All-Time MLB draft

[JCMElway]

Hey BroncLB52, who's your DH?

[JCMElway]

Hey Atwater, Killer and Red Rocket, what's yer batting order. I can't rate these teams unless I see that!

[Bronco LB 59]

Originally Posted by JCMElway

Hey BroncLB52, who's your DH?

I am a National League fan, I don't have a DH

[JCMElway]

With these comments I'm trying to be overly critical and poke holes in the rosters. The reason is because they are all fantastic. I think everyone put a bunch of effort into their choices. So I was looking for the tiny bits of minutae to seperate one team from another. I hope no one thinks I'm bagging on them, my criticisms were meant to be harsh so I could find a way to rate one team over another. It was very difficult!

My Comments on the teams:

For the record let me say I cannot believe no one drafted Connie Mack. It was between him and Sparky for me. One of the top three managers ever, IMHO!

LB52: Great top 6 in the lineup...Aparicio and Maz were great defensively but the O may suffer against this pitching...I thik Pujols will stand the test of time....Really good starting rotation....Solid bench...Nice bullpen with Eck, Quiz, and Wags....great stuff.

No Dh huh? Does that mean you're going to have your pitchers bat vs our lineups with a DH? The only reason I'm pushing the DH is those are the runles that CW set out at the beginning. I'll rate your team as if Ott were the DH. He seems to be the best hitter off your bench. A.


Atwater: No lineup listed....Biggio seems like a reach...Klien had an unproductive 2nd half of his career...Puckett's career was short...Gehrig, Jeter, and Boggs are a strong infield....Molitor is a great DH choice....Billy Williams is solid.....Very nice rotation....I love the Hiller pick....Hernandez was not productive for a long enough period of time....Gagne is injury prone....Only three pitchers in the bullpen?!?...Bonds is good coming off the bench....Very solid bench. C+

Slap: Nice balance of lefties vs. righties.....Damn good lineup....Pop Lloydick was outstanding....Dawson ahead of Tris Speaker?.....Solid bench...Wow, great rotation....I was looking to draft Lolich and Drysdale myselfand you sniped them from me....looks like you've got a couple of reaches in the bullpen, but they'll get the job done. A-

Clockwork: Man Ram and Vlad are reaches for all time greats at this point in their career. I'd buy their presence here if they were coming off the bench.....will A Rod psych himself out being among all these great players....and is A Rod good enough defensively to be here?.....Love the rest of the batting order...Lou Brock should be starting....Not real crazy about the bench....Very nice rotation....Glavine may be the weak link there....Rivera and L. Smith are great 1-2 punch....the rest of the pen is suspect....Liriano? Dude hasn't even played a full season. R E A C H......Percival and Petitie are just OK......Torre will keep them all on an even keel. C+

Breck Bronc: Wow, helluva starting lineup....decent bench....Very nice rotation...Good pen....Blyleven might be a reach? Dunno, he was a warrior, tho....It's too early to call Santana an all time great.....Nice balance of lefties and righties....Good all around effort. B+

KI: I have a problem with the guys who used steroids here. Bonds was an MVP before the steroids thing, so I can see him being an all time great. But Sosa and McGuire are cheaters and a disgrace to the league. That being said....Griffey is too fragile, I could see him coming off the bench....Can't argue with Traynor or Ripken, outstanding.....batting order?.....good lineup otherwise....too much of a reliance on modern day players, Rogers and Wells are not all time greats....Halladay may get in the hall someday....Only 3 pitchers in the bullpen?....Good pitchers in the pen, tho', even though there's not enough of them.....Oh should be starting ahead of one of your cheaters.....Matsui, Wells, Delgado, and Glaus are reaches.....Why didn't you draft Joe Carter?!? C-

Red: Very good manager.....Strong pitching rotation. Really great......Ortiz is too early to call here, but close. If this heart thing clears up.....Andruw Jones is a huge reach.....Rest of the starting lineup is great......Nenn's career was too short....Orosco was only really productive the first half of his career....The rest of the pen is solid....Do you have rightie vs. leftie balance?....Edmonds, Rollins, and Utley are reaches at this point. Although Utley has the most potential. B

So here are my rankings!

