Lelie!

[Needa Pass Rush]

I know.... another lelie thread. Wanted to put this out on it's own initially so it would attract max attn. Please merge after it has been out for a bit. Nice going Lelie. Your holdout makes you LESS likely to get what you want. (hope this hasn't been posted already!)

/sports/football/bears/cs-060807bears,1,1584588.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

This corps really hurtin'
Bears' goal to receive more production at position hits snag
By John Mullin and K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporters

August 7, 2006, 10:14 PM CDT

BOURBONNAIS -- The Bears' Muhsin Muhammad missed practice Monday to rest a sore groin and has worn a brace on his right wrist between practices, though neither injury is considered serious.

Bernard Berrian sat out again with soreness in his right hip and groin.

Mark Bradley's surgically repaired knee has been rested occasionally, Justin Gage has stood out lately despite a reputation for inconsistency and Rashied Davis is trying to convert from cornerback to receiver.

No wonder receivers coach Darryl Drake told a bystander leaving Monday's practice: "Be ready. I might need you."

In a season in which the Bears must improve a dismal passing attack that finished 31st last season, the line between depth and disappointment is a fine one.

Berrian, Gage, Bradley and Davis each has shown promise in the Bears' bid to find a consistent No. 2 receiver opposite Muhammad. But this is only training camp. And injuries aren't helping a position that needs more production.

"I get concerned when anybody is out," coach Lovie Smith said. "But it's a good chance to look at other players. We're getting good looks at Rashied Davis. Mark Bradley is getting back into the mix. The others will be back in time. If it was something serious, we'd be more concerned."

Denver, talking to as many as 10 teams, continues to shop unhappy receiver Ashley Lelie. But a deal remains unlikely with the Bears because Denver has asked for either a first- or second-round draft pick or a player who can contribute immediately. Another red flag with Lelie is that though he could be a difference-maker, he is not working out with his team and could come in with a higher risk factor for injury.

Berrian, Muhammad, Bradley, Davis and Gage each has a secure hold on a roster spot.

Airese Currie, who the Bears hoped would bring outside speed to the offense, is again injured and is not someone the Bears believe they can count on to stay healthy. They touted him during the off-season, but now he's in danger of not making the 53-man roster.

Berrian was expected to return to practice Monday. Though his injury isn't considered serious, it has derailed the momentum he had established as one of the stars of early camp.

But Berrian is confident he can pick up where he left off with quarterback Rex Grossman.

"We've been communicating well," Berrian said. "We worked a ton together during the off-season. I just have to get back out there and perform."

The same could be said of the Bears' entire receiving corps.

jmullin@tribune.com; kcjohnson@tribune.com
Copyright © 2006, The Chicago Tribune

[Clockwork Orange]

I'm all for getting something of value in return for Lelie, but if the Broncos really are insisting on a 1st or 2nd round pick or a player who can contribute immediatly, Ash better grab a Snickers because he isn't going anywhere for a while.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

I'm all for getting something of value in return for Lelie, but if the Broncos really are insisting on a 1st or 2nd round pick or a player who can contribute immediatly, Ash better grab a Snickers because he isn't going anywhere for a while.

There will be starting recievers that get seriously hurt this preseason. It is inevitable. Ideally, it will happen to teams that are already thin at the position. We are just sitting and waiting for value to come our way, which is the proper approach I think. It only has to happen to one team and then the 2nd rounder becomes part of a serious discussion. It is just a matter of time.

I like the way the team is playing it.

[Needa Pass Rush]

A better link to the Cjicago Tribune article I posted above.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....home-headlines

[Clockwork Orange]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

There will be starting recievers that get seriously hurt this preseason. It is inevitable. Ideally, it will happen to teams that are already thin at the position. We are just sitting and waiting for value to come our way, which is the proper approach I think. It only has to happen to one team and then the 2nd rounder becomes part of a serious discussion. It is just a matter of time.

I like the way the team is playing it.

I disagree. I don't think anyone's gonna pony up anything higher than a 3rd for Lelie, at best.

I agree with the approach, the Broncos have no reason to hurry or trade Lelie for the sake of trading him. I just can't see anyone getting desperate enough to overpay that badly.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

I disagree. I don't think anyone's gonna pony up anything higher than a 3rd for Lelie, at best.

I agree with the approach, the Broncos have no reason to hurry or trade Lelie for the sake of trading him. I just can't see anyone getting desperate enough to overpay that badly.

