I looked at some film of all four "Future" AFC West Quarterbacks. - The Orange Mane

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 03:11 AM

There was a poll comparing our divisions potential future stars so I thought I'd really take a look at everyone and give my opinion.

I was able to look at quite a bit of footage of all four of the young QB's in the AFC west waiting in the wings. I tried to break down how they play, their mechanics, etc. Here's my thoughts (if you care)

Andrew Walter - Arizona State

Possitives:

Tall (6'6") pure pocket passer. Reminded me of Drew Bledsoe. Great arm and great accuracy. Really puts some zip on his passes. He seems to understand anticipation of patterns and how a receiver attacks coverages. Waits for the guys to break open. Doesn't stare down receivers. Knows where he's going with the football. Great overall passer. Reall surprised me.

Negatives:

Well, he's a freaking Raider for starters.

Not very mobile. He's not Bledsoe slow, and he can get rid of the ball, but he is pretty dang slow. Sloppy footwork. Drop backs are messy. Doesn't always step into his throws when he should. Not a great deal of pocket awareness. Slower release. While his footwork sucks, it didn't seem to affect his ability throw accurately and with some zip. I think he's just not used to getting rushed. In college the rush rarely came close to him and so setting an anchor point and drops backs were almost unimportant (at least it appeared that way). This and his slow release can hurt him (and it did in some preseason Raider games.) My only other knock would be his seeming ho-hum approach to the game. Doesn't seem to attack the game with competitive tenacity.

He's definitely someone who could play at the pro level and be successful. He just needs some good protection. He'll pick teams appart and knows what he's doing. Frankly, I'm not thrilled about what he could do if he blossoms over there.

Philip Rivers - North Carolina State

Possitives:

Tall (6-5). Accurate. Decisive. I like that he doesn't pump the ball or hold on too long. Reacts well and always knows where his safety valves are. Has some decent footwork and pretty good pocket awareness. Can slide around to buy time to look for more targets. Makes sure his feet are set and pointed the right way before the throw. Obviously has had a lot of collegiate success and shown some great leadership.

Negatives:

I didn't like his arm or his release. He throws a lot of floaters. He's very stiff. He's not slow he just doesn't have a ton of body control. It seems like when he moves it's taking a ton of effort. His high accuracy in college seemed to be more a result of his receivers being horribly wide open and him hitting his safety valves way too much. I would even say he uses them as his second read. He wastes a ton of motion throwing. His release is horrible. He pushes the ball and does not get full arm extension.

Overall I'd say that he's an accurate quarterback with average arm (for the NFL). I don't like his arm motion or his body control at all. Not the most accurate passer but good at finding the most open receiver so it doesn't matter as much.

Brodie Croyle - Alabama

Possitives:

Likable. A real leader. Of all four he was the one that seemed to play with the most emotion. Competitor. Has a good arm. Everything I've read on him says that he really made an effort to prepare for each game. Throws a pretty deep ball. Great footwork. Shows excellent dexterity and body control. Sets his feet before he passes. Doesn't make poor decisions. Great release.

Negatives:

Well he has the knees of a WWII veteran, and the body of Don Knotts. Not a great combination, obviously. He gets injured quite a bit. He doesn't run well despite his quick feet. His accuracy isn't that great. A lot of his receivers had to make some adjustments to the catch, though his deep balls are pretty spot on. Other than that, there was little I had a problem with.

Overall I'd say he's exactly what he is: a third round QB. I LOVE his attitude and fire and his teammates love him. That's more important than you'd think. good work ethic. Nonetheless I think he's too fragile and worn down at this stage to make a viable option as a regular starter.

Jay Cuttler - Vanderbilt

Possitives:

He's a Bronco

Cannon of an arm and very accurate. Of the three I'd say he has the best arm. His accuracy is pretty amazing especially at long range. He is very athletic and durable. Never missed a game due to injury. His release is fast and he gets good extention on his throws. Can really move and make plays when things break down. Great at improvisation. Throws well on the run. Doesn't stare down receivers and goes through reads very quickly. Puts the ball where only his gut can get it. Great leader. Great attitude.

Negatives:

He forces too many throws. Gambles quite a bit. I'd say half of his throws that he forces would be picked off in the NFL. Needs to reign things in. Average footwork. Needs to calm down. Can lean on his arm strength too much.

