

[bcbronc]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

i hope your dog gets hit by a car.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

C'mon, Tensi. Of course there's a problem. You're not leading a team of law enforcement personnel into the home of an armed ice dealer here.

Forgive me for saying so, but your response above is too glib when it comes to figuring out how we can best confront radical Islam.

Try it this way: Would you be willing to mine a neighborhood (or even more apt, a region) in the U.S. simply because it housed terrorists? Of course you wouldn't.

It's not a law enforcement issue, and I think you're bringing too much of a law enforcement mindset to it. The target isn't so well defined, and the consequences of handling the situation poorly are world-changing.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by bcbronc

i hope your dog gets hit by a car.

Thank goodness this board is blessed by very few idiots such as you.

If you ever form a thought that might contribute to the discussion, please return.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

I have only one thing to say...

More like "only one note to play."

You represent the second coming of the Hitler youth.

We get it.

In Jack's immortal words, go sell crazy somewhere else - we're all stocked up here.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

No, Lebanon has to separate itself from Hezbollah or all this crap will happen again.

I agree. I think they will now, but you have to realize Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanon's military. Hezbollah is backed up by Iran and Iran gives Hezbollah lots of money so they can give it to the people. before this last incident there really wasn't anything lebanon's Priminister could have done.... Hopefully now they can gain control of their country.

That doesn't take away from Tensi's idiotic point that Lebanon is nothing but a country loaded with terrorists.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

The Jewpublican to the rescue!! Hey Libby, why don't you call Dubya and see if you can pay extra taxes so that he can send them poor Jews even more cluster bombs. You know so that they can defend themselves.

That's one of the more racist things I've ever read on this site.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Originally Posted by SteveTensi13

So the Israelis "mined" an entire area populated by terrorists, what's the problem?

the problem is....they weren't supposed to use them for that. We gave them cluster bombs with conditions attached. One of the conditions WAS NOT if hezzbolla fires bottle rockets across the border and kidnapps a soldier. They we to repel and advancing army.

[bendog]

Originally Posted by bcbronc

i hope your dog gets hit by a car.

Actually, it'd be better if Steve got run over and the dog got a decent home.

[SteveTensi13]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Actually Lebanon was a pretty moderate Muslim country, they are very well educated and had good relations with the U.S.

You have to seperate Lebanon from Hezbollah

Wet wood, dry wood; it all floats the same!

[SteveTensi13]

Originally Posted by bcbronc

i hope your dog gets hit by a car.

So, how's the weather in the 51st state?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rascal

They were seperate till hezbollah started getting more and more support because of the actions by US and Israel. When you see somebody who stands up for their country, when their gov't often won't or can't, you tend to follow them.

Bingo.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by sonsofkraftybob

the problem is....they weren't supposed to use them for that. We gave them cluster bombs with conditions attached. One of the conditions WAS NOT if hezzbolla fires bottle rockets across the border and kidnapps a soldier. They we to repel and advancing army.

Why should we put conditions on Isreal for using them. The U.S. used them whenever they wanted not worrying about innocent deaths.