LB 52 -- 7 pts
Slap -- 6 pts
Breck -- 5 pts
Red R -- 4 pts
CW -- 3 pts
Atwater -- 2 pts
KI -- 1 pt

The difference between Red's and Breck's teams was a coin flip in my mind. I just liked Brecks lineup and bullpen a bit more. Although Red's starting rotation was superior. Very close!

If Atwater had more than three pitchers in his Pen I would have ranked him ahead of CW's team. KI's letter grade would go up to a C+ with more bullben help as well.

[JCMElway]

All right, LB 52 is in the lead. Let's rate those teams!!!

[Breck Bronc]

Here's how I see the teams (ranking the top teams was very tough and I hope no one takes offense to any criticisms I make):

1. Leucadia Tiburones - BroncoLB52

The lineup 1 through 6 is awesome. The 7 & 8 slots are very good defensive players, but, along with the pitcher hitting ninth, will struggle offensively. They'll still score a ton of runs with the first six hitters.

BroncoLB52 did well in the later rounds, stealing a couple of guys I was going to pick, Tim Raines and Oscar Charleston.

His starting rotation is very solid; I really like Pedro as a #4 starter.

2. Burbank Nomads - Slap

Slap's team is solid all around. I love the middle of his lineup, anchored by maybe the best pure hitter of all-time, Ted Williams. I'm not a big fan of Ichiro, but he'll score a ton of runs in front of those hitters. Tris Speaker might have been the best pick in the draft where Slap took him, and I'd rather see him starting in center than The Hawk (I'd also move Dawson to RF and put Ichiro on the bench, but this is his team, not mine ).

The starting rotation is set up nice, and Slap took Goose Gossage just before I had the chance.

There's not much to nitpick here.

3. Denver Bears - Clockwork Orange

CO's strength is the starting rotation. Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson, and Randy Johnson are 3 of the nastiest pitchers ever (though I'd move Johnson to the #2 slot ahead of Gibson to break up the right/righty top two). Glavine and Smoltz are solid #4 and #5 starters.

Mariano Rivera is the only modern-day closer I would even consider drafting. After him the bullpen doesn't stand out, but with his starters it probably won't matter.

In defense of CO, Alex Rodriguez was a much better defensive shortstop than he's been at third base. Derek Jeter should have been moved to third, but that didn't happen because of politics.

His lineup is good, and Vlad and Manny deserve to be on any all-time list. The one weakness I see in the lineup is that hitters 3 through 9 are all right handed. A tough right handed pitcher could be give this lineup trouble.

4. The Grand Rapids Fightin' Mays - JCMElway

Any team with Babe Ruth hitting fourth is going to be tough. I like Clemente in right field and would probably move him up in this lineup ahead of Ernie Banks.

I went to a Rockies game the other night and there was an older gentleman sitting next to me with an Al Kaline Tigers jersey on. He kept talking about Kaline in comparison to the Rockies and Mets players playing that night (exp., "Al Kaline would have thrown that runner out!").

The effort to draft all retired players (save Clemens) is admirable (and tougher to do the research), but there are some current non-steroid players that are already all-time greats, IMO.

Roger Clemens keeps proving he's one of the top-3 pitchers of all-time, and the rest of the rotation is good. I like Bruce Sutter in the pen, he finally got to the HOF this year.

5. Greeley Grays - Atwater

Even though the guy is an a-hole and a steroid user, Barry Bonds still should be starting in left over Billy Williams. He was a great player before 1998 and it's a shame he decided to taint his entire career by juicing.

Aside from Lou Gehrig the lineup lacks power. Derek Jeter has really helped his legacy by putting up a MVP-like season this year. Whoever votes for Jeter as the most overrated player in baseball (and he always seems to "win" those polls) is ignorant.

Atwater has a good bench and starting rotation, but the bullpen is kind of weak. Hernandez and Hiller both had one great fluke season, and Gagne has had a ton of injuries to go along with his historic three-year run.

