Chemical weapons in Fallujah! - The Orange Mane

Rigs11 · 11-16-2005, 07:58 PM

Oh the irony.....

US used white phosphorus in Iraq

US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in last year's offensive in the Iraqi city of Falluja, the US has said.

"It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said.

The US had earlier said the substance - which can cause burning of the flesh - had been used only for illumination.

BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood says having to retract its denial is a public relations disaster for the US.

Col Venable denied that white phosphorous constituted a banned chemical weapon.

Washington is not a signatory to an international treaty restricting the use of the substance against civilians.

The US state department had earlier said white phosphorus had been used in Falluja very sparingly, for illumination purposes.

Col Venable said that statement was based on "poor information".

'Incendiary'

The US-led assault on Falluja - a stronghold of the Sunni insurgency west of Baghdad - displaced most of the city's 300,000 population and left many of its buildings destroyed.

Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases.

"However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants."

And he said it had been used in Falluja, but it was a "conventional munition", not a chemical weapon.

It is not "outlawed or illegal", Col Venable said.

He said US forces could use white phosphorus rounds to flush enemy troops out of covered positions.

"The combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about by the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so that you can kill them with high explosives," he said.

San Diego journalist Darrin Mortenson, who was embedded with US marines during the assault on Falluja, told the BBC's Today radio programme he had seen white phosphorous used "as an incendiary weapon" against insurgents.

However, he "never saw anybody intentionally use any weapon against civilians", he said.

'Particularly nasty'

White phosphorus is highly flammable and ignites on contact with oxygen. If the substance hits someone's body, it will burn until deprived of oxygen.

Globalsecurity.org, a defence website, says: "Phosphorus burns on the skin are deep and painful... These weapons are particularly nasty because white phosphorus continues to burn until it disappears... it could burn right down to the bone."

A spokesman at the UK Ministry of Defence said the use of white phosphorus was permitted in battle in cases where there were no civilians near the target area.

But Professor Paul Rogers, of the University of Bradford's department of peace studies, said white phosphorus could be considered a chemical weapon if deliberately aimed at civilians.

He told PM: "It is not counted under the chemical weapons convention in its normal use but, although it is a matter of legal niceties, it probably does fall into the category of chemical weapons if it is used for this kind of purpose directly against people."

When an Italian TV documentary revealing the use of white phosphorus in Iraq was broadcast on 8 November it sparked fury among Italian anti-war protesters, who demonstrated outside the US embassy in Rome.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4440664.stm

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-16-2005, 10:42 PM

Wow!

If you're W*GS, then this is definitely a time to change the subject to Clinton's zipper!

rofl

Rigs11 · 11-16-2005, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Wow!

If you're W*GS, then this is definitely a time to change the subject to Clinton's zipper!

rofl

Yep I'm betting he will come along anytime screaming "others did it too", "don't blame Bush"

ak1971 · 11-17-2005, 06:14 AM

What my question about this report is, (and lefty Ed Schultz brought up the same point on his radio show) is why this comes out now? There were plenty of soldiers, reporters etc. in Falluja to bring this up last year. It comes out in some socialist mag in Italy ..ill something or other. a year later.

W*GS · 11-17-2005, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If you're W*GS, then this is definitely a time to change the subject to Clinton's zipper!

Sigh.

Garcia Bronco · 11-17-2005, 10:09 AM

Liberal idiots repeat this garbage every where....anti-american morons.
phosphorus has been used in war for years. further more it's not illegal...and the idea that Rig11 would basically compare it to mustard gas or sarin in the ultimate in bull**** agenda pushing.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Liberal idiots repeat this garbage every where....anti-american morons.
phosphorus has been used in war for years. further more it's not illegal...and the idea that Rig11 would basically compare it to mustard gas or sarin in the ultimate in bull**** agenda pushing.

When all else fails, fall back on the "anti-american" slogan. Goes to show the right wing mentality.Did you even bother to read the article?Or are you such a "patriot" that you give a pass on whatever this corrupt hypocritical goverment does? from the article: "It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said.Would you like me to post the video that show the burns that civilians received?So since you don't consider this a chemical weapon?

ak1971 · 11-17-2005, 10:32 AM

The use of phosphorus would go on regardless of the administration. If Clinton or anyone else was running the war, they would use the same sorts of munitions.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak1971

The use of phosphorus would go on regardless of the administration. If Clinton or anyone else was running the war, they would use the same sorts of munitions.

Doesn't make it right.Why must Clinton be brought up everytime the current admin facks up? They've been screaming for 4 years now about how dangerous Saddam was, and how he had chemical weapons and we haven't found shet. Now it turns out that the US military is using phosphrous as a chemical weapon.I mean come on. Can our credibility get any lower?

ak1971 · 11-17-2005, 10:42 AM

Im really not debating about the credibilty of the US or Clinton or anyone else. What I am saying is that this has nothing to do with anything but smearing the military. These types of munitions were probably used in in E Europe actions, and other every other admin. This is just a smear campaign...thought that the first time I saw who it was published by.....regardless of what you think about the war, etc. Its war and bad things happen during war

Rascal · 11-17-2005, 10:45 AM

They were not using as a chemical weapon your own pathetic article even mentions that. It was used as incendiary weapon. Hell I bet the Brits even used it.

Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases.

"However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants."

Much ado about nothing. Pathetic attempt at fishing.

Rascal · 11-17-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak1971

Im really not debating about the credibilty of the US or Clinton or anyone else. What I am saying is that this has nothing to do with anything but smearing the military. These types of munitions were probably used in in E Europe actions, and other every other admin. This is just a smear campaign...thought that the first time I saw who it was published by.....regardless of what you think about the war, etc. Its war and bad things happen during war

Bingo.

White phosphorous has been used by every major military force in the world since it was developed. They try not to use it against civilians but the fact is during war civilians are going to get killed or injured.

This is nothing but a smear job by Rigs against our military and I don't give a crap what he says otherwise. You want to badger Bush for going there fine, but if you are going to b**** and moan about this it falls directly on the military.

Garcia Bronco · 11-17-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

When all else fails, fall back on the "anti-american" slogan. Goes to show the right wing mentality.Did you even bother to read the article?Or are you such a "patriot" that you give a pass on whatever this corrupt hypocritical goverment does? from the article: "It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said.Would you like me to post the video that show the burns that civilians received?So since you don't consider this a chemical weapon?

The only wing I'm in is the American one, Pinko.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal

They were not using as a chemical weapon your own pathetic article even mentions that. It was used as incendiary weapon. Hell I bet the Brits even used it.

Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases.

"However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants."

Much ado about nothing. Pathetic attempt at fishing.

Ahh yes. Just like it's "interrogation" and not "torture" right?He told PM: "It is not counted under the chemical weapons convention in its normal use but, although it is a matter of legal niceties, it probably does fall into the category of chemical weapons if it is used for this kind of purpose directly against people."A kitchen knife can be used to cut tomatoes or to kill someone Depends on how you look at it.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal

Bingo.

White phosphorous has been used by every major military force in the world since it was developed. They try not to use it against civilians but the fact is during war civilians are going to get killed or injured.

This is nothing but a smear job by Rigs against our military and I don't give a crap what he says otherwise. You want to badger Bush for going there fine, but if you are going to b**** and moan about this it falls directly on the military.

Oh yeah what's next? You gonna tell me how I don't support our troops? In your small little brain do you honestly believe that these orders are not approved by the commander in chief? Wake the fack up.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

The only wing I'm in is the American one, Pinko.

Yeah right. You're as transparent as you are misinformed.

Garcia Bronco · 11-17-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Yeah right. You're as transparent as you are misinformed.

PINKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Garcia Bronco · 11-17-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Oh yeah what's next? You gonna tell me how I don't support our troops? In your small little brain do you honestly believe that these orders are not approved by the commander in chief? Wake the fack up.

\

It's still not the same as mustard gas Pinko....so take your BS proganda back to the bloggishacks and tell them to STFackD and STFackU. Btw...if you're gonna use the 'F' word....go for the gold.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

PINKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Your right wing IQ is showing. Fascist.

Rigs11 · 11-17-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

\

It's still not the same as mustard gas Pinko....so take your BS proganda back to the bloggishacks and tell them to STFackD and STFackU. Btw...if you're gonna use the 'F' word....go for the gold.

Did I say it was the same as mustrad gas? I said it was used as a chemical weapon. What are you 12?

Rascal · 11-17-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Oh yeah what's next? You gonna tell me how I don't support our troops? In your small little brain do you honestly believe that these orders are not approved by the commander in chief? Wake the fack up.

Do you honestly think that the military commanders are going to go to bush and ask permission to use every single weapon they have? No.

He is going to tell them use conventional warfare and limit the civilian casualties and go accomplish this blah. When your commander in chief, who often have no military experience, starts telling the military how to do their job that's when things really starting going bad on our end. Need evidence...look at Hitler.

I'm awake chief, sorry you're living in the dream world. And thanks for the insult...how typical.

Rascal · 11-17-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Did I say it was the same as mustrad gas? I said it was used as a chemical weapon. What are you 12?

Again....it was not used as a chemical weapon. It was used as an incendiary weapon. And it's not even classified as a chemical weapon. "Professor Paul Rogers, of the University of Bradford's department of peace studies, said white phosphorus could be considered a chemical weapon if deliberately aimed at civilians."

And who is Professor Paul Rogers to determine what is ethical in war or not? As far as we know he is some liberal nut with his own agenda.

WEAK!!!

ak1971 · 11-17-2005, 11:46 AM

Heres the next story...Tens of thousands of troops take too many dumps in Iraq. Insuing cesspool kills civilians.

Garcia Bronco · 11-17-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Did I say it was the same as mustrad gas? I said it was used as a chemical weapon. What are you 12?

