Coaching changes - The Orange Mane

elsid13 · 12-03-2005, 07:11 PM

[B]
From Yahoo Sport Section

Notice the dig at Denver at the end.[/B

GOLDBERG: Mariucci First of Many Firings By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer
Sat Dec 3, 1:18 PM ET

Steve Mariucci is gone. A half-dozen or more NFL coaches will follow as soon as their seasons end.

The law of averages makes that almost inevitable.

That's because there were only three new coaches this season, fewest since 1988, when there were two. The average number of changes per year since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 is 5.9, so nine would have to go just to get to that average over the 2004 and 2005 seasons.

That probably won't happen, but it's possible because coaches are the first to go in all sports, even when the blame lies with higher-ups. Is Mariucci, for example, most responsible for the Lions' 15-28 record during his tenure? Or is it the Ford family that owns the Lions? Or team president Matt Millen, under whom the Lions are 20-55?

The biggest percentage change was in 1971, when 11 of the 26 teams then in the league had new coaches. There also were 11 in 1997, when the league had 30 teams.

In fact, the only safe place for an NFL coach seems to be Pittsburgh, which has had just two since 1969, when Chuck Noll was hired. He retired after the 1991 season, Bill Cowher was hired and survived 7-9 and 6-10 seasons in 1998 and 1999 and a 6-10 year again in 2003.

So patience can work.

That's one reason Tennessee's Jeff Fisher, who got his job 10 games into the 1994 season when the Titans were the Houston Oilers, seems safe despite a 3-8 record. General manager Floyd Reese and owner Bud Adams know their team is losing because they had to cut a slew of veterans for salary cap reasons.

They also remember Fisher helped build the Titans into a Super Bowl team (1999) and kept them in contention for the next four years. And if Fisher gets on the market, he will be snapped up immediately by someone — maybe even Millen.

Here's a rundown:

___

GONE (besides Mariucci)

_Dom Capers, Houston. At 1-10, he's the obvious fall guy, even though the front office (GM Charley Casserly) has to take blame for a building program gone awry. "I put the blinders on and try to do everything that I can that's going to give this football team the best chance of moving forward," Capers says. "If I get caught up in all of that, it isn't going to help us, and so I don't."

_Mike Sherman, Green Bay. He was stripped of personnel duties after last season and he's 2-9. Brett Favre has said he's considering retirement if Sherman goes. Now he's hinted he'd like Mariucci, who was the Packers' QB coach when Favre arrived in 1992.

PROBABLY GONE

_Brian Billick, Baltimore. It's been five years since his Super Bowl win and the Ravens are regressing. Everyone is hurt, Jamal Lewis is underperforming and Kyle Boller is a bust. Green Bay, Detroit or Minnesota might be interested in Billick, who also can get a television job, a traditional spot for coaches waiting to get another opportunity in the league.

_Norv Turner, Oakland. Al Davis tends to bring in guys who are better as coordinators. Then he gets impatient when they don't win. There are more problems here than Turner — such as no real GM between Davis and the coach.

_Mike Martz, St. Louis. He's on medical leave and is suggesting he may want to come back. It's hard to see that as long as Jay Zygmunt is the team's director of football operations. Like Turner, Martz might be best as a coordinator, which is what he was when the Rams won a Super Bowl with his offense.

ON THE BUBBLE

_Mike Tice, Minnesota. He was gone until the Vikings won four straight and might be kept if he makes the playoffs. But remember that Zygi Wilf, the new owner, has promised to fix the team's image problem and Tice is part of that. He presumably had nothing to do with the hijinks on the Lake Minnetonka boat ride, but he was fined $100,000 by the NFL for scalping Super Bowl tickets.

MAYBE

_Dick Vermeil, Kansas City. His choice. He's 69 and has talked about retiring. Best guess it that he'd do it after a successful season, which means the playoffs.

_Joe Gibbs, Washington. Another possible retirement. Things haven't gone anywhere near as well as expected during his second tenure (he's 11-16). He says he'll stick it out, but it's hard to win when Dan "The Fan" Snyder lets go of the likes of Champ Bailey, Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot.

_Herman Edwards, New York Jets. He can stay if he wants, but there are persistent rumors that he could go to the Chiefs if Vermeil leaves. He began his post-playing career there, and is close to team president Carl Peterson. When Edwards is asked about the Chiefs, he doesn't completely deny it.

