If the U.S. Tries to Control Its Borders, Mexico Will Sue

[Rohirrim]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

That's all I can say. I feel like I'm living in Alice in Wonderland. Mexico obviously believes they can tell us what to do. Interesting concept.

[Smiling Assassin27]

call me crazy but shouldn't Mexico be working on improving its economy, social disfunction, and politically corrupt government instead of filing frivolous lawsuits?

i say bring it on, senor fox.

[Rascal]

Well then we should be suing Mexico for having to house, feed, treat, etc millions of their illegals.

[Hotrod]

Fox it a freaking idiot.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

call me crazy but shouldn't Mexico be working on improving its economy, social disfunction, and politically corrupt government instead of filing frivolous lawsuits?

i say bring it on, senor fox.

They have been doing very well for the last couple of hundreds of years. You know, they have the most billionaires in the world. Why help the less fortunate when thye have this great stat! I wonder if central america countries will sue Mexico for securing their southern border?

[Spider]

fox can kiss my double clutching gear jamming coffee drinking áss

[Old Dude]

There actually are some legal issues surrounding use of a military entity, such as the guard, to participate in the peacetime arrest and detention of civilians.

I'm not sure that applies to aliens.

Regardless, Bush was careful to point out that the guard would not be directly involved in arrests. It is supposed to be there as a support for surveillance (and building/maintaining roads and the like) ...

[Old Dude]

Mexican candidates criticize Fox over National Guard stance

BY LAURENCE ILIFF
The Dallas Morning News

MEXICO CITY - Immigration emerged as a potentially hot issue in the Mexican presidential campaign Tuesday as candidates criticized President Vicente Fox for not protesting the U.S. decision to put National Guard troops on the border.

Fox can't run for re-election but is supporting his conservative National Action Party's candidate, Felipe Calderon, the president's former energy minister.

Whether Fox's caution before the Americans will hurt the front-runner Calderon politically is unclear, but analysts said opposition candidates seized on the Fox response to criticize the president and his party.

"I think the approach of this government on border issues continues to be very, very wrong, because rather than defending Mexicans, what they are doing is inhibiting investment," said Roberto Madrazo, candidate of the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI.

"No one is going to invest in militarized zones," said Madrazo. "Time has run out for the government of President Fox and (his National Action Party); time has run out for his foreign policy ... which is a reflection of his bad domestic policy."

President Bush announced the planned temporary deployment of up to 6,000 Guard troops to the border in a speech Monday night.

Mexico lost almost half its territory in 1848 after the U.S.-Mexico War and has regularly opposed U.S. military intervention around the world, including in Iraq.

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, candidate for the center-left Party of the Democratic Revolution, or PRD, said the Fox government is not respected by its powerful neighbor because of Mexico's internal disarray.

"If there were jobs, development, investment, respect and principles, then the outside world would take us seriously, but none of that has happened," said Lopez Obrador.

Calderon went out of his way Tuesday to reiterate that border enforcement is not the answer to illegal immigration.

The Guard deployment "champions the erroneous conception that to solve the immigration issue there must be more persecution and containment of Mexican immigrants," Calderon said.

Political analyst Jose Antonio Crespo said the National Guard issue may not catch fire in Mexico "unless it is taken up by the candidates" over time. In part, that may depend on whether Fox's political calculation pans out: By not confronting the Americans, he hopes to smooth the way for comprehensive immigration changes, Crespo said.

...

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...d/14594651.htm

[Rascal]

The issues Old Dude refers to is this (props to Bronx33):

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

Mexican candidates criticize Fox over National Guard stance

BY LAURENCE ILIFF
The Dallas Morning News

MEXICO CITY - Immigration emerged as a potentially hot issue in the Mexican presidential campaign Tuesday as candidates criticized President Vicente Fox for not protesting the U.S. decision to put National Guard troops on the border.

Fox can't run for re-election but is supporting his conservative National Action Party's candidate, Felipe Calderon, the president's former energy minister.

