The new American police state

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/2006021...canpolicestate

NEW YORK -- "When I saw that the neoconservative response to 9/11 was to turn a stateless war against terrorism into military attacks on Muslim states, I realized that the Bush administration was committing a strategic blunder with open-ended disastrous consequences for the United States that, in the end, would destroy Bush, the Republican Party and the conservative movement."

I agree with that, but I didn't write it. No liberal did.

The author is Paul Craig Roberts, one of the creators and champions of "supply-side economics," the great conservative cause of the early 1980s. As a Wall Street Journal editorial writer and then assistant secretary of the treasury under President Reagan, Roberts was a true believer and an effective advocate. His political stance is pretty well summed up in the title of his newest book: "The Tyranny of Good Intentions: How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice."

Roberts is a syndicated columnist now, an honorable profession, and a fellow at the Hoover Institution, a temple of talented political thinkers devoted to all the Right things, beginning with Reaganism. His essay, "My Epiphany: From Reaganaut to Anti-War Radical," is, as they say these days, sweeping the Internet. (You can read the text on VDARE.com, the Web site of the Lexington Institute.)

Roberts begins by emphasizing that he does not believe he is betraying old friends or old causes, saying that he never considered himself a slave to party or ideology. Apparently not. He has been writing strong stuff:

"Americans have forgotten what it takes to remain free. Instead, every ideology, every group is determined to use government to advance its agenda. ... The United States is undergoing a coup against the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and democracy itself. The 'liberal press' has been co-opted. ... Media concentration permitted in the 1990s has put news and opinion in the hands of a few corporate executives who do not dare risk their broadcasting licenses by getting on the wrong side of government, or their advertising revenues by becoming 'controversial.'"

He talks of "years of illegal spying" giving the White House the power of "blackmail" over media and political opposition. I might not use the same words, but I do believe that we, the people, are in jeopardy: New spying and eavesdropping technologies and their delighted abuse by intelligence-gathering organizations and their political masters are turning the United States into an emerging police state.

"Homeland Security and the Patriot Act are not our protectors," he adds. "Americans need to understand that many interests are using the 'war on terror' to achieve their agendas. The Federalist Society is using the war on terror to achieve its agenda of concentrating power in the executive and packing the Supreme Court to this effect. The neoconservatives are using the war to achieve their agenda of Israeli hegemony in the Middle East. Police agencies are using the war to make themselves less accountable. Republicans are using the war to achieve one-party rule ..."

"Debate is dead," Roberts concludes. "One certainty prevails. Bush is committing America to a path of violence and coercion, and he is getting away with it."

I asked Roberts what has been the reaction since these words were published 10 days ago.

"I have had thousands of e-mails, about 99.9 percent favorable, full of praise from Democrats and Republicans alike," he answered. "They say the country is desperate for a straight talker. ... People want to hear more. People want me to run for the Senate or for president."

I, for one, would consider voting for him, though I would hope he will finally give up on supply-side theory.

[clarker]

Liberal nutball. Explain to me how anyone feels like there in a police state? How are their rights of free speech are being taken away. BTW, LABF, every anti-Bush post or Bush is Hitler cartoon or anything else you post proves what a crock all this Bush has us in a police state, taking away our free speech takes that you libs go off on is.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

Liberal nutball. Explain to me how anyone feels like there in a police state? How are their rights of free speech are being taken away. BTW, LABF, every anti-Bush post or Bush is Hitler cartoon or anything else you post proves what a crock all this Bush has us in a police state, taking away our free speech takes that you libs go off on is.

Um, no, moron.

If you had actually read the article before you knee-jerked, you would have noticed that it was written by a hardcore right-winger.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Red state, meet police state: Federal worker in Boise hassled for creative anti-war expression on his car

http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/...d=oid%3A158729

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Um, no, moron.

If you had actually read the article before you knee-jerked, you would have noticed that it was written by a hardcore right-winger.

I don't care who wrote it, my post is more of reaction to you crazy loon. But it sounds to me like the guy has crossed into crazy liberalnut case mode.

Every time you b**** about Bush taking away our rights and post your Bush is Hitler cartoons you disprove your whole point. And your too dumb to understand that.

I mean if if Hitler had the internet in 1939 and there was a guy posting the things about him that you post about Bush, do you think you would still be free or even alive. Hell, no.