_Jim Haslett, New Orleans. Probably gets another year because he's had so much to contend with and the front office is in turmoil. But he needs a good 2006; the only consistent thing about the Saints during his tenure is inconsistency.

SUCCESSORS

The first name on everyone's list is Charlie Weis, his 10-year extension with Notre Dame notwithstanding. Unless it's Pete Carroll, who was 34-33 in stints with the Jets and Patriots. If Gibbs leaves, Snyder would jump all over either (and get turned down).

Weis' name even comes up as Tom Coughlin's eventual successor with the Giants, even though Coughlin is very secure. Still, teamed with New England personnel guru Scott Pioli, Jersey guy Weis might be attracted to the Meadowlands in a few years, especially with Eli Manning there.

Mariucci could land in Green Bay, and Martz and Billick might get other jobs. Even though the Baltimore offense stinks, Wilf, a lifelong Giants fan, is said to be interested in Jim Fassel, their former coach, who is now the Ravens' offensive coordinator.

Hot coordinators: Ron Rivera, defense, Bears; Brad Childress, offense, Eagles; Tim Lewis, defense, Giants; Gregg Williams, defense, Redskins. Lukewarm coordinators: Sean Payton, offense, Cowboys; Donnie Henderson, Jets, defense (down from hot).

Williams was 17-31 as coach in Buffalo, but might get another job (see Belichick, Bill), perhaps with the Redskins if Gibbs re-retires. Lewis was one of the minority candidates who turned down Millen's request to interview when the Lions hired Mariucci. He also played for Green Bay.

DIRTY DOZEN

The top six and bottom six teams based on current level of play:

1. Indianapolis (11-0). Dungy might be relieved by a loss.

2. Denver (9-2). Nowhere near Indy's level.

3. Chicago (8-3). Defense. See Ron Rivera, above.

4. Seattle (9-2). Even Holmgren concedes he's getting breaks this season he never got before.

5. Kansas City (7-4). Seem to be jelling.

6. New York Giants (7-4). If Seahawks are fourth, the Giants deserve no worse than sixth for outplaying them.

27. Arizona (3-8). Neil Rackers actually missed a field-goal attempt last week.

28. New York Jets (2-9). Defense is crumbling under weight of bad offense.

29. Detroit (4-7). What a pitiful Thanksgiving.

30. Green Bay (2-9). Alas, poor Brett.

31. San Francisco (2-9). Alex Smith tries to restart his career.

32. Houston (1-10). Sigh ...

Copyright © 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
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Sassy · 12-03-2005, 07:28 PM

2. Denver (9-2). Nowhere near Indy's level

Paste that one in the locker room boys!

NFLBRONCO · 12-03-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy

2. Denver (9-2). Nowhere near Indy's level

Paste that one in the locker room boys!

I agree with this honestly Indy is the only team I do not think we can beat in playoffs.

Borks147 · 12-03-2005, 08:09 PM

Does this mean Kubiak is off the list for Houston's next HC?

ludo21 · 12-03-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

I agree with this honestly Indy is the only team I do not think we can beat in playoffs.

i think we match up VERY well with them.

I agree, locker room material!

HemiEd · 12-03-2005, 09:08 PM

Good article, the Chiefs at number 5.

Kaylore · 12-03-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

but it's hard to win when Dan "The Fan" Snyder lets go of the likes of Champ Bailey, Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot.

But, but they all suck! Right 'Skin fans?

wabbit · 12-03-2005, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aborquez147

Does this mean Kubiak is off the list for Houston's next HC?

No, it doesn't mean Kubiak is out of contention for a head coaching job...Houston or elsewhere, it's just not something the organization appreciates being a point of discussion while the team is competing for it's first division title in a while.

I'm surprised he isn't mentioned in the article as a prospect, because underneath the waves, he has certainly been a hot topic among media types...especially in cities like Houston, Green Bay & even Baltimore.

There has even been talk that he's among several people Al Davis might be interested in talking to, although Davis knows that Mike Shanahan would nip that bud by any means at his disposal.

Assuming Denver makes a nice play-off run, there are many pundits here who believe Kubiak will very likely move on to a HC job after this season.

ludo21 · 12-03-2005, 10:35 PM

Thanks for the info Wabbit, i want Kubes to stay, but if he chooses to move on to a HC spot, mor power to him. I know ill be rooting for him.

Dukes · 12-03-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludo21

I know ill be rooting for him.