6. Red Rocket RC's team

It's hard to judge his team with no lineup's presented, but it's easy to see that Red Rocket is a younger baseball fan. He did a nice job with picking pitchers early, but his hitters suffer from that strategy.

7. Calgary Cannons-killericon

Killericon made one of the best picks of the draft (Sadaharu Oh) and unquestionably the worst pick in the draft (Billy Koch).

There are just too many Blue Jays and steroid users to be ranked higher. There are six current or former Blue Jays on the roster (Halladay, Wells, Koch, Wells, Delgado, Glaus); that's a lot for a team that hasn't finished higher than third in their division for over a decade. I'm a big fan of Colorado's Arvada West High School-product Roy Halladay, but there's no way he should be a #2 starter in an 8 team all-time draft. Billy Koch had a few decent seasons and then lost the ability to throw strikes. He wasn't even one of the better pitchers of his era, let alone all-time.

Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa couldn't have a lower reputation at this point. Mark Grace is not a very dynamic first baseman; there were better options at 1B available.

On the positive side, KI did do a good job of getting Hank Aaron, Mike Piazza (best hitting catcher ever), Lefty Grove (arguably the best left handed starter ever), the previously mentioned Japanese slugger Sadaharu Oh, and Ken Griffey Jr., who was the best center fielder of the 1990's. Otherwise, this team is a mess.

BroncoLB52 - 7 points
Slap - 6 points
Clockwork Orange - 5 points
JCM Elway - 4 points
Atwater - 3 points
Red Rocket RC - 2 points
killericon - 1 point

[JCMElway]

Here are the current averages for the team rankings:

LB 52 -- 7 pts
Slap -- 6 pts
Breck -- 5 pts
CW -- 4 pts
JCM -- 4 pts
Red R -- 3 pts
Atwater -- 2.5 pts
KI -- 1 pt

OK, 6 more posters left to do the rankings!

[Killericon]

Bear in mind, people, I didn't follow Baseball untill this year.

Calgary Cannons



C - Mike Piazza
1B - Mark Grace
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Cal Ripken Jr.
3B - Harold "Pie" Traynor
LF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Ken Griffey Jr.
RF - Henry "Hank" Aaron
DH - Sadaharu Oh

1. Eddie Collins
2. Cal Ripken Jr.
3. Henry "Hank" Aaron
4. Mike Piazza
5. Harold "Pie" Traynor
6. Mark Grace
7. Sammy Sosa
8. Ken Griffey Jr.
9. Sadaharu Oh

SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Phil Niekro
SP - Roy Halladay
SP - David Wells
SP - Kenny Rogers

CL - Trevor Hoffman

RP - Hoyt Wilhem
RP - Billy Koch

Manager - Jimmy Dykes

Bench

OF - Vernon Wells
IF - Carlos Delgado
IF- Mark McGuire
OF - Hideki Matsui
C - Roger Bresnahan
LHP - Tommy John
IF - Troy Glaus

My philosophy coming into this draft was to get the meanest batting order humanly possible. I know my pitching is sub par, and my defense is flat out weak, but even if you ignore the cheaters(McGuire never broke the rules[I know it was cheating, shut up], it wasn't illegal at the time, and this isn't a popularity contest), I think my hitting is one of the strongest coming out of the draft, and I know I'll lead in Home Runs. Took JCM's advice, Oh replaces McGuire as the DH. I am very proud of that pick...

Yes, I'm a Blue Jays homer. It's horrific, but I know the Jays best, and I'd rather make a bad pick than an uninformed one. If I had known Joe Carter hit the game winning home run for my boys in 93, I would've taken him. You have no idea how tempting it was to take Jason Bay.

My Rankings:
1. The Grand Rapids Fightin' Mays - JCMElway
2. Leucadia Tiburones - BroncoLB52
3. Denver Bears - Clockwork Orange
4. Denver Zephyrs - Breck Bronc
5. Burbank Nomads - Slap
6. Greeley Grays - Atwater
7. Unknown - Red Rocket RC

I don't have the time to do up an analysis for you at this late hour, but I'm sure none of you would want to hear it anyways...I'm not all that good at the whole Baseball thing.

