Denver-Area Residents Will Pay $188 Billion Over 25 Years To Live In Sprawl

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Anyone living in a giant, unchecked growth metro area can see it happening before their eyes. Looks like Denver has made another top 10 list.

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The Denver Business Journal - 12:38 PM MST Monday
Denver among worst offenders for sprawl

Denver ranks among the top sprawling economic areas, according to a book published Monday.

The book, "Sprawl Costs: Economic Impacts of Unchecked Development," argues Americans are paying $84 million a day, or $31 billion annually, to live in sprawling communities. The book was written by Robert Burchell, co-director of the Center for Urban Policy Research at Rutgers University; Anthony Downs, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution; Barbara McCann, a transportation and land use policy writer; and Sahan Mukherji, research associate at the Center for Urban Policy Research.

The cost of sprawl comes in the form of higher expenses to drive everywhere, additional water and sewer hookups as more homes are built, and more funds needed to build additional roads.

The authors predicted the cost of low-density development, which they considered sprawl, from now to 2025.

Denver ranked No. 10 on the list of sprawling economic areas, which is defined as a metropolitan area plus its rural counties. Leading the list were: Los Angeles, Washington/Baltimore, San Francisco Bay Area, New York City, Dallas-Fort Worth, Atlanta, Boston and Miami/Fort Lauderdale.

The authors say Denver-area residents will pay $188 billion over 25 years to live in sprawling communities, or $49,767 a person. They argue that if just 25 percent of low-density growth is shifted to compact growth, the savings would be $21 billion, or $5,570 a person.

"It seems so much simpler to buy farmland at the edge and build a familiar housing subdivision," Burchell said, "but in the long run, this is a more costly strategy for everyone."
http://tinyurl.com/bdcto

[Rascal]

Just out of plain ignorance....how is this more costly?

Americans like their space and their cars....chaulk it up to freedom. It's not going to change.

[ak1971]

here it comes....its Bush's fault

[W*GS]

What's the expected economic output of the Denver metro area over that same period? That $188 billion sounds suspiciously exact, and no doubt derived from many subjective guesses.

Typical urban planner/social engineer types. Remember when, in the 60s, they decided that there were "too many" cheap hotels in downtown areas, and that those areas needed "renewal" to attract surburbanites back downtown? So the hotels were torn down, and lo and behold, we have bums begging on the streets instead, outside shiny office towers and 4-star hotels.

I don't much listen to the rants of social engineers - they think they know best, but they often do not.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rascal

Americans like their space and their cars....chaulk it up to freedom. It's not going to change.

So you don't think it will change even when gas hits $4 per gallon?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by ak1971

here it comes....its Bush's fault

You keep getting your own message wrong.

It should read "nothing is Bush's fault."

[ak1971]

only washed up bands from 'LA'

[Meck77]

Too bad the article doesn't mention that 75% of this freakin state lives in a little strip of land that runs along the I-25 corridor to the base of the mountain range. Yeah it's sprawl....It's called we all live in the foothills while the rest of the state is virtually empty.

Slugs just a bitter former Denver resident who moved for whatever reason. I've read it time and time again in his posts. Hey it's understandable. Denver has grown from what he is use to in the 70's. To me it's heaven on earth still. It's still has that small town feel to me.

I agree about sprawl to a point. There is smart growth and sprawl. Aurora for example is gobbling up farmland. However the water tap fees they charge per house and the fees associated for that house far outweigh the impact of that single family home. I could write a novel on this one issue alone.

I'm just going to leave it at that for now.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by ak1971

only washed up bands from 'LA'

Oh, that's right - somehow you concluded I was in a band.

[Meck77]

how bout them Broncos LA?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Meck77

how bout them Broncos LA?

They....could....go....all....the....way.....

But did you forget this was the War, Religion, and Politics part of the forum?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Meck77

Too bad the article doesn't mention that 75% of this freakin state lives in a little strip of land that runs along the I-25 corridor to the base of the mountain range. Yeah it's sprawl....It's called we all live in the foothills while the rest of the state is virtually empty.

Slugs just a bitter former Denver resident who moved for whatever reason. I've read it time and time again in his posts. Hey it's understandable. Denver has grown from what he is use to in the 70's. To me it's heaven on earth still. It's still has that small town feel to me.

I agree about sprawl to a point. There is smart growth and sprawl. Aurora for example is gobbling up farmland. However the water tap fees they charge per house and the fees associated for that house far outweigh the impact of that single family home. I could write a novel on this one issue alone.

I'm just going to leave it at that for now.

I'm a happy Colorado and TX resident (not "bitter" at all). Just because you don't like hearing negative articles on how conjested and dirty the Denver area is, doesn't mean it isn't so.

And if you think Denver has a "small town feel" you're living in a dreamworld.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Slug - you can find all sorts of articles like this about every location. Business 2.0 had one a couple of weeks ago that said your area was going to be one big megalopolis from Brownesville, thru Houston to NO and Birmingham. Another would stretch from San Antonio through DFW to KC and St Louis. Denver was not even mentioned.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Slug - you can find all sorts of articles like this about every location. Business 2.0 had one a couple of weeks ago that said your area was going to be one big megalopolis from Brownesville, thru Houston to NO and Birmingham. Another would stretch from San Antonio through DFW to KC and St Louis. Denver was not even mentioned.