Overall I'll go with what Jeff fisher said "There is very little to not like about this kid." He's the complete package.

Of the four I like Cuttler the best for our system. If I had to rank the other three I'd go with this:

Walter
Rivers
Croyle (Though if Croyle wasn't injured and skinny I'd have him above Rivers.)

Bob's your Information Minister · 05-03-2006, 03:15 AM

Croyle's accuracy is better than you're describing, at least from what I've seen. I've searched the 'net high and low for highlights and can't find much. Maybe you can hook me up.

Also, Croyle won't be skinny in two years. And I have confidence that he can take a hit in the NFL. His senior season he was sacked 36 times and didn't miss a game.

I guess time will tell. I'll be really disappointed if a knee injury ends his career early.

Tha rock · 05-03-2006, 03:17 AM

Nice analysis walter can run a 4.6 flat thats faster than cutler, its also a toss up on the deep ball walter can sling it with more accuracy.

Bob's your Information Minister · 05-03-2006, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Great footwork. Shows excellent dexterity and body control.

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha rock

Nice analysis walter can run a 4.6 flat thats faster than cutler, its also a toss up on the deep ball walter can sling it with more accuracy.

In games he looks like a joke running. That preseason game against the Saints was pretty funny when he tried to run.

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

I didn't review Joe Montana, Bob. But that's a nice picture of man past his prime.

Bob's your Information Minister · 05-03-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I didn't review Joe Montana, Bob. But that's a nice picture of man past his prime.

He had great footwork, dexterity and body control.

Odysseus · 05-03-2006, 03:34 AM

Great post Kaylore.

I would rather Cutler focus on being a game manager than a gunslinger. I think they should bolt him down like Frankenstein until the lightning strikes and someone can actually scream "It's alive!" I think he needs at least two years bench time. I seriously don't want him starting next year even if he's "ready". I think when fans see this guy's gun they are going to lose it.

I think it's going to be interesting to watch over time as these four careers unfold. Rivers gets the early jump in this contest in my opinion but it's going to come down to rings in the end.

Tha rock · 05-03-2006, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

He had great footwork, dexterity and body control.

dont ever compare the two unless hes a clutch performer who can be joe cool the only one close is brady. i see croyle as a less prductive bulger.

Tha rock · 05-03-2006, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

In games he looks like a joke running. That preseason game against the Saints was pretty funny when he tried to run.

i no but hes elsuive and can make things happen move the pocket and shows awareness

here is some film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJNDY...ndrew%20walter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFvHQ...ndrew%20walter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqxG...ndrew%20walter

check them out

watermock · 05-03-2006, 03:59 AM

Not only is Cutler the best prospect of the bunch, we actually have an alternate ProBowl QB and Shanahan and Dinger as well as the addition of Walker. This is almost comical.

Atlas · 05-03-2006, 04:00 AM

I didn't know Walters was that tall. Tall QBs have always had a hard time in the NFL. It seems they are really prone to leg injuries because they are often tackled low. I think Byron Leftwhich is a pretty good example of this.

Tha rock · 05-03-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

I didn't know Walters was that tall. Tall QBs have always had a hard time in the NFL. It seems they are really prone to leg injuries because they are often tackled low. I think Byron Leftwhich is a pretty good example of this.

that doesnt mean he will, we have a coach who can work with a young qb to we also have two better WR than walker.

Raider Bill · 05-03-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Of the four I like Cuttler the best for our system.

That's the thing, I like Walter for what we're trying to do (deep comeback/sideline routes) he doesn't fit with a dink and dunk team, but fits what we're trying to do so long as the OL plays at a reasonable level.

Walter didn't run 4.6. He ran a 4.8 at his pro day, he's not fast, but he's not Collins slow either. Teams were expecting him to be over 5 seconds.

Anyhow good job since you actually took the time to watch all 4 and tried to be unbiased about it.

Ballhawk · 05-03-2006, 07:23 AM

I like Walters and even wanted Denver to draft him, or more correctly draft him to play with Lelie or trade Lelie and get a WCO WR. I think Walters can be a very good NFL QB playing in a vertical O. He can make all the throws and is tall enough to look over the line and find the open guy.