Well, I'm 0 for 2 in fantasy drafts...hopefully my NHL squad will get higher rankings than my MLB or NFL ones.

It's been fun.

[JCMElway]

Originally Posted by killericon

Bear in mind, people, I didn't follow Baseball untill this year.



I don't have the time to do up an analysis for you at this late hour, but I'm sure none of you would want to hear it anyways...I'm not all that good at the whole Baseball thing.

Well, I'm 0 for 2 in fantasy drafts...hopefully my NHL squad will get higher rankings than my MLB or NFL ones.

It's been fun.

Killer, I would not say you're 0-2, this is all just menat to spur discussion and get folks talking about players and the game. You made a couple of choices I don't agree with, but any of these teams could have a chance at winning if they played one another. We're just trying to find the small things that seperate one team from another. And you're Canadian, you can't help it!

The rankings are just for fun, the drafting and thinking is the thing.

Oh, and I fully expect you to kick my ass in the hockey draft. I'm hoping all my research pays off over there, but we'll see.

[JCMElway]

LB 52 -- 7 + 7 + 6 = 20. 6.7
Slap -- 6 + 6 + 3 = 15. 5
Breck -- 5 + 4 = 9. 4.5
CW -- 5 + 3 + 5 = 13. 4.3
JCM -- 4 + 7 = 11. 5.5
Red R -- 3 + 1 = 4. 2
Atwater -- 2 + 3 + 2 = 7. 2.3
KI -- 1 + 1 = 2. 1

[JCMElway]

Current standings:

LB 52 -- 6.7
JCM -- 5.5
Slap -- 5
Breck -- 4.5
CW -- 4.3
Atwater -- 2.3
Red R -- 2
KI -- 1

[JCMElway]

Originally Posted by killericon

C - Mike Piazza
1B - Mark Grace
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Cal Ripken Jr.
3B - Harold "Pie" Traynor
LF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Ken Griffey Jr.
RF - Henry "Hank" Aaron
DH - Sadaharu Oh

1. Eddie Collins
2. Cal Ripken Jr.
3. Henry "Hank" Aaron
4. Mike Piazza
5. Harold "Pie" Traynor
6. Mark Grace
7. Sammy Sosa
8. Ken Griffey Jr.
9. Sadaharu Oh

SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Phil Niekro
SP - Roy Halladay
SP - David Wells
SP - Kenny Rogers

CL - Trevor Hoffman

RP - Hoyt Wilhem
RP - Billy Koch

Manager - Jimmy Dykes

Bench

OF - Vernon Wells
IF - Carlos Delgado
IF- Mark McGuire
OF - Hideki Matsui
C - Roger Bresnahan
LHP - Tommy John
IF - Troy Glaus

My philosophy coming into this draft was to get the meanest batting order humanly possible. I know my pitching is sub par, and my defense is flat out weak, but even if you ignore the cheaters(McGuire never broke the rules[I know it was cheating, shut up], it wasn't illegal at the time, and this isn't a popularity contest), I think my hitting is one of the strongest coming out of the draft, and I know I'll lead in Home Runs. Took JCM's advice, Oh replaces McGuire as the DH. I am very proud of that pick...

Yes, I'm a Blue Jays homer. It's horrific, but I know the Jays best, and I'd rather make a bad pick than an uninformed one. If I had known Joe Carter hit the game winning home run for my boys in 93, I would've taken him. You have no idea how tempting it was to take Jason Bay.

Also, Oh is a great pick. You should be proud. If he was taken at value he would have gone in the third round or so. Wish I would have thought of it. But he is too low in your order! I would definetly put him 5th and move Grace to ninth. Additionaly, Piazza needs to be third the Aaron batting cleanup.

[Killericon]

Originally Posted by JCMElway

Also, Oh is a great pick. You should be proud. If he was taken at value he would have gone in the third round or so. Wish I would have thought of it. But he is too low in your order! I would definetly put him 5th and move Grace to ninth. Additionaly, Piazza needs to be third the Aaron batting cleanup.

