N B A M V P

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Lets see some facts. That's nothing but opinion.

8.9 rebounds isnt considered rebounding? He cant defend? Have you even seen him play over the past two seasons? He's not Tim Duncan out there, but he's not Steve Nash either.

Dirk averages 26.6 ppg and 8.9 boards. Those are MVP numbers.

You are essentially saying that the MVP is contingent on statistics alone. I would argue that statistics are only one indicator. Another indicator is wins. Right now Dirk is the leading candidate IMO, because he is the best performer on one of the only legit contenders.

Popovich on Dirk's impact in the last game where Dallas went into SA missing 3 significant contributors (paraphrased): "The difference in the game was Dirk. We couldnt stop him no matter who we played him with, and he made all of the clutch plays down the stretch."

In Dallas and SA's most important game of the season thus far, Dirk was the difference. Dirk was the MVP. I believe that Pop called him the MVP after that game as well.

Oh thats just special I give you facts with his scoring yet you call it an opinion then you proceed to give me four paragraphs of opinion.

26.6 points per game and 8.9 rebounds are not MVP stats. They are great stats but hardly MVP worthy.

Who the **** cares what Grep Popovich says about Dirk after a game. There have been plenty of coaches that rode Paul Pierce's jock strap saying the is having an MVP season despite playing with the third youngest team in the NBA. Does that make him the MVP? I don't think so.

Shoot you can even compare Dirk's stats to Paul Pierce who is not a MVP canidate and he doesn't even beat him. Paul scores more than Dirt, passes out more assissts and averages 7 rebounds a game while he is 6 inches shorter than him.

And MVPs make their teammates better, I don't see how Dirk does it. He is a scorer, no doubt but he can't pass, block shot, get steals or rebounds. This imaginary quantifiable "defensive impact" that he makes sure as hell doesn't show up on the stat sheet. If you take Dirk off the Mavs, they are still a playoff team. If you put Dirk on the Celtics and remove Paul Pierce they still don't make the playoffs. Because what does Dirk give you that Paul doesn't? Leadership? Do you remember Dirk throwing the hissy fit on the court in the playoffs last season when Terry didn't rotate over to the shooter. Thats not a leader, thats a b****.

[TheManeMan]

Originally Posted by angryllama

I still love Nash, and always wish for him to do well. You cant help but like the guy. He came into form while he was a Mav and we'll remember him as a Mav. He's still one of us to some fans.

I just dont think that Nash is the MVP. Nash has put his team into the playoffs, yes. His team really isnt a threat to do anything when they get there though. It's the same old thing that Mav fans saw for years. All offense all the time. Dallas on the other hand has had a much better regular season and has shown the ability to beat the Spurs and the Pistons convincingly. Dallas is a contender and could still end up with the #1 seed.

People are quick to label Dirk as a bad defender and use that to somehow illegitemize his candidacy, but Nash is a far poorer defender of the two. When he was here in Dallas, we thought that we would never win a championship with Nash because he couldnt keep the oppoisng point from going off on a career performance.

I understand that...just wanted to poke at you guys

The fact of the matter is regarding your 2nd paragraph...that the MVP isnt an award based on your playoff outcome...its a season award...which I'm totally against...but, since Davd Stern hands the award to the deserving player before the playoffs start...it doesnt matter if Nash and the Suns are one and done or lose in the Finals...same with Dirk...and your 3rd paragraph has nothing to do with me cuz I didnt knock Dirk's Defense...

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Gonzo, you lose all cred when you compare today's Mavericks to the Celtics.

[DarkHorse30]

Nash

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Oh thats just special I give you facts with his scoring yet you call it an opinion then you proceed to give me four paragraphs of opinion.

26.6 points per game and 8.9 rebounds are not MVP stats. They are great stats but hardly MVP worthy.

Who the **** cares what Grep Popovich says about Dirk after a game. There have been plenty of coaches that rode Paul Pierce's jock strap saying the is having an MVP season despite playing with the third youngest team in the NBA. Does that make him the MVP? I don't think so.

Shoot you can even compare Dirk's stats to Paul Pierce who is not a MVP canidate and he doesn't even beat him. Paul scores more than Dirt, passes out more assissts and averages 7 rebounds a game while he is 6 inches shorter than him.

And MVPs make their teammates better, I don't see how Dirk does it. He is a scorer, no doubt but he can't pass, block shot, get steals or rebounds. This imaginary quantifiable "defensive impact" that he makes sure as hell doesn't show up on the stat sheet. If you take Dirk off the Mavs, they are still a playoff team. If you put Dirk on the Celtics and remove Paul Pierce they still don't make the playoffs. Because what does Dirk give you that Paul doesn't? Leadership? Do you remember Dirk throwing the hissy fit on the court in the playoffs last season when Terry didn't rotate over to the shooter. Thats not a leader, thats a b****.

Someone really doesnt like Dirk.

The Mavs lead the NBA in offensive efficiency. This is their strength. This is why they win. The reason why Dallas leads the NBA in this stat is because Dirk severely disrupts the opposing offense. He scores on players at every position and does so at will in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. Dallas will post up Dirk in the high post at the elbow and let him create for cutters, get to the line, or create his own shot. Dirk is the point forward as Duncan is and he operates out of the high post. This allows the Mavs to match up a small forward (like Howard) on a center or a PF, and a center or guard to rotate under the bucket when they double Dirk on the elbow. That offense is designed to let Dirk cause loads of problems.