No worries about that happening here (not in the next century or 2 anyway).
The I-35 corridor is where the growth is. With home prices under $100 grand for new 3 bdr, 2 car bricks from Waco through SA, it's growing almost as fast the Denver megalopolis.

[alkemical]

I live in the megalopolis on the east coast being in PA's capital. I got philly, dc, NYC, Boston all right within 8hrs or less - and spraw is huge - thank goodness for amtrak.

[bendog]

I'd really like to live in Den IF I had the house where I grew up prior to my folks moving to the burbs. Noway would I commute in either from Jeff Co or from where we moved to around Arapahoe Rd and I-25

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

And if you think Denver has a "small town feel" you're living in a dreamworld.

It's all relative man. After driving the bus from Denver to NY and back my perspective has changed. Infact when we were heading back and saw the lights of Indy it felt close to home. It really did.

Maybe I am living in a dream world but I spent over 18 years living away from Denver and dreamt about living back home alot. I love it here and you enjoy whatever part of Texas your are in. To each his own.

If you don't like Denver now Slug then you definetly won't like it 20 years from now. This place is going to explode and real estate prices are going to soar. We've been flat for several years now but I feel the change coming. People will only move so far east. Heck not uncommon for people to knock down decent properties intown to build their dream home. It's basic supply and demand. Sure people will continue to move out to the sticks but there are always developers/buyers for close intown property. Infact the majority of City Council members in the Denver Metro area support just about any urban renewal/infill developement.

All is well in Denver folks and it's only getting better with the light rail expansion, t-rex project, water conservation plans, etc.

I'm an optimist Slug and from the majority of your posts I pin you down as a pessimist. It's these different types of mentalities in the world that balance one another out.

[bendog]

I dunno. I know a guy who commutes from Highlands to around S. Colo Blvd from about Evans up to N. Colo Blvd near the hospitals. No thanks. I'd rather I ended up in Knoxville or Madison Wi or some college town like that, but I like my 5 min commute to the office and gym. But that's just me.

Now IF I lived around Colo Blvd and Ellsworth And only had to commute to downtown ... yeah, Den could still have a hometown feel. But when I was a kid you didn't even miss having AC with humidity in the 10's during the summer. Feels more like Ohio to me nowadays in the summer. Sucks.

[alkemical]

I'm a native CO'ian - i do miss summers in CO vs. PA - although seattle summers are nice....

[Meck77]

I hear you dog. I don't commute either as I work from home. Hell I don't like driving much at all.

However if you look at every major residential development in the front range for the most part ALL the developers are gearing them towards a work, live, play development. Or they position there development to all the amenties to where people don't have to drive 30 minutes to work or get groceries.

You'll have a few thousands homes, anchored with a few big box stores, office, retail, open space and they are usually connected with bike paths, old town shopping district etc.

It is the trend. The builders recognized this more than a decade ago. I know people who live on these areas that barely even use a car anymore. Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule but the THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON regardless of how Slug paints the picture.

[alkemical]

Why don't people use MT much?

I use the train to go anywhere on the E. Coast near PA - Hell i took teh train to seattle & back....

I get riducled for using the bus.....

Honestly, people are just lazy.....

Now i do drive 45min to work, but this job opened up, but if it turns out to be a long term gig, i'm moving down towards where i work -

but the whole work/play/live thing - it's all been done in cities anyway - HBG, PA has been pushing that for years.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by amesj523

but the whole work/play/live thing - it's all been done in cities anyway - HBG, PA has been pushing that for years.

I'm not saying it's new ames but there was a time in the front range that somebody would scrape some farmland and plop a couple thousand homes on it without any consideration of where these people would shop etc. This was during the major boom of the 90's when supply was tight.

With the downturn in the local economy here developers have to be more aware of their competition now. There is alot of new construction inventory out there and the old saying of location...location is still holds true. The builders tolerance for land speculation (cheap land) is pretty tight now and they are willing to pay a premium for intown land or land with Mixed use development potential to stay competitive.

Simply put the I-25 corridor didn't have the traffice volume it does now compared to 10-15 years ago. People aren't willing to make those long commutes and sit in traffic if they don't have to. With the addition of the E-470 beltway (ahead of it's time I might add) this has opened up thousands of acres of land to development which could basically be considered infill land thus helping to curb the "sprawl".

Contrary to Slugs "dooms day" Denver scenario the future is bright here and I do know a little on this subject. I do a little more around town than just cook brats in parking lots.

[alkemical]

I see the negative of sprawl and the work/shop/play idea - around here - it's pushing out productive farmland for cookie cut homes and more walmarts - i feel that most people will be 'directed' to spend their money at x places that will be close limiting choice, of course it would be your choice to live there - but you know what i mean -

e470 should be nice - i used to live in pueblo -

[bendog]

Meck and Ames, one thing from Beerslugs' link

Los Angeles, Washington/Baltimore, San Francisco Bay Area, New York City, Dallas-Fort Worth, Atlanta, Boston and Miami/Fort Lauderdale

imo, wash/balt, SF, NYC are all very liveable simply because all have MT. Even here in this faulknerian hamlett + third world, I'm seeing new developments that seek to put work/play in the same general development as residential. How that plays out, I dunno. I do agree with Beerslug however that any poor bastard who has to commute in the denver metro area is suckign his life away. Mountains or no mountains.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Meck77

I do a little more around town than just cook brats in parking lots.

Your priorities need to be fixed !!!