Look Facko, when you post on the board that our country is using chemical weapons with regards to white phosphor in munitions on enemy combatants...you're comparing it to illegal chemical weapons such as mustard gas or sarin gas. Not only are you doing that....but you're circulating propaganda reported by those on foreign soil...and while it is your right to express this....it's nothing more that you showing your inability to want to be a citizen of this country. I and others...would appreciate it if you would just leave this country...you obviously hate it enough to regurgitate garbage like this. Have a good one anti-american jackass.

Rascal · 11-17-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak1971

Heres the next story...Tens of thousands of troops take too many dumps in Iraq. Insuing cesspool kills civilians.

!!!!

Rep

11-16-2005, 07:58 PM	#1
Rigs11 Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 7,818	Chemical weapons in Fallujah! Oh the irony..... US used white phosphorus in Iraq US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in last year's offensive in the Iraqi city of Falluja, the US has said. "It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said. The US had earlier said the substance - which can cause burning of the flesh - had been used only for illumination. BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood says having to retract its denial is a public relations disaster for the US. Col Venable denied that white phosphorous constituted a banned chemical weapon. Washington is not a signatory to an international treaty restricting the use of the substance against civilians. The US state department had earlier said white phosphorus had been used in Falluja very sparingly, for illumination purposes. Col Venable said that statement was based on "poor information". 'Incendiary' The US-led assault on Falluja - a stronghold of the Sunni insurgency west of Baghdad - displaced most of the city's 300,000 population and left many of its buildings destroyed. Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases. "However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants." And he said it had been used in Falluja, but it was a "conventional munition", not a chemical weapon. It is not "outlawed or illegal", Col Venable said. He said US forces could use white phosphorus rounds to flush enemy troops out of covered positions. "The combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about by the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so that you can kill them with high explosives," he said. San Diego journalist Darrin Mortenson, who was embedded with US marines during the assault on Falluja, told the BBC's Today radio programme he had seen white phosphorous used "as an incendiary weapon" against insurgents. However, he "never saw anybody intentionally use any weapon against civilians", he said. 'Particularly nasty' White phosphorus is highly flammable and ignites on contact with oxygen. If the substance hits someone's body, it will burn until deprived of oxygen. Globalsecurity.org, a defence website, says: "Phosphorus burns on the skin are deep and painful... These weapons are particularly nasty because white phosphorus continues to burn until it disappears... it could burn right down to the bone." A spokesman at the UK Ministry of Defence said the use of white phosphorus was permitted in battle in cases where there were no civilians near the target area. But Professor Paul Rogers, of the University of Bradford's department of peace studies, said white phosphorus could be considered a chemical weapon if deliberately aimed at civilians. He told PM: "It is not counted under the chemical weapons convention in its normal use but, although it is a matter of legal niceties, it probably does fall into the category of chemical weapons if it is used for this kind of purpose directly against people." When an Italian TV documentary revealing the use of white phosphorus in Iraq was broadcast on 8 November it sparked fury among Italian anti-war protesters, who demonstrated outside the US embassy in Rome. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4440664.stm

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11-16-2005, 10:42 PM	#2
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Wow! If you're WGS, then this is definitely* a time to change the subject to Clinton's zipper! rofl

11-17-2005, 06:14 AM	#4
ak1971 uhhhh Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,536	What my question about this report is, (and lefty Ed Schultz brought up the same point on his radio show) is why this comes out now? There were plenty of soldiers, reporters etc. in Falluja to bring this up last year. It comes out in some socialist mag in Italy ..ill something or other. a year later.

11-17-2005, 10:09 AM	#6
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 45,987 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	Liberal idiots repeat this garbage every where....anti-american morons. phosphorus has been used in war for years. further more it's not illegal...and the idea that Rig11 would basically compare it to mustard gas or sarin in the ultimate in bull**** agenda pushing.

11-17-2005, 10:32 AM	#8
ak1971 uhhhh Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,536	The use of phosphorus would go on regardless of the administration. If Clinton or anyone else was running the war, they would use the same sorts of munitions.

11-17-2005, 10:42 AM	#10
ak1971 uhhhh Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,536	Im really not debating about the credibilty of the US or Clinton or anyone else. What I am saying is that this has nothing to do with anything but smearing the military. These types of munitions were probably used in in E Europe actions, and other every other admin. This is just a smear campaign...thought that the first time I saw who it was published by.....regardless of what you think about the war, etc. Its war and bad things happen during war

11-17-2005, 10:45 AM	#11
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,581 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	They were not using as a chemical weapon your own pathetic article even mentions that. It was used as incendiary weapon. Hell I bet the Brits even used it. Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases. "However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants." Much ado about nothing. Pathetic attempt at fishing.

11-17-2005, 11:46 AM	#23
ak1971 uhhhh Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,536	Heres the next story...Tens of thousands of troops take too many dumps in Iraq. Insuing cesspool kills civilians.