I won't be if he goes to Baltimore

ludo21 · 12-03-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&B4Life

I won't be if he goes to Baltimore

there will be some confused people for sure.

i would still want him to do well as long as it dont effect us. I would love for him to go to GB, that would be sweet!

And it would work, ex QB coach/QB, he would be a good candidate to teach yong Rodgers the ropes.

Dukes · 12-03-2005, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludo21

there will be some confused people for sure.

i would still want him to do well as long as it dont effect us. I would love for him to go to GB, that would be sweet!

And it would work, ex QB coach/QB, he would be a good candidate to teach yong Rodgers the ropes.

Yeah I agree with you on him making Rodgers a good QB. He'll probably struggle a couple years as HC though. Best of luck IF in fact he leaves, which I don't want him to. Just don't go to Baltimore Gary!!

Paladin · 12-03-2005, 11:13 PM

If Favre retires next year, that might become a better position for Kubes, or anyone, for that matter. It usually takes 2 years for a team to absorb the new schemes, both D and O. With Favre out, the expectations can be a bit more realistic and give the guy a chance to develop his/her program.

I think Kube's moving on might be good for Denver. Maybe it is time that some new ideas on O would be helpful, even though the basic O will be about the same. But maybe give some different ways of giving Shanahan some rejuvenation.

Odysseus · 12-04-2005, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabbit

Assuming Denver makes a nice play-off run, there are many pundits here who believe Kubiak will very likely move on to a HC job after this season.

Kubiaik's best shot is Texans. He'll get David Carr and a decent team that just lacks focus. Ravens suck. Green Bay would work. It's pretty obvious he is a highly coveted candidate at this point win or lose versus Colts.

Kubiak would do poorly with the Raiders even if he got the shot. I would lose a lot of respect for Kubes if he even looked at the job.

NFLBRONCO · 12-04-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludo21

i think we match up VERY well with them.

I agree, locker room material!

If we had a solid S and another offensive weapon I'd agree but, how can anyone say we match up well when we got hammered both times in playoffs at Indy. I do love this team though and when we play Indy I hope we win but, I'm not expecting it.

frerottenextelway · 12-04-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

how can anyone say we match up well when we got hammered both times in playoffs at Indy.

Darrent Williams is just a tad better than The Roc Alexander, imo.

ludo21 · 12-04-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

If we had a solid S and another offensive weapon I'd agree but, how can anyone say we match up well when we got hammered both times in playoffs at Indy. I do love this team though and when we play Indy I hope we win but, I'm not expecting it.

Manning likes to audible into plays he thinks will work against a D.

So if were in nickel, he will prob check to a run, but i think we are good enough to stop them with just our 2 LB's. And in nickel we will be prepared for the pass as well with 3 cbs out there.

And on O we will pund the rock over and over again and then PA. Indy D wont stop our run. And if they dont get to an early lead, the run will let us control the game.

Got_Moss89? · 12-05-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

But, but they all suck! Right 'Skin fans?

Your catching on!

elpasojoe · 12-05-2005, 12:59 PM

If Gary Kubiak moves on to another team, I would like to officially nominate Bobby Turner, running backs coach, as our new offensive coordinator.

I remember reading somewhere lately that he would consider a change that would help lead him up the coaching ladder. And this way we could keep him with us. Comments?

bronco_diesel · 12-05-2005, 01:50 PM

here is my guess at possible changes next year-

texans - kubiak
green bay - marriucci
raiders - billick
minnesota - martz
baltimore - fassel

denver hires norv turner for OC

Billy Clyde Puckett · 12-05-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco_diesel

denver hires norv turner for OC

I think you've done more acid than your avatar

bronco_diesel · 12-05-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Guy

I think you've done more acid than your avatar

okay, the norv turner was a reach...

but i think the other's are very possible.

Clockwork Orange · 12-05-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco_diesel

okay, the norv turner was a reach...

but i think the other's are very possible.

Billick to Chokeland is a definite possibility since Moss loved him back in his Minnesota days.

Sir Mawn · 12-05-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Billick to Chokeland is a definite possibility since Moss loved him back in his Minnesota days.

talk about a likeable combination....

orinjkrush · 12-05-2005, 04:29 PM

i would love to have mooch as a coordinator, even for a season or two.