That being said I still think Cutler as far as potential goes is head and shoulders above Walters. His release is just so quick and combined with that arm strength he is going to be deadly on rollouts. He is also very, and I mena very good, at hitting guys in stride. This is paticularly true of hitting the RB in the flat, which as many QB coaches will tell you is one of the more difficult throws to make (Jake is horrible at it).

toad · 05-03-2006, 07:37 AM

I followed Rivers very closely for 4 years at NC State...and was devestated when he went to our division rivals.

His intangibles are right up there with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. He's very intelligent, a great leader, a fiery competitor, and generally has the aura of a winner.

I hope we see the same from Cutler....Cutler vs. Rivers will be some great QB battles in a few years.

Smiling Assassin27 · 05-03-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

yeah, prolly not. i can see him possibly being a trent green clone (good release, moderately elusive, good leader) but nothing points to him being able to clean montana's shower stall, let alone carry his jock.

Raider Bill · 05-03-2006, 08:56 AM

Walter looked a lot better moving around in the pocket in that 49'ers game. I know it's only playing SF's spares, but he's playing with our spare OL, recievers and RB's so it's kinda relative.

He threw a goddammed pea between 2 defenders, the reciever was so well covered he didnt expect it and it hit him in the head!

He threw a 50 yard strike down the right sideline to a well covered Johhny Morrant (without stepping into it as the G is pushed back into his face).

As far as his footwork, I dont know, it didnt really look like AZ state ran a timing offense, he just drops 7 steps bounces around, and waits for someone to get seperation.

fontaine · 05-03-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toad

I followed Rivers very closely for 4 years at NC State...and was devestated when he went to our division rivals.

His intangibles are right up there with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. He's very intelligent, a great leader, a fiery competitor, and generally has the aura of a winner.

I hope we see the same from Cutler....Cutler vs. Rivers will be some great QB battles in a few years.

I agree on this. I think Rivers is going to be one of the best QBs in the AFC in a few years but I hope I'm wrong.

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 11:45 AM

Hey everyone is going to have their opinions but the guy doesn't seem to play with much finese. I'm not convinced on Rivers yet, but I guess we'll all know for sure pretty quick.

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha rock

i no but hes elsuive and can make things happen move the pocket and shows awareness

here is some film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJNDY...ndrew%20walter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFvHQ...ndrew%20walter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqxG...ndrew%20walter

check them out

These guys seem to agree with me (or I with them, I guess.) You watch him play and he's clearly a purely pocket passer.

OrangeShadow · 05-03-2006, 12:01 PM

the best clip of brooks is when champ ran from one sideof the endzone to the other to pick him off

The Big E · 05-03-2006, 12:10 PM

Nice job, Kaylore.

I have compared Walter to a more mobile Bledsoe, as another poster did earlier. His deep ball is excellent, and at ASU he hit Shaun McDonald in stride consistently on the deep ball. I would worry about what he might do throwing to Moss.

Walter does come across as pretty emotionless, which is probably why I never got behind him the same way I did with that other ASU QB, Mr. Plummer.

I originally thought that the best ongoing QB divisional battles would be between Waffle's lover and Carson Palmer, but there is some real potential in the AFC West that could cut across all 4 teams.

Kaylore · 05-03-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big E

Walter does come across as pretty emotionless, which is probably why I never got behind him the same way I did with that other ASU QB, Mr. Plummer.

Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad someone else noticed. I thought I was going to get ripped for that for being nit-picky, but you watch him play and he almost looks bored.

toad · 05-03-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Hey everyone is going to have their opinions but the guy doesn't seem to play with much finese. I'm not convinced on Rivers yet, but I guess we'll all know for sure pretty quick.

He'll certainly experience growing pains in his first year as a starter but, long term, I think he's certainly a better option than Brees.

Rivers is hard to explain -- from looking at his mechanics and so forth you wouldn't think he'd be great but he simply has "it" when it comes to getting it done and winning.

Speaking of his athelticism, of my buddies saw him at NC State's training camp a few years back and said Rivers was outperforming DBs and RBs on most of the agility drills.