Just going by the article posted here, let us say that Muhammad went down for 6-8 in the Bears first preseason game.

You don't think we could pry the 2?

It will take only one good starting reciever that goes down to pull the 2, especially if that team's group isnt that great to start with. I think there is a good chance that this happens to at least one club.

[Clockwork Orange]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Just going by the article posted here, let us say that Muhammad went down for 6-8 in the Bears first preseason game.

You don't think we could pry the 2?

It will take only one good starting reciever that goes down to pull the 2, especially if that team's group isnt that great to start with. I think there is a good chance that this happens to at least one club.

Even in that instance, I don't think a team will part with a 2nd. You also have to remember that Lelie will be a UFA after this season, which means that whoever trades for him is risking losing him for nothing at years end. A 2nd is just too much to risk for a guy who's never shown the capability to be a #1 receiver and could be nothing more than a one year rental.

[~Crash~]

at this point I tell him to stay home and we will pay his last 6 game as he stays home piss on him I dont want his sorry ass no more !!! he is a cancer at this point. you know we should trade his ass to the arm pit of the nfl and just get rid of his sorry ass .

trade him to okland for a candy bar.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Even in that instance, I don't think a team will part with a 2nd. You also have to remember that Lelie will be a UFA after this season, which means that whoever trades for him is risking losing him for nothing at years end. A 2nd is just too much to risk for a guy who's never shown the capability to be a #1 receiver and could be nothing more than a one year rental.

According to Taco, we have already been offered at least one 3 and we rejected it. Now it seems we are being offered 4s and some crap players in packages. So it appears that we are being offered roughly around mid 3rd value right now. I don't think its a huge stretch to go from that to a 2 (or late 2, in the sense that it is a decent team that is looking to make the playoffs but loses a key piece in the preseason) if an injury occurs. You are definitely correct in that the team will be assuming the risk that the whole deal may turn out to be a one year rental. But by contrast, if it is one of those decent teams that has playoff aspirations but loses a key WR in an otherwise mediocre group, I think it is still a viable proposition. The alternative would be to take the substantial risk that you are throwing the whole season away. And that team could fashion its deal in a way not unlike the Broncos did for Walker. A one year prove yourself to us Ash, and then there is a nice sized roster bonus in the summer of 07. It only has to happen to one of these clubs.

[bpc]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

There will be starting recievers that get seriously hurt this preseason. It is inevitable. Ideally, it will happen to teams that are already thin at the position. We are just sitting and waiting for value to come our way, which is the proper approach I think. It only has to happen to one team and then the 2nd rounder becomes part of a serious discussion. It is just a matter of time.

I like the way the team is playing it.

Agreed and the one great thing that is working in our favor is that Ashley is known as a one trick pony, deep threat in most circles. You don't have to be brilliant to run the streak. I think this will benefit us when people know they can factor him into a pass offense almost immediately in that form.

I'm glad we aren't giving Ash away. I would be f'n pissed if we trade him for Haynes and a 4th. Hayne's sucks. He wasn't half the player Hali was coming out and that 4th round pick from the bears might be close to a 5th round pick if they capitalize on how terrible division might be.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

I disagree. I don't think anyone's gonna pony up anything higher than a 3rd for Lelie, at best.

I agree with the approach, the Broncos have no reason to hurry or trade Lelie for the sake of trading him. I just can't see anyone getting desperate enough to overpay that badly.

I think the approach is going to end up hurting us in the long run.

I am willing to bet that Lelie sits this year because no one wants to trade for him for that stupid price tag we want for him when we know damn good and well he isnt worth a 1st or a second.

Then next year goes on the market, gets significantly less than what he thinks he is worth nd moves on.

And we get stuck with jack schitt.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by Alec

And we get stuck with jack schitt.

If we lose him to FA his compensation might be a 3rd rounder, which is why Shanny is probably seeking more than that (plus the fact that people pay what the market will Bear, and injuries can make that market profitable).

[eddie mac]

Originally Posted by Alec

I think the approach is going to end up hurting us in the long run.

I am willing to bet that Lelie sits this year because no one wants to trade for him for that stupid price tag we want for him when we know damn good and well he isnt worth a 1st or a second.

Then next year goes on the market, gets significantly less than what he thinks he is worth nd moves on.

And we get stuck with jack schitt.

If he sits the entire year his last season isn't voided, thus he's still a Bronco.