12-03-2005, 07:11 PM	#1
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,096	Coaching changes [B] From Yahoo Sport Section Notice the dig at Denver at the end.[/B GOLDBERG: Mariucci First of Many Firings By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer Sat Dec 3, 1:18 PM ET Steve Mariucci is gone. A half-dozen or more NFL coaches will follow as soon as their seasons end. The law of averages makes that almost inevitable. That's because there were only three new coaches this season, fewest since 1988, when there were two. The average number of changes per year since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 is 5.9, so nine would have to go just to get to that average over the 2004 and 2005 seasons. That probably won't happen, but it's possible because coaches are the first to go in all sports, even when the blame lies with higher-ups. Is Mariucci, for example, most responsible for the Lions' 15-28 record during his tenure? Or is it the Ford family that owns the Lions? Or team president Matt Millen, under whom the Lions are 20-55? The biggest percentage change was in 1971, when 11 of the 26 teams then in the league had new coaches. There also were 11 in 1997, when the league had 30 teams. In fact, the only safe place for an NFL coach seems to be Pittsburgh, which has had just two since 1969, when Chuck Noll was hired. He retired after the 1991 season, Bill Cowher was hired and survived 7-9 and 6-10 seasons in 1998 and 1999 and a 6-10 year again in 2003. So patience can work. That's one reason Tennessee's Jeff Fisher, who got his job 10 games into the 1994 season when the Titans were the Houston Oilers, seems safe despite a 3-8 record. General manager Floyd Reese and owner Bud Adams know their team is losing because they had to cut a slew of veterans for salary cap reasons. They also remember Fisher helped build the Titans into a Super Bowl team (1999) and kept them in contention for the next four years. And if Fisher gets on the market, he will be snapped up immediately by someone — maybe even Millen. Here's a rundown: ___ GONE (besides Mariucci) _Dom Capers, Houston. At 1-10, he's the obvious fall guy, even though the front office (GM Charley Casserly) has to take blame for a building program gone awry. "I put the blinders on and try to do everything that I can that's going to give this football team the best chance of moving forward," Capers says. "If I get caught up in all of that, it isn't going to help us, and so I don't." _Mike Sherman, Green Bay. He was stripped of personnel duties after last season and he's 2-9. Brett Favre has said he's considering retirement if Sherman goes. Now he's hinted he'd like Mariucci, who was the Packers' QB coach when Favre arrived in 1992. PROBABLY GONE _Brian Billick, Baltimore. It's been five years since his Super Bowl win and the Ravens are regressing. Everyone is hurt, Jamal Lewis is underperforming and Kyle Boller is a bust. Green Bay, Detroit or Minnesota might be interested in Billick, who also can get a television job, a traditional spot for coaches waiting to get another opportunity in the league. _Norv Turner, Oakland. Al Davis tends to bring in guys who are better as coordinators. Then he gets impatient when they don't win. There are more problems here than Turner — such as no real GM between Davis and the coach. _Mike Martz, St. Louis. He's on medical leave and is suggesting he may want to come back. It's hard to see that as long as Jay Zygmunt is the team's director of football operations. Like Turner, Martz might be best as a coordinator, which is what he was when the Rams won a Super Bowl with his offense. ON THE BUBBLE _Mike Tice, Minnesota. He was gone until the Vikings won four straight and might be kept if he makes the playoffs. But remember that Zygi Wilf, the new owner, has promised to fix the team's image problem and Tice is part of that. He presumably had nothing to do with the hijinks on the Lake Minnetonka boat ride, but he was fined $100,000 by the NFL for scalping Super Bowl tickets. MAYBE _Dick Vermeil, Kansas City. His choice. He's 69 and has talked about retiring. Best guess it that he'd do it after a successful season, which means the playoffs. _Joe Gibbs, Washington. Another possible retirement. Things haven't gone anywhere near as well as expected during his second tenure (he's 11-16). He says he'll stick it out, but it's hard to win when Dan "The Fan" Snyder lets go of the likes of Champ Bailey, Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot. _Herman Edwards, New York Jets. He can stay if he wants, but there are persistent rumors that he could go to the Chiefs if Vermeil leaves. He began his post-playing career there, and is close to team president Carl Peterson. When Edwards is asked about the Chiefs, he doesn't completely deny it. _Jim Haslett, New Orleans. Probably gets another year because he's had so much to contend with and the front office is in turmoil. But he needs a good 2006; the only consistent thing about the Saints during his tenure is inconsistency. SUCCESSORS The first name on everyone's list is Charlie Weis, his 10-year extension with Notre Dame notwithstanding. Unless it's Pete Carroll, who was 34-33 in stints with the Jets and Patriots. If Gibbs leaves, Snyder would jump all over either (and get turned down). Weis' name even comes up as Tom Coughlin's eventual successor with the Giants, even though Coughlin is very secure. Still, teamed with New England personnel guru Scott Pioli, Jersey guy Weis might be attracted to the Meadowlands in a few years, especially with Eli Manning there. Mariucci could land in Green Bay, and Martz and Billick might get other jobs. Even though the Baltimore offense stinks, Wilf, a lifelong Giants fan, is said to be interested in Jim Fassel, their former coach, who is now the Ravens' offensive coordinator. Hot coordinators: Ron Rivera, defense, Bears; Brad Childress, offense, Eagles; Tim Lewis, defense, Giants; Gregg Williams, defense, Redskins. Lukewarm coordinators: Sean Payton, offense, Cowboys; Donnie Henderson, Jets, defense (down from hot). Williams was 17-31 as coach in Buffalo, but might get another job (see Belichick, Bill), perhaps with the Redskins if Gibbs re-retires. Lewis was one of the minority candidates who turned down Millen's request to interview when the Lions hired Mariucci. He also played for Green Bay. DIRTY DOZEN The top six and bottom six teams based on current level of play: 1. Indianapolis (11-0). Dungy might be relieved by a loss. 2. Denver (9-2). Nowhere near Indy's level. 3. Chicago (8-3). Defense. See Ron Rivera, above. 4. Seattle (9-2). Even Holmgren concedes he's getting breaks this season he never got before. 5. Kansas City (7-4). Seem to be jelling. 6. New York Giants (7-4). If Seahawks are fourth, the Giants deserve no worse than sixth for outplaying them. 27. Arizona (3-8). Neil Rackers actually missed a field-goal attempt last week. 28. New York Jets (2-9). Defense is crumbling under weight of bad offense. 29. Detroit (4-7). What a pitiful Thanksgiving. 30. Green Bay (2-9). Alas, poor Brett. 31. San Francisco (2-9). Alex Smith tries to restart his career. 32. Houston (1-10). Sigh ... Copyright © 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Questions or Comments Privacy Policy -Terms of Service - Copyright/IP Policy - Ad Feedback