I really don't know how batting orders work, except the advice found on Wikipedia.

Updated team roster:

Calgary Cannons



C - Mike Piazza
1B - Mark Grace
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Cal Ripken Jr.
3B - Harold "Pie" Traynor
LF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Ken Griffey Jr.
RF - Henry "Hank" Aaron
DH - Sadaharu Oh

1. Eddie Collins
2. Cal Ripken Jr.
3. Mike Piazza
4. Henry "Hank" Aaron
5. Sadaharu Oh
6. Harold "Pie" Traynor
7. Mark Grace
8. Ken Griffey Jr.
9. Sammy Sosa

SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Phil Niekro
SP - Roy Halladay
SP - David Wells
SP - Kenny Rogers

CL - Trevor Hoffman

RP - Hoyt Wilhem
RP - Billy Koch
rP - Tommy John

Manager - Jimmy Dykes

Bench

OF - Vernon Wells
IF - Carlos Delgado
IF- Mark McGuire
OF - Hideki Matsui
C - Roger Bresnahan
IF - Troy Glaus

[Clockwork Orange]

I'll rank them this way.

1. Leucadia Tiburones-BroncoLB52
2. Burbank Nomads-Slap
3. Denver Zephyrs-Breck Bronc
4. The Grand Rapids Fightin' Mays-JCMElway
5. Greeley Grays-Atwater
6. Calgary Cannons-killericon
7. Red Rocket RC's team

[-Slap-]

I love doing these drafts, but I'm not crazy about the ranking process. The younger guys are at a natural disadvantage and I feel bad about marking them down sometimes.

Okay, it basically breaks down in tiers.

1) Leucadia Tiburones - BroncoLB52

2) Denver Bears - Clockwork Orange
3) The Grand Rapids Fightin' Mays - JCMElway
4) Denver Zephyrs - Breck Bronc



5) Greeley Grays - Atwater

6) Red Rocket RC's team. I'm calling them the Racers.
7) Calgary Cannons - killericon

The separation between the top four teams is very minimal, with LB52's overall balance distancing him a bit from the other three. I think the Grays are a notch below the top tier, but a cut above the final two squads.

1) Leucadia Tiburones - BroncoLB52 - Built a strong foundation by drafting a devastating offense and never looked back. Rock solid throughout and strong up the middle defensively. My only minor change would be the addition of one more lefthander in the rotation or perhaps a situational lefty in the bullpen. Not a single shaky pick.

Walter Alston is an excellent choice as manager for one of these teams. The more fiery personalities might become frustrated with him at times, but his calm steady approach would be extremely effective handling this much talent.

2) Denver Bears - Clockwork Orange - The top of his draft was unreal. He stole Cobb at #7 and then he got tremendous value with Walter Johnson at #10. You can make a strong case for Cobb as the best player ever. Nobody can convince me Johnson wasn't the best pitcher ever.

I also believe Johnny Bench was the best catcher to ever don the tools of ignorance. He only revolutionized the position.

Gold Gloves all over the infield and a superb starting rotation are the team strengths.

I don't like how overloaded the lineup is with righthanded batters. If I'm managing this squad, I probably get Brock and Alomer into the starting lineup to get some more balance.

Torre is another good choice as manager for all the same reasons as Alston.

3) The Grand Rapids Fightin' Mays - JCMElway - He got the draft off to a great start by picking the best player ever number one .

He also got excellent value on several picks which is evident when you examine his roster. This would be a very fun team to watch. The starting lineup features some of the best baserunners in baseball history, despite an overall lack of raw speed.

The only minor issue I see is the infield defense on the left side is average at best.

4) Denver Zephyrs - Breck Bronc - Breck's lineup is just plain sick. He's got Honus Wagner batting ninth for Pete's sake. His starting rotation is also dominant.

