N B A M V P - Page 7 - The Orange Mane

epicSocialism4tw · 04-10-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUBuffman08

By doing a simple subtraction from each team (Nash from Phx, Dirk from Dal) I think its fairly obvious who is MORE VALUBLE to their team. If you honestly think that the team in Phx sans Nash would be better than the Mavs without Dirk, then you're arguement is nothing more than homerism

That's rediculous.

You are using a theoretical argument to make a point. There is no support to your claim. There are no facts that support it. You are using your perception and interpretation to conclude what would theoretically (in your mind) be the result of that situation.

Dallas lost the only game that Dirk missed time in this season. They were winning easily when he left.

This argument is poor and shouldnt even be considered seriously.

Rulon Velvet Jones · 04-10-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

yeah...Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Lamar Odom, Devean George, Chris Mihm...

are better than...

Eddie Jones, Mike Miller, Bobby Jackson, Shane Battier, Damon Stoudamire, Hakim Warrick, Lorenzen Wright...

You're an idiot...bottom line...

no more talking to you...

It would be a pleasure never to hear from you on this argument anyway. You've offered nothing and your knowledge of the NBA is sophomoric. Way to go right to namecalling when you lose on your point.

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:15 PM

As was mentioned earlier, Chauncey Billups is the MVP. Best Player on the best team. His stats speak for themself. He is the general on the floor and plays tough D. I am not arguing against anybody else for MVP, I just think that CB has had an MVP season.

And if the Dallas fans can homer for their guy, I will do a little homering for my Buff!!

Clockwork Orange · 04-10-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Nowhere did I claim that the Dallas players were the only ones who get overlooked. You might want to look at that post again. In comparison to the other players listed, there is no argument at all that Dirk is more unfairly criticized.

The NBA will release it's all-NBA team in the near future and Dirk will be the 1st team forward for the second consecutive year. Is it common for a 1st team all-NBA player to recieve far more criticism than public support? The media doesnt like Dirk enough to find out why he's one of the best players of his generation.

Where is all this criticism of Nowitzki you keep talking about? Seriously, he doesn't get hyped like Lebron or Kobe, but I don't see where he gets railed on as you're claiming. Do you have anything to substantiate this claim?

You've already rationalized with yourself that the only reason that Nowitzki won't win the MVP award is media bias. If you're going to base your opinion on that, there's no point in even debating the subject further. You've got your excuses lined up and naturally they have to be rooted in some underhanded plot to keep a Mavs player down.

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

As was mentioned earlier, Chauncey Billups is the MVP. Best Player on the best team. His stats speak for themself. He is the general on the floor and plays tough D. I am not arguing against anybody else for MVP, I just think that CB has had an MVP season.

And if the Dallas fans can homer for their guy, I will do a little homering for my Buff!!

Billups is a great player but he alone does'nt stand out on the Pistons like the other guys on their respective teams. This is why he won't win.
Sad, but True

epicSocialism4tw · 04-10-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

As was mentioned earlier, Chauncey Billups is the MVP. Best Player on the best team. His stats speak for themself. He is the general on the floor and plays tough D. I am not arguing against anybody else for MVP, I just think that CB has had an MVP season.

And if the Dallas fans can homer for their guy, I will do a little homering for my Buff!!

I am supporting Dirk's cause certainly, but you cant dismiss the whole case to homerism. Dirk has a legit case, and there has yet to be a cogent argument composed on this thread for anyone but Dirk.

I think that Billups is deserving too, but how about some comparisons? How about some in depth analysis? We have alot of posts on this thread in support of one player or another, but very few of them contain decent arguments.

rbackfactory80 · 04-10-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother love

Billups is a great player but he alone does'nt stand out on the Pistons like the other guys on their respective teams. This is why he won't win.
Sad, but True

Yeah lets give it to Nash again whose team will be one and done.