Whether Fox's caution before the Americans will hurt the front-runner Calderon politically is unclear, but analysts said opposition candidates seized on the Fox response to criticize the president and his party.

"I think the approach of this government on border issues continues to be very, very wrong, because rather than defending Mexicans, what they are doing is inhibiting investment," said Roberto Madrazo, candidate of the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI.

"No one is going to invest in militarized zones," said Madrazo. "Time has run out for the government of President Fox and (his National Action Party); time has run out for his foreign policy ... which is a reflection of his bad domestic policy."

President Bush announced the planned temporary deployment of up to 6,000 Guard troops to the border in a speech Monday night.

Mexico lost almost half its territory in 1848 after the U.S.-Mexico War and has regularly opposed U.S. military intervention around the world, including in Iraq.

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, candidate for the center-left Party of the Democratic Revolution, or PRD, said the Fox government is not respected by its powerful neighbor because of Mexico's internal disarray.

"If there were jobs, development, investment, respect and principles, then the outside world would take us seriously, but none of that has happened," said Lopez Obrador.

Calderon went out of his way Tuesday to reiterate that border enforcement is not the answer to illegal immigration.

The Guard deployment "champions the erroneous conception that to solve the immigration issue there must be more persecution and containment of Mexican immigrants," Calderon said.

Political analyst Jose Antonio Crespo said the National Guard issue may not catch fire in Mexico "unless it is taken up by the candidates" over time. In part, that may depend on whether Fox's political calculation pans out: By not confronting the Americans, he hopes to smooth the way for comprehensive immigration changes, Crespo said.

...

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...d/14594651.htm

Exactly!


And yes it is the answer for illegal immigration for the (NOW) your next president will have to address the long term fix and that is by creating a economy AND EDUCATION in mexico for the people. Hopefully mexico doesn't elect another pu$$y that doesn't do anything (AGAIN).

[Old Dude]

Originally Posted by Rascal

The issues Old Dude refers to is this (props to Bronx33):

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385)...

Well, there you go. This is why the Guard would be working in only an "adjunct" capacity. But I suppose tha, to the extent it frees up Border Patrol agents from those same adjunct duties, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

There actually are some legal issues surrounding use of a military entity, such as the guard, to participate in the peacetime arrest and detention of civilians.

I'm not sure that applies to aliens.

Regardless, Bush was careful to point out that the guard would not be directly involved in arrests. It is supposed to be there as a support for surveillance (and building/maintaining roads and the like) ...

The national guard will be building the fence and reporting illegals basically illegals can laugh at them and walk right on by.

[Rohirrim]

I'll tell you one thing, this president hasn't done National Guard recruiters any favors. I can just see them now, "Well, you can wear a hundred pounds of gear and fight in 120 degree temps. or you can build a fence in the desert in 120 degree temps. Which would you prefer?"

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

call me crazy but shouldn't Mexico be working on improving its economy, social disfunction, and politically corrupt government instead of filing frivolous lawsuits?

i say bring it on, senor fox.

why, they get that here - and mexico doesn't have to put up with them.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I'll tell you one thing, this president hasn't done National Guard recruiters any favors. I can just see them now, "Well, you can wear a hundred pounds of gear and fight in 120 degree temps. or you can build a fence in the desert in 120 degree temps. Which would you prefer?"

New moto is (build and you can build)

[Dudeskey]

So let me get this straight: The Mexican gub'mint would rather sue than try to fix their problems w/ poverty and corruption that Vicente Fox promised to fix? You don't see mother****ers trying to cross illegally from the north as much trying to et the hell out of Canada do you? No, because for the most part they have their **** together, in some ways more than we do IMO. So it all goes back to Mexico... god I hope Fox is replaced with that ex Mexico City Mayor dude...

[Garcia Bronco]

file it with who?

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

The national guard will be building the fence and reporting illegals basically illegals can laugh at them and walk right on by.