My big complaint with this team is the way its constructed. 12 pitchers are too many for this type of squad and I would say this team has fewer than 100 combined lifetime saves. That said, the pitchers he selected range from excellent to justifiable. Unfortunately this left him a short bench and its unclear how his bullpen would shake out.

I actually like the overall talent on Breck's team a bit more than JCMElway's but his roster composition doesn't work for me. This dropped him to fourth place.

5) Greeley Grays - Atwater - Atwater scared me early on in this draft. He followed up excellent picks in rounds one and two (Gehrig and Koufax) with Earl Weaver in round three and Thurman Munson in round four. Thurman, God rest his soul, belongs on one of these teams, but not anywhere near the fourth round. Weaver was a terrible pick. Third round was way too high for a manager and I'm not sure Weaver's crusty style would play with this many star players. He did love to platoon, though. Maybe that would work out alright after all.

After that two round hiccup Atwater just kept making one solid pick after another. Billy Williams, Larry Doby, Bill Freehan and Frank Baker were all great value picks. Solid team.

6) Red Rocket RC Racers - Fantastic pitching, but he overpaid for the starting rotation. He got much better value while building a terrific bullpen later on in the draft.

I also like his starting lineup, which is not provided, but this is the way I would roll them out:

Nap Lajoie, 2B
Tony Gwynn, RF
Jeff Bagwell, 1B
Carl Yastrzemski, LF
David Ortiz, DH
Roy Campanella, C
Ron Santo, 3B
Andruw Jones, CF
Pee Wee Reese, SS

Not too bad, although Gwynn and Yaz and the only lefthanded bats.

The main weakness on this team is all the young and unproven players on the bench. You're doing too much projecting.

7) Calgary Cannons - killericon - Lots of talent, especially in the starting lineup, but a couple glaring weaknesses. Grace gets destroyed when you compare him against the other first basemen in this league. I also think Wells and Rogers are very shaky choices as fourth and fifth starters.

Tremendous value from the Tommy John and Sadararu Oh picks bolster this team's roster.

[Killericon]

I just want you all to know, that I picked up MLB 2k6 today, and one of the first things I did was sign Sammy Sosa to a 2.5 million a year 3 year deal. Moved him to 2nd Baseman. He's only rated 71 though...No matter. His first pitch as a Blue Jay was from Randy Johnson, and he hit a Grand Slam. I thought you guys might enjoy that...I know I did.

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by -Slap-

B U R B A N K -- N O M A D S


Andre Dawson

Ted Williams...............................................Ichiro Suzuki


Ozzie Smith............Rogers Hornsby

Mike Schmidt.............................................Jimmie Foxx


Ivan Rodriguez

.........................................DHDHDHDHD HDHDHWillie Stargell

Manager
Chuck Tanner

Lineup
RF Suzuki (L)
2B Hornsby (R)
LF Williams (L)
1B Foxx (R)
3B Schmidt (R)
DH Stargell (L)
CF Dawson (R)
C Rodriguez (R)
SS Smith (B)


Bench
C Ted Simmons (B)
2B/3B Frankie Frisch (B)
SS Pop Lloyd (L)
LF Jim Rice (R)
CF Tris Speaker (L)
RF Sam Crawford (L)



Rotation
RHP Christy Mathewson
LHP Steve Carlton
RHP Greg Maddux
LHP Mickey Lolich
RHP Don Drysdale


Bullpen
RHP Goose Gossage
LHP Tug McGraw
RHP Kent Tekulve
LHP Al Hrabosky
RHP Moe Drabowsky


1 - Ted Williams, OF
2 - Rogers Hornsby, 2B
3 - Christy Mathewson, P
4 - Mike Schmidt, 3B
5 - Jimmie Foxx, 1B
6 - Steve Carlton, P
7 - Ozzie Smith, SS
8 - Greg Maddux, P
9 - Ichiro Suzuki, RF
10 - Andre Dawson, OF
11 - Ivan Rodriguez, C
12 - Don Drysdale, P
13 - Goose Gossage, RP
14 - Willie Stargell, LF
15 - Ted Simmons, C
16 - Frankie Frisch, 2B/3B/SS
17 - Tris Speaker, CF
18 - Mickey Lolich, P
19 - Tug McGraw, RP
20 - Kent Tekulve, RP
21 - Chuck Tanner, Manager
22 - Pop Lloyd, SS
23 - Jim Rice, LF
24 - Al Hrabosky, RP
25 - Sam Craword, OF
26 - Moe Drabowsky, RP

I figured I would take a few minutes to talk up my lads.