05-03-2006, 03:11 AM	#1
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,010 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	I looked at some film of all four "Future" AFC West Quarterbacks. There was a poll comparing our divisions potential future stars so I thought I'd really take a look at everyone and give my opinion. I was able to look at quite a bit of footage of all four of the young QB's in the AFC west waiting in the wings. I tried to break down how they play, their mechanics, etc. Here's my thoughts (if you care) Andrew Walter - Arizona State Possitives: Tall (6'6") pure pocket passer. Reminded me of Drew Bledsoe. Great arm and great accuracy. Really puts some zip on his passes. He seems to understand anticipation of patterns and how a receiver attacks coverages. Waits for the guys to break open. Doesn't stare down receivers. Knows where he's going with the football. Great overall passer. Reall surprised me. Negatives: Well, he's a freaking Raider for starters. Not very mobile. He's not Bledsoe slow, and he can get rid of the ball, but he is pretty dang slow. Sloppy footwork. Drop backs are messy. Doesn't always step into his throws when he should. Not a great deal of pocket awareness. Slower release. While his footwork sucks, it didn't seem to affect his ability throw accurately and with some zip. I think he's just not used to getting rushed. In college the rush rarely came close to him and so setting an anchor point and drops backs were almost unimportant (at least it appeared that way). This and his slow release can hurt him (and it did in some preseason Raider games.) My only other knock would be his seeming ho-hum approach to the game. Doesn't seem to attack the game with competitive tenacity. He's definitely someone who could play at the pro level and be successful. He just needs some good protection. He'll pick teams appart and knows what he's doing. Frankly, I'm not thrilled about what he could do if he blossoms over there. Philip Rivers - North Carolina State Possitives: Tall (6-5). Accurate. Decisive. I like that he doesn't pump the ball or hold on too long. Reacts well and always knows where his safety valves are. Has some decent footwork and pretty good pocket awareness. Can slide around to buy time to look for more targets. Makes sure his feet are set and pointed the right way before the throw. Obviously has had a lot of collegiate success and shown some great leadership. Negatives: I didn't like his arm or his release. He throws a lot of floaters. He's very stiff. He's not slow he just doesn't have a ton of body control. It seems like when he moves it's taking a ton of effort. His high accuracy in college seemed to be more a result of his receivers being horribly wide open and him hitting his safety valves way too much. I would even say he uses them as his second read. He wastes a ton of motion throwing. His release is horrible. He pushes the ball and does not get full arm extension. Overall I'd say that he's an accurate quarterback with average arm (for the NFL). I don't like his arm motion or his body control at all. Not the most accurate passer but good at finding the most open receiver so it doesn't matter as much. Brodie Croyle - Alabama Possitives: Likable. A real leader. Of all four he was the one that seemed to play with the most emotion. Competitor. Has a good arm. Everything I've read on him says that he really made an effort to prepare for each game. Throws a pretty deep ball. Great footwork. Shows excellent dexterity and body control. Sets his feet before he passes. Doesn't make poor decisions. Great release. Negatives: Well he has the knees of a WWII veteran, and the body of Don Knotts. Not a great combination, obviously. He gets injured quite a bit. He doesn't run well despite his quick feet. His accuracy isn't that great. A lot of his receivers had to make some adjustments to the catch, though his deep balls are pretty spot on. Other than that, there was little I had a problem with. Overall I'd say he's exactly what he is: a third round QB. I LOVE his attitude and fire and his teammates love him. That's more important than you'd think. good work ethic. Nonetheless I think he's too fragile and worn down at this stage to make a viable option as a regular starter. Jay Cuttler - Vanderbilt Possitives: He's a Bronco Cannon of an arm and very accurate. Of the three I'd say he has the best arm. His accuracy is pretty amazing especially at long range. He is very athletic and durable. Never missed a game due to injury. His release is fast and he gets good extention on his throws. Can really move and make plays when things break down. Great at improvisation. Throws well on the run. Doesn't stare down receivers and goes through reads very quickly. Puts the ball where only his gut can get it. Great leader. Great attitude. Negatives: He forces too many throws. Gambles quite a bit. I'd say half of his throws that he forces would be picked off in the NFL. Needs to reign things in. Average footwork. Needs to calm down. Can lean on his arm strength too much. Overall I'll go with what Jeff fisher said "There is very little to not like about this kid." He's the complete package. Of the four I like Cuttler the best for our system. If I had to rank the other three I'd go with this: Walter Rivers Croyle (Though if Croyle wasn't injured and skinny I'd have him above Rivers.)

