Thoughts on Coyer & Def stats - The Orange Mane

dlow187 · 10-24-2005, 08:17 PM

Coyer needsa new scheme or he needs to go. Not a Completly new scheme, keeping what works and scraping what dont but one that makes adjustments to what the other team is doing. Through out this season i find myself questioning his play calling. But what do I know, he's the one getting paid to worry about it right? I just have so many questions for him.
Whats with all the delayed blitzes? If your gonna blitz then just send em.
Why do you zone blitz when we dont have any linemen fast enough to cover?
When you blitz why do you play so much zone?

We are getting outscored horribly in the fourth quarter this year 68-29
As we all know the 4th quarter play calling cost us this game, and almost the NE game and almost the Skins game. Heres some intresting stats

5th in league vs. run
25th in league vs. pass

14th in league scoring defense
26th in league total yrds

27nd in league in ints
32nd in league in sacks
5th in league in turnover diff
31st in league in defensive red Zone scoring
22nd in league in 3rd down conversion

dlow187 · 10-24-2005, 08:25 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^all defensive stats^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

baja · 10-24-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlow187

Coyer needsa new scheme or he needs to go. Not a Completly new scheme, keeping what works and scraping what dont but one that makes adjustments to what the other team is doing. Through out this season i find myself questioning his play calling. But what do I know, he's the one getting paid to worry about it right? I just have so many questions for him.
Whats with all the delayed blitzes? If your gonna blitz then just send em.
Why do you zone blitz when we dont have any linemen fast enough to cover?
When you blitz why do you play so much zone?

We are getting outscored horribly in the fourth quarter this year 68-29
As we all know the 4th quarter play calling cost us this game, and almost the NE game and almost the Skins game. Heres some intresting stats

5th in league vs. run
25th in league vs. pass

14th in league scoring defense
26th in league total yrds

27nd in league in ints
32nd in league in sacks
5th in league in turnover diff
31st in league in defensive red Zone scoring
22nd in league in 3rd down conversion

This is the one that worries me most

ncjmirabile · 10-24-2005, 08:30 PM

Denver is also 2nd in passes defensed. Top five in QB hurries and top five in the give away/take away.

All this leads me to believe is that Denver is tough to figure out.

dlow187 · 10-24-2005, 08:31 PM

we need to keep these up
5th in league vs. run
5th in league in turnover diff

and desperately improve this
31st in league in defensive red Zone scoring

SoCalBronco · 10-24-2005, 08:31 PM

The Pass Defense and Total Yardage stats are artificially inflated since we have been ahead by double digits in every game since San Diego, forcing teams to pass all the time which will naturally inflate their stats. Coyer does a good job with the club. Not perfect but he is still a very good defensive coordinator. I'll never forgive him for what he did to my boy, but as a Defensive Coordinator he is still a top notch guy. He put together a top unit with a bunch of scrubs in 2003, and without our very best player, he had a top 5 defense in 2004. We have all seen how good his defense has been this year. His schemes are working. We do tend to back off a little late, but I dont think we have backed off too much. We were still blitzing a plenty in the fourth quarter against New York. They did a better job picking them up and were aided by the referees taking an extremely conservative interpretation of holding. Warren was busting through there, we were getting pressure before they started holding repeatedly. Coyer is a fine coach, although we do need to get better in the red zone and on third down.

dlow187 · 10-24-2005, 08:32 PM

[QUOTE=ncjmirabile]top five in the give away/take away.

QUOTE]

thats what turnover diff is

listopencil · 10-24-2005, 08:39 PM

I've seen what our D looks like with bad DC's. This D is well coached. If we had Robinson or Rhodes instead we would be sucking hind teat in a huge way. Getting rid of Coyer would be a catastrophic mistake.

ncjmirabile · 10-24-2005, 08:43 PM

[QUOTE=dlow187]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

top five in the give away/take away.

QUOTE]

Woops I missed that in your post.
thats what turnover diff is

ncjmirabile · 10-24-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlow187

we need to keep these up
5th in league vs. run
5th in league in turnover diff

and desperately improve this
31st in league in defensive red Zone scoring

Also hopefully keep up the QB pressure stats, too.

dlow187 · 10-24-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

I've seen what our D looks like with bad DC's. This D is well coached. If we had