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12-03-2005, 07:28 PM	#2
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	2. Denver (9-2). Nowhere near Indy's level Paste that one in the locker room boys!

12-03-2005, 08:09 PM	#4
Borks147 the dude abides... Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hanover NH Posts: 1,845	Does this mean Kubiak is off the list for Houston's next HC?

12-03-2005, 09:08 PM	#6
HemiEd Solid Starter Chiefs fan Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 107	Good article, the Chiefs at number 5.

12-03-2005, 10:35 PM	#9
ludo21 RIP Darrent Williams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 17,915 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Ernster	Thanks for the info Wabbit, i want Kubes to stay, but if he chooses to move on to a HC spot, mor power to him. I know ill be rooting for him.

12-03-2005, 11:13 PM	#13
Paladin Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,150	If Favre retires next year, that might become a better position for Kubes, or anyone, for that matter. It usually takes 2 years for a team to absorb the new schemes, both D and O. With Favre out, the expectations can be a bit more realistic and give the guy a chance to develop his/her program. I think Kube's moving on might be good for Denver. Maybe it is time that some new ideas on O would be helpful, even though the basic O will be about the same. But maybe give some different ways of giving Shanahan some rejuvenation.

12-05-2005, 12:59 PM	#19
elpasojoe Solid Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: El Paso, TX, originally Ordway (southeast) Colorado Posts: 154	If Gary Kubiak moves on to another team, I would like to officially nominate Bobby Turner, running backs coach, as our new offensive coordinator. I remember reading somewhere lately that he would consider a change that would help lead him up the coaching ladder. And this way we could keep him with us. Comments?

12-05-2005, 01:50 PM	#20
bronco_diesel giddy-up Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: denver Posts: 1,248	here is my guess at possible changes next year- texans - kubiak green bay - marriucci raiders - billick minnesota - martz baltimore - fassel denver hires norv turner for OC

12-05-2005, 04:29 PM	#25
orinjkrush ... Prospects for the future... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DistrictOfCorruption Posts: 4,914 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ben Garland	i would love to have mooch as a coordinator, even for a season or two.