In fact as long as you post the crap that you post, I feel safe. When you quit posting, then I will get scared.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

I don't care who wrote it, my post is more of reaction to you crazy loon.

Every time you b**** about Bush taking away our rights and post your Bush is Hitler cartoons you disprove your whole point. And your too dumb to understand that.

Another moronic "argument."

Just because all of our rights haven't been taken away doesn't mean our rights aren't slowly but surely eroding, and it doesn't mean elements of a police state aren't being put in place.

If you plan to wait until it's too late to get worried, then that only demonstrates what a bush ostrich you are.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Another moronic "argument."

Just because all of our rights haven't been taken away doesn't mean our rights aren't slowly but surely eroding, and it doesn't mean elements of a police state aren't being put in place.

If you plan to wait until it's too late to get worried, then that only demonstrates what a bush ostrich you are.

I can do everything I could before Bush took office. Everything. Longer lines at the airport is the only thing I can think of that is different.

Your a nutball who disproves his own paranoid fantasies with ever stupid cartoon you post.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

Your a nutball who disproves his own paranoid fantasies with ever stupid cartoon you post.

You really are a major league idiot, aren't you?

The subject here is not a 'cartoon' - it's an article (written by a right-winger) which explains how our rights are slipping away.

So far, you have yet to address one single issue presented by the author.

But that's consistent with your track record as a reactionary Bush lemming, isn't it?

[clarker]

You can still have problems with Bush like selling the ports to the UAE or Aub Grahb(SP?) and still know that were are far from living in a police state.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

You can still have problems with Bush like selling the ports to the UAE or Aub Grahb(SP?) and still know that were are far from living in a police state.

The point (as the article explains) is that we are headed in that direction.

If you had the reading comprehension of a third grader, you would get it.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

You really are a major league idiot, aren't you?

The subject here is not a 'cartoon' - it's an article (written by a right-winger) which explains how our rights are slipping away.

So far, you have yet to address one single issue presented by the author.

But that's consistent with your track record as a reactionary Bush lemming, isn't it?

If you have free speech, you can speak out.

It is the most important right we have. And in no way has it been damaged by Bush. That is not lemming for anyone. That is not being a parinoid freak, like you.

And I am more worried about Cell phone companies selling my cell phone records to people than I am about wire tapping.


That is not saying Bush is perfect, is far from it. But you go overboard and I think your a little nuts. I mean anyone disagrees with you and call them a ton of names and just go off the deep end. I think they nee to come with the straight jacket for you, before someone gets hurt.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

I can do everything I could before Bush took office. Everything. Longer lines at the airport is the only thing I can think of that is different.

Your a nutball who disproves his own paranoid fantasies with ever stupid cartoon you post.

Guess again , I have seen a huge change in what I can or cannot do , take Hazmat endorsement on your CDL for example , I used to carry haz mat , now it isnt worth it , I wont have Haz mat , been to a port latly ? i take it you havent , huge change there , these are not minor things ............

[Spider]

Hey clarker when is the last time someone went through your personal stuff including your clothes in the name of the patriot act ? been 3 weeks for me ..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

If you have free speech, you can speak out.

It is the most important right we have. And in no way has it been damaged by Bush. That is not lemming for anyone. That is not being a parinoid freak, like you.

If you are going to sit there and deny all the ways BushCo has attacked free speech over the last five years, then you are obviously in total denial when it comes to the facts and the record.

But that's par for the course for a BushCo Kool-Aid slurper like you.

Originally Posted by clarker

I mean anyone disagrees with you and call them a ton of names and just go off the deep end.

You are the one who initiated the name-calling here, jackass.

Go back and read your posts on this thread.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Hey clarker when is the last time someone went through your personal stuff including your clothes in the name of the patriot act ? been 3 weeks for me ..........

I got searched at the airport pretty good once. Seems pretty reasonable.

If you don't mind me asking about when you were searched, I mean it could be a reasonable thing and it might not be.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

And I am more worried about Cell phone companies selling my cell phone records to people than I am about wire tapping.

But I thought repubs like you were all about "the rule of law?"

Wait - that's only applicable to Democratic presidents who get BJs - I forgot.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If you are going to sit there and deny all the ways BushCo has attacked free speech over the last five years, then you are obviously in total denial when it comes to the facts and the record.