Yup it will just be for show. Immigration wont get done in the near future. House Republicans arent budging until there is an order that calls for a 700 mile fence. I understand that Tancredo & Co told Rove to take a hike when Rove tried to bridge the gap between the senate and house republicans.This notion that the mexicans/others are doing the job that americans wont do is really pissing me off, Americans will do the job IF YOU PAY THEM GOOD MONEY.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by 24champbailey

This notion that the mexicans/others are doing the job that americans wont do is really pissing me off, Americans will do the job IF YOU PAY THEM GOOD MONEY.

I totally agree, but these sure don't sound like the words of a bush supporter.

It seems that before this immigration issue was pushed front and center, most Bush supporters didn't give a **** less about American workers, jobs, or wages.

When liberals argued in support of better conditions for Wally World employess, for example, the bush lovers told us to go screw ourselves.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I'll tell you one thing, this president hasn't done National Guard recruiters any favors. I can just see them now, "Well, you can wear a hundred pounds of gear and fight in 120 degree temps. or you can build a fence in the desert in 120 degree temps. Which would you prefer?"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Mexico obviously believes they can tell us what to do. Interesting concept.

Don't we import more of our oil from Mexico than any other country besides Saudi Arabia?

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I totally agree, but these sure don't sound like the words of a bush supporter.

It seems that before this immigration issue was pushed front and center, most Bush supporters didn't give a **** less about American workers, jobs, or wages.

When liberals argued in support of better conditions for Wally World employess, for example, the bush lovers told us to go screw ourselves.

I still haven't gotten a response from any Democrats I've written to as to why they have decided to lead the charge for amnesty for illegal aliens. All I get is silence. Illegal immigration's heaviest impact is on the poor, working stiffs of America. It is their jobs which are taken away. It is they who have to spend hours waiting in ERs while illegal aliens are served before them. It is their already decimated schools which are further burdened with the costs of educating illegal aliens. This was once the constituency of the Democrats; the working people of America.

But has anybody noticed that neither party is mentioning the elephant in the room? There's one way, and one way only, to stop illegal immigration in its tracks. No, it's not fences on the border. It's not Guard troops on the border. It's not ID cards, fines, guest worker programs, bracero programs, farm worker programs or any of the other "dances" that Congress comes up with to skirt the real issue.

It's locking up those who give illegal immigrants jobs. This is the "food" of illegal immigration. Stop the food and you kill the beast.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I still haven't gotten a response from any Democrats I've written to as to why they have decided to lead the charge for amnesty for illegal aliens. All I get is silence. Illegal immigration's heaviest impact is on the poor, working stiffs of America. It is their jobs which are taken away. It is they who have to spend hours waiting in ERs while illegal aliens are served before them. It is their already decimated schools which are further burdened with the costs of educating illegal aliens. This was once the constituency of the Democrats; the working people of America.

But has anybody noticed that neither party is mentioning the elephant in the room? There's one way, and one way only, to stop illegal immigration in its tracks. No, it's not fences on the border. It's not Guard troops on the border. It's not ID cards, fines, guest worker programs, bracero programs, farm worker programs or any of the other "dances" that Congress comes up with to skirt the real issue.

It's locking up those who give illegal immigrants jobs. This is the "food" of illegal immigration. Stop the food and you kill the beast.

Absolutely right. It would be self deportation through atrition. We do this, as well as take away all the freebies they receive, they will not have any reason to stay here. But, uggh, and I hate saying this, I suspect that many members of Congress, as well as President Bush, are more beholden to serve the interests of the major campaign contributers than they are the people who voted for them. That is the only reasonable explanation that I can think of as to why our (mostly) Senators are acting the way they are.

Another thing that we could do is enact a 60%-90% tax of any Western Union or Moneygram money transfers to Mexico. Of course they would then send the money back through mail, but it would be much less reliable.

[RMT]

I like Bill O'Reilly's threat that if ONE lawsuit is filed by Mexican authorities over of the use of the National Guard on the border that he will call for a boycott of ALL Mexican goods and travel to Mexico. Heck, I started that two months ago.

[alkemical]

yeah, like people would stand by that. I mean, what we are told to buy american so if american companies are using mexican goods/services....

Instead of shipping our jobs to china/india - we should send the jobs to mexico -