[Mediator12]

Another red flag with Lelie is that though he could be a difference-maker, he is not working out with his team and could come in with a higher risk factor for injury.


I read this the other night and just freakin laughed. The Other side is that if he gets injured in Camp he is untradable since all trades require passing a physical. If he goes on IR he loses his year of FA value too as they can sit him the whole year and retain his rights next year from what I understand. It seems the players union did not address that either in getting their BLING! Nice work Upshaw.

And, Nice try by the Bears Reporter to loosen up his value though

[cutthemdown]

If he goes on IR he loses his year of FA value too as they can sit him the whole year and retain his rights next year from what I understand.

I dont think that is correct. You still get credit for a yr of service even if on IR.

[long beach bronco]

The real question is: What if we lose Smith or Walker with a season ending injury in the preseason? Then what?

[BroncoFiend]

Originally Posted by long beach bronco

The real question is: What if we lose Smith or Walker with a season ending injury in the preseason? Then what?

I hear Lelie is available

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

If he goes on IR he loses his year of FA value too as they can sit him the whole year and retain his rights next year from what I understand.

I dont think that is correct. You still get credit for a yr of service even if on IR.

Nope. The six game limit is not alleviated by being placed on IR on ROOKIE contracts. It was a source of contention before the CBA talks and Nothing I have read has contradicted that.

It also affects the pension and Insurance and was the main source of the problem. Guys would get IR'd before they were eligible for medical benefits and the league would just give them an injury settlement instead of granting benefits.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

According to Taco, we have already been offered at least one 3 and we rejected it.

Taco insisted that Shanny said that in a press conference, but it was never reported in any print source whatsoever. In fact, Shanny apparently debunked that rumour himself:

Originally Posted by Requiem

According to Shanahan, when asked what people offered for Lelie on draft day. . . he went on to say that they covered it enough, and it wasn't a first day pick. So I guess, that debunks anything with the third-rounder from Philadelphia talk.

I thought I'd add that, but go watch it anyways.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=44395

It does not seem very likely a 2nd is coming our way under any senario. I think Clayton has been saying of late we were looking for a 3rd or a starting caliber player. We will be lucky to get either.

[alkemical]

another lelie thread?

can we merge all 500000 threads on lelie.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

another lelie thread?

can we merge all 500000 threads on lelie.

Come one, Ames... you're starting to sound like Waaaahhshlie! You just came here to shed a tear and apparently didn't even read the first sentence of the first post. Merge away, baby!

[crowebomber]

Here's what they said in the Philly np, for what it's worth (and it's worth nothing really when it comes to this topic because we hear something different every day).

Stop the rumors. The Eagles, at least for the time being, are not interested in Ashley Lelie, the Broncos' wide receiver in the midst of a training-camp holdout. -- Philadelphia Inquirer

[loborugger]

Injuries are bound to happen during the season.... My guess is that some team, somewhere, will loose a starting WR for the season and suddenly Lelie will become very attractive to that team - maybe enough for a 1st or 2nd round pick. Sitting on him maybe the way to go.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by loborugger

Injuries are bound to happen during the season.... My guess is that some team, somewhere, will loose a starting WR for the season and suddenly Lelie will become very attractive to that team - maybe enough for a 1st or 2nd round pick. Sitting on him maybe the way to go.

Cowboys | Looking for a wide receiver
Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:11:51 -0700

Rob Phillips, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys head coach Bill Parcells said the Cowboys are actively talking with teams about possibly trading for a wide receiver. "I think we're trying to be as proactive on it as we can and see what might be available, see the teams that are heavy at that position," Parcells said. "I think we could be heavy at a spot or two, so maybe we'll be able to do some business." Parcells said he hasn't settled on a depth chart behind WRs Terrell Owens and Terry Glenn.

[baja]

Originally Posted by papi728

Cowboys | Looking for a wide receiver
Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:11:51 -0700

Rob Phillips, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys head coach Bill Parcells said the Cowboys are actively talking with teams about possibly trading for a wide receiver. "I think we're trying to be as proactive on it as we can and see what might be available, see the teams that are heavy at that position," Parcells said. "I think we could be heavy at a spot or two, so maybe we'll be able to do some business." Parcells said he hasn't settled on a depth chart behind WRs Terrell Owens and Terry Glenn.

Maybe the is a "covering your ass" thing now that Parcells has see TO's act up close and personal.