But that's par for the course for a BushCo Kool-Aid slurper like you.



You are the one who initiated the name-calling here, jackass.

Go back and read your posts on this thread.

I didn't call you a liberal nut ball, I called the author. But your right he was a right wing nutball.

I said your cartoons were stupid and they are. I said most of your posts are stupid and are the same thing over and over and over again. And I do think you have some pretty parinoid fantasies running around in your mellon.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

But I thought repubs like you were all about "the rule of law?"

Wait - that's only applicable to Democratic presidents who get BJs - I forgot.

I could care less about Clinton, unless I know I can take a dig at crazy nutball like yourself and get you all pissed off. That is funny to me.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

I got searched at the airport pretty good once. Seems pretty reasonable.

If you don't mind me asking about when you were searched, I mean it could be a reasonable thing and it might not be.

Ingleside Texas Dupont plant , loading plywood .......... but it is on port ......
they went through every compartment in my truck , took out my clothes , see when i am in my Rig , this is my home , this where work , sleep eat ..... It is very intrusive to have someone go through it , I dont expect you to understand , but it is bothersome

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Ingleside Texas Dupont plant , loading plywood .......... but it is on port ......
they went through every compartment in my truck , took out my clothes , see when i am in my Rig , this is my home , this where work , sleep eat ..... It is very intrusive to have someone go through it , I dont expect you to understand , but it is bothersome

I do understand what a pain in the a** that must be. Not kidding. It would get on my nerves too, but that doesn't mean it isn't unreasonable.

I mean Depont makes chemicals do they not. Might be a place they would want to make sure is secure. I know that your Rig is your home, but it is also part of your work and that kind is different than a person in purley private home.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

I didn't call you a liberal nut ball, I called the author. But your right he was a right wing nutball.

Which only proves that you knee-jerked before you bothered to read the article.

But this is consistent with your habit of giving BushCo the benefit of the doubt before you know the facts.

Originally Posted by clarker

I said your cartoons were stupid and they are. I said most of your posts are stupid and are the same thing over and over and over again. And I do think you have some pretty parinoid fantasies running around in your mellon.

You belong to that willfully ignorant fringe minority on the far-right who still defend the monument to corruption and criminality that is BushCo, so I will take your judgments with several grains of salt.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Which only proves that you knee-jerked before you bothered to read the article.

But this is consistent with your habit of giving BushCo the benefit of the doubt before you know the facts.



You belong to that willfully ignorant fringe minority on the far-right who still defend the monument to corruption and criminality that is BushCo, so I will take your judgments with several grains of salt.

And you belong to the crazy nutball, parinoid, two hours away from the looney bin. But it is always fun to rile you up on a slow day. By now

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by clarker

I could care less about Clinton, unless I know I can take a dig at crazy nutball like yourself and get you all pissed off. That is funny to me.

With Dim Son's approval numbers at 38%, it must take a lot of hard work (read: cognitive dissonance) on your part to write the majority of Americans off as "nutballs."

But that's what bush sheep do, I suppose.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

I do understand what a pain in the a** that must be. Not kidding. It would get on my nerves too, but that doesn't mean it isn't unreasonable.

but before the Patriot act , it never would have happened and this is mt meaning , you stated that nothing has realy changed , it has ,and not just with that either , I crossed over the boarder in El paso , getting back in was alot easier then going to Lees ranch colemine in San Mateo , or thunder basin in Gilette .......... there are changes , and no they are not reasonable ...they invited me into the port to haul material , I didnt invite myself ......

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

but before the Patriot act , it never would have happened and this is mt meaning , you stated that nothing has realy changed , it has ,and not just with that either , I crossed over the boarder in El paso , getting back in was alot easier then going to Lees ranch colemine in San Mateo , or thunder basin in Gilette .......... there are changes , and no they are not reasonable ...they invited me into the port to haul material , I didnt invite myself ......

Well, see we are going to have to disagree. I don't think Bush is doing enough on the boarders. But Bush and Fox are too close.

I'm sorry, but just that things are not as convenant for you and I get irritated everytime I go to the airport, but I understand why we have to stand in line longer.

I mean I just don't see how that is unreasonable. I think if it gets to the point where we have to have papers just to go from state to state, then I think we have went to far.