How has Dirk responded? He has become the most efficient and consistent fourth quarter performer in the league and has used that to lead his team to 58 wins. He has led his team back from huge deficits at least 4 times I can remember (PHX, DEN, MEM, CLE,...) by destroying the opposing defense, and has been the best player in the NBA in the last 5 minutes of the game. He contributes key rebounds, blocks, steals, assists, and points in this period.

[ludo21]

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

I understand that...just wanted to poke at you guys

The fact of the matter is regarding your 2nd paragraph...that the MVP isnt an award based on your playoff outcome...its a season award...which I'm totally against...but, since Davd Stern hands the award to the deserving player before the playoffs start...it doesnt matter if Nash and the Suns are one and done or lose in the Finals...same with Dirk...and your 3rd paragraph has nothing to do with me cuz I didnt knock Dirk's Defense...

exxxxactly!!!!

Plus Suns will beat the 7 seed, and id wager that they will make it to the conf. Finals as well.

Is that not doing well in the playoffs?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

Gonzo, you lose all cred when you compare today's Mavericks to the Celtics.

They both have star white guys on the team. I think that that's probably where his analysis comes from.

[RhymesayersDU]

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

Look up clutch shooting and you'll see that Dirk is far and away the best in the NBA this season.

Uh... no, he's not.

http://82games.com/random23.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

This just shows me that you dont understand how Dirk affects the game. You are using center statistics to describe a guy who revolutionized the PF position for his generation.

Revolutionized the PF position for his generation? WTF are you smoking? How in the hell does a seven footer without a back to the basket game revolutionize the position when Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace were already ripping up the league when Dirk was a rookie. You make no sense.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by ludo21

exxxxactly!!!!

Plus Suns will beat the 7 seed, and id wager that they will make it to the conf. Finals as well.

Is that not doing well in the playoffs?

Well, you can attribute that to the nature of the seeding system as much as anything. PHX without a post presence has little chance of hanging with SA or Dallas in a series. I think that you have to consider that when comparing how good the teams are. Dallas is better than PHX. Both in the regular season standings and in the projective playoff results.

[ludo21]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

Uh... no, he's not.

http://82games.com/random23.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

nice find there.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

Uh... no, he's not.

http://82games.com/random23.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

pwned

[ludo21]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Well, you can attribute that to the nature of the seeding system as much as anything. PHX without a post presence has little chance of hanging with SA or Dallas in a series. I think that you have to consider that when comparing how good the teams are. Dallas is better than PHX. Both in the regular season standings and in the projective playoff results.

We will see Playoffs will tell, Dallas hasnt gotten too far in the playoffs either, so it will be interesting

I still say its a rematch from last year. (Finals)

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

Revolutionized the PF position for his generation? WTF are you smoking? How in the hell does a seven footer without a back to the basket game revolutionize the position when Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace were already ripping up the league when Dirk was a rookie. You make no sense.

Niether of those guys are anywhere near the perimeter player that Dirk is, and have nowhere near the ball skills. You should do a little more reading.

Rasheed Wallace isnt even in Dirk's class.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Well, you can attribute that to the nature of the seeding system as much as anything. PHX without a post presence has little chance of hanging with SA or Dallas in a series. I think that you have to consider that when comparing how good the teams are. Dallas is better than PHX. Both in the regular season standings and in the projective playoff results.

now we're projecting playoff results to get an mvp? wth.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by angryllama

The Mavs lead the NBA in offensive efficiency. This is their strength. This is why they win. The reason why Dallas leads the NBA in this stat is because Dirk severely disrupts the opposing offense.

WTF? You still don't make any sense.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

Uh... no, he's not.

http://82games.com/random23.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

Check out NBA.com's crunch time statistics which computes blocks, steals, assists, points, rebounds, etc. Dirk has been at 1 or 2 on that list all season long, and has been at #1 for almost the entire year.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

WTF? You still don't make any sense.

Are you still posting on this thread?

[TheManeMan]

Originally Posted by RhymesayersDU

Uh... no, he's not.

http://82games.com/random23.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

Wanna see something nasty...look at the 2nd link...then look at the entire NBA's (League Wide) FG pct...

29%...thats f'n gross!

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

Wanna see something nasty...look at the 2nd link...then look at the entire NBA's (League Wide) FG pct...

29%...thats f'n gross!

a lot of game winning attempts are very high difficulty shots.

[GonzoLays]

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

Wanna see something nasty...look at the 2nd link...then look at the entire NBA's (League Wide) FG pct...

29%...thats f'n gross!

Dirt "clutch" Nitwitzksi isn't much better at 33% while shooting 60% from the free throw line. Yea, he is the guy I want at the end of the game taking the final shot. He really steps up in the clutch.

[TheManeMan]

Originally Posted by yavoon

a lot of game winning attempts are very high difficulty shots.

no **** sherlock...29% of those shots is still horrible...

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by TheManeMan

no **** sherlock...29% of those shots is still horrible...

whatever u say huckleberry

[Casper Bronco]

Nobody wants to admit it but there is only one clear cut winner. KOBE BRYANT. There's noone even close. Nash has Marion who has had an insane season. Bryant doesn't have anyone.

[TheManeMan]

huckleberry... nice one...