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother love

Billups is a great player but he alone does'nt stand out on the Pistons like the other guys on their respective teams. This is why he won't win.
Sad, but True

I guess what I was trying to say is whether Billups wins it or not, he's an MVP type player. If I had a vote I would give it to him.

epicSocialism4tw · 04-10-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

I guess what I was trying to say is whether Billups wins it or not, he's an MVP type player. If I had a vote I would give it to him.

Why would you choose him over the other candidates?

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:25 PM

The real sad part is Nash made all of the Suns better players. When he was in Dallas he couldn't make Nowitzki any better.

Seriously though Nowitzki is a great player but he needs to do it on the biggest stage possible, the playoffs. Until he has that great moment in the playoffs he won't seriously be considered for MVP. He could also get better on defense.

TheManeMan · 04-10-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

I know that it's along shot for Dirk to win it. But it's not because he doesnt deserve it. Look at the facts. They support Dirk. Use the same arguments that you use against Dirk to set against Nash. You will come away with either proof that you are biased, or the conclusion that Dirk is more deserving under that set of parameters.

Honestly, im not biased toward anybody...I dont have a favorite team in the NBA...I just have the NBA package on DirecTV and watch NBA from 5 to 10 every day...I understand that Dirk has played on of his best years in the NBA...but, that doesnt categorize him as a leading canidate for the MVP im sorry...I'm not biased toward anybody...I like all sorts of players and follows all the teams...

Nash is the MVP...Kobe is 2nd...wait until the day it happens...that's what you'll see...

rbackfactory80 · 04-10-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Why would you choose him over the other candidates?

A better Question is Dallas is down 3 games to two against the Spurs with 5 seconds left in a 104, 102 ballgame. Who do you want to take the last shot. If the team was Detroit, the answer would be easy but it is tougher when thinking about Dallas. I think being clutch and not just putting up big numbers is important when deciding the MVP.

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

I am supporting Dirk's cause certainly, but you cant dismiss the whole case to homerism. Dirk has a legit case, and there has yet to be a cogent argument composed on this thread for anyone but Dirk.

I think that Billups is deserving too, but how about some comparisons? How about some in depth analysis? We have alot of posts on this thread in support of one player or another, but very few of them contain decent arguments.

How in the world do you compare a 1 and a 4? Chauncey Billups

He has MVP #s, you can click the link to see each ranking. He's an MVP. As I stated before, I am not saying Dirk is not, but if I had a vote CB is the MVP. Period.

Rulon Velvet Jones · 04-10-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother love

The real sad part is Nash made all of the Suns better players. When he was in Dallas he couldn't make Nowitzki any better.

Seriously though Nowitzki is a great player but he needs to do it on the biggest stage possible, the playoffs. Until he has that great moment in the playoffs he won't seriously be considered for MVP. He could also get better on defense.

Playoff performance matters little when the award is given out before the playoffs even begin.

For Nash in Phoenix v. Nash in Dallas - it was Nelly's system, not necessarily the player.

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Why would you choose him over the other candidates?

Post 153

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

Playoff performance matters little when the award is given out before the playoffs even begin.

For Nash in Phoenix v. Nash in Dallas - it was Nelly's system, not necessarily the player.

I realize that but when you think of a guy like Kobe you think of a clutch guy down the stretch in the biggest games possible. You can't really say that about Dirk.

TheManeMan · 04-10-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

It would be a pleasure never to hear from you on this argument anyway. You've offered nothing and your knowledge of the NBA is sophomoric. Way to go right to namecalling when you lose on your point.

Oh man...

You've offered nothing either...you waffled on the first 2 pages of the thread..and done nothing but, shoot down other peoples opinions on why Dirk shouldnt be the MVP...Llama is the only one who's debated in Dirks favor and worked his arguements well...you've done NOTHING...

My knowledge of the NBA stands as this... the 2006 MVP this year is not Dirk Nowitzki...

name calling would be somethign along the lines of me calling you a fag...or a stupid ****ing ignorant bastard...I simply called you an idiot...

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

Oh man...

You've offered nothing either...you waffled on the first 2 pages of the thread..and done nothing but, shoot down other peoples opinions on why Dirk shouldnt be the MVP...Llama is the only one who's debated in Dirks favor and worked his arguements well...you've done NOTHING...

My knowledge of the NBA stands as this... the 2006 MVP this year is not Dirk Nowitzki...

name calling would be somethign along the lines of me calling you a fag...or a stupid ****ing ignorant bastard...I simply called you an idiot...

Man there is a whole lot of arguing for an award that really means nothing!

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother love

I realize that but when you think of a guy like Kobe you think of a clutch guy down the stretch in the biggest games possible. You can't really say that about Dirk.

Clutch is pretty damn arbitrary...Melo has hit 7 game winners this season but he's no where near being and MVP canidate.

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

Clutch is pretty damn arbitrary...Melo has hit 7 game winners this season but he's no where near being and MVP canidate.

Yeah but shouldn't a guy who is the MVP hit a big shot once in his career!

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother love

Yeah but shouldn't a guy who is the MVP hit a big shot once in his career!

Chauncey has hit plenty of 'em!!

In the Finals no less!!

brother love · 04-10-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

Chauncey has hit plenty of 'em!!

In the Finals no less!!

I pick him over Dirk.

Billups is damn tough!

Rulon Velvet Jones · 04-10-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

Basically it comes down to this...take Nash of the Suns they win 25 games max...not even close to the playoffs...

take Dirk off the Mavs, they win 40+ games, and a chance to go onto the playoffs...

M - Most
V - Valuable
P - Player

You mean like this hardhitting proposal?

Who is the 2nd best player on the Suns? Shawn Marion.
Who is the 2nd best on the Mavs? Josh Howard.

Take Nash and Dirk away and Marion and Howard propel to being the best player on their respective teams. You still think the Suns would only win 25 and the Mavs would still get 40+?

epicSocialism4tw · 04-10-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master___Pain

Chauncey has hit plenty of 'em!!

In the Finals no less!!

Dirk has hit plenty of them too. You new guys to the argument should go back and look at the thread. We've already covered this issue pretty well.

Dirk is the best of the MVP candidates according to nba.com crunchtime stats and 82games.com's buzzer-beater stat that was introduced into the argument.

Here's what happened in the Mavs and Spurs' biggest game of the season (from AP):

SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- Dirk Nowitzki's big second half moved the Dallas Mavericks closer to first place in the Western Conference.

Nowitzki scored 19 of his 30 points in the second half to lead the Mavericks over the Spurs 92-86 in a showdown of the top two teams in the Western Conference on Friday night.

"Obviously, the difference in the game was Dirk," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "He put on an MVP performance. We just couldn't stop him. He took it away."

Master___Pain · 04-10-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Dirk has hit plenty of them too. You new guys to the argument should go back and look at the thread. We've already covered this issue pretty well.

You bit hard on brother loves bait, not mine

And I never said Dirk had not hit a big shot. You may want to actually respond and quote the person that attemped to say he'd not hit a big hot.

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04-10-2006, 04:15 PM	#153
Master___Pain Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Springs Posts: 4,605 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rock Hoover	As was mentioned earlier, Chauncey Billups is the MVP. Best Player on the best team. His stats speak for themself. He is the general on the floor and plays tough D. I am not arguing against anybody else for MVP, I just think that CB has had an MVP season. And if the Dallas fans can homer for their guy, I will do a little homering for my Buff!!

04-10-2006, 04:25 PM	#160
brother love Pro Bowler Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: lancaster, pa Posts: 523	The real sad part is Nash made all of the Suns better players. When he was in Dallas he couldn't make Nowitzki any better. Seriously though Nowitzki is a great player but he needs to do it on the biggest stage possible, the playoffs. Until he has that great moment in the playoffs he won't seriously be considered for MVP. He could also get better on defense.