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05-03-2006, 03:15 AM	#2
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,915 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	Croyle's accuracy is better than you're describing, at least from what I've seen. I've searched the 'net high and low for highlights and can't find much. Maybe you can hook me up. Also, Croyle won't be skinny in two years. And I have confidence that he can take a hit in the NFL. His senior season he was sacked 36 times and didn't miss a game. I guess time will tell. I'll be really disappointed if a knee injury ends his career early.

05-03-2006, 03:17 AM	#3
Tha rock Italian stallion raiderssssss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NY,NY Posts: 472	Nice analysis walter can run a 4.6 flat thats faster than cutler, its also a toss up on the deep ball walter can sling it with more accuracy.

05-03-2006, 03:34 AM	#8
Odysseus Fan of the home team Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 12,107 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mark Schlereth	Great post Kaylore. I would rather Cutler focus on being a game manager than a gunslinger. I think they should bolt him down like Frankenstein until the lightning strikes and someone can actually scream "It's alive!" I think he needs at least two years bench time. I seriously don't want him starting next year even if he's "ready". I think when fans see this guy's gun they are going to lose it. I think it's going to be interesting to watch over time as these four careers unfold. Rivers gets the early jump in this contest in my opinion but it's going to come down to rings in the end.

05-03-2006, 03:59 AM	#11
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	Not only is Cutler the best prospect of the bunch, we actually have an alternate ProBowl QB and Shanahan and Dinger as well as the addition of Walker. This is almost comical.

05-03-2006, 04:00 AM	#12
Atlas Draft Defense Early&Often Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18,526	I didn't know Walters was that tall. Tall QBs have always had a hard time in the NFL. It seems they are really prone to leg injuries because they are often tackled low. I think Byron Leftwhich is a pretty good example of this.

05-03-2006, 07:23 AM	#15
Ballhawk Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,132	I like Walters and even wanted Denver to draft him, or more correctly draft him to play with Lelie or trade Lelie and get a WCO WR. I think Walters can be a very good NFL QB playing in a vertical O. He can make all the throws and is tall enough to look over the line and find the open guy. That being said I still think Cutler as far as potential goes is head and shoulders above Walters. His release is just so quick and combined with that arm strength he is going to be deadly on rollouts. He is also very, and I mena very good, at hitting guys in stride. This is paticularly true of hitting the RB in the flat, which as many QB coaches will tell you is one of the more difficult throws to make (Jake is horrible at it).

05-03-2006, 07:37 AM	#16
toad Pro Bowler Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 657 Adopt-a-Bronco: Brian Clark	I followed Rivers very closely for 4 years at NC State...and was devestated when he went to our division rivals. His intangibles are right up there with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. He's very intelligent, a great leader, a fiery competitor, and generally has the aura of a winner. I hope we see the same from Cutler....Cutler vs. Rivers will be some great QB battles in a few years.

05-03-2006, 08:56 AM	#18
Raider Bill ........ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Southern New Joisey Posts: 4,194	Walter looked a lot better moving around in the pocket in that 49'ers game. I know it's only playing SF's spares, but he's playing with our spare OL, recievers and RB's so it's kinda relative. He threw a goddammed pea between 2 defenders, the reciever was so well covered he didnt expect it and it hit him in the head! He threw a 50 yard strike down the right sideline to a well covered Johhny Morrant (without stepping into it as the G is pushed back into his face). As far as his footwork, I dont know, it didnt really look like AZ state ran a timing offense, he just drops 7 steps bounces around, and waits for someone to get seperation.

05-03-2006, 11:45 AM	#20
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,010 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	Hey everyone is going to have their opinions but the guy doesn't seem to play with much finese. I'm not convinced on Rivers yet, but I guess we'll all know for sure pretty quick.

05-03-2006, 12:01 PM	#22
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	the best clip of brooks is when champ ran from one sideof the endzone to the other to pick him off

05-03-2006, 12:10 PM	#23
The Big E Ring of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach Posts: 1,910	Nice job, Kaylore. I have compared Walter to a more mobile Bledsoe, as another poster did earlier. His deep ball is excellent, and at ASU he hit Shaun McDonald in stride consistently on the deep ball. I would worry about what he might do throwing to Moss. Walter does come across as pretty emotionless, which is probably why I never got behind him the same way I did with that other ASU QB, Mr. Plummer. I originally thought that the best ongoing QB divisional battles would be between Waffle's lover and Carson Palmer, but there is some real potential in the AFC West that could cut across all 4 teams.