My goal was to achieve a strong, balanced team, but I also wanted to fill it with guys I liked watching. That said, I realize the Andre Dawson pick was a bit of a homer selection, especially in round ten. That's where he would have been drafted if chronic knee problems didn't affect him thoughout his career, though.

I made it a priority to assemble a strong defensive team. I would say I've probably got more Gold Glovers than any other squad. I would also say every player in my starting lineup is outstanding defensively, except for Williams and Hornsby.

Williams's defense was slightly below average early in his career, but he worked hard to become a solid defensive player later in his career. Hornsby's defense has been much maligned by people who argue about the greatest ever second basemen. This is unfair. He was slightly above average defensively until age and injuries robbed him of his range. He was fairly brutal with the glove at the end of his career.

We'll see if Greg Maddux wins his 16th Gold Glove this year. This would tie him with Jim Kaat (who should have been drafted) and Brooks Robinson for the most Gold Gloves at any position.

Ivan Rodriguez' 11 Gold Gloves are more than any other catcher. I would say Bench was better behind the plate, though, and Jim Sundberg was at least as good.

Jimmie Foxx played before they awarded Gold Gloves, but he was an excellent all around athlete and his defense was better than average.

Ozzie Smith's 13 Gold Gloves surpass all other shortstops and his performance in the field was unmatched.

Mike Schmidt's 10 Gold Gloves trail only Brooks Robinson. He was the best defensive third baseman in the National League throughout his career and one of the best glove men ever to play the hot corner.

Andre Dawson won four Gold Gloves in centerfield and four in right field. His total of eight Gold Gloves has been surpassed by only four OF in history.

Ichiro Suzuki has won Gold Gloves every year he's been in the majors and he possesses arguably the best arm of any rightfielder playing right now.

• Many believe Ted Williams was the best left handed hitter ever. He was the last man to bat .400 in the majors.
  
  
• Many consider Rogers Hornsby to be the best right handed hitter ever. He averaged .402 over a five year stretch from 1921-1925.
  
  
• Only 11 men have won baseball's triple crown. I have three of them, including the only two time winners (Williams and Hornsby).
  
  
• There have only been 13 triple crown seasons in baseball history and my team is responsible for five of them (Williams, Hornsby and Foxx).
  
  
• Three of the top seven lifetime batting averages in history:
  Hornsby - Second at .358
  Speaker - Sixth at .3447
  Williams - Seventh at .3444
  
  
• Tris Speaker is the all time doubles leader with 792.
  
  
• Sam Crawford is the all time triples leader with 309.
  
  
• Three 300 game winners, two 200 game winners and nine Cy Young Awards in my starting rotation.
  
  
• A thinking man's team. Six of my players became managers or served as player/managers: Mathewson, Speaker, Hornsby, Frisch, Lloyd, Williams. Three of them (Speaker, Hornsby and Frisch) managed World Series winners.

[Clockwork Orange]

Let me say that it's probably a good thing that you grabbed Dawson when you did, as I was planning on selecting him to get back at you for taking Ozzie Smith.

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Let me say that it's probably a good thing that you grabbed Dawson when you did, as I was planning on selecting him to get back at you for taking Ozzie Smith.

[Clockwork Orange]

That's right, I forgot, we'll never be even for that one.

[Hotwheelz]

Nap Lajoie, 2B
Tony Gwynn, RF
Jeff Bagwell, 1B
Carl Yastrzemski, LF
David Ortiz, DH
Roy Campanella, C
Ron Santo, 3B
Andruw Jones, CF
Pee Wee Reese, SS

That.

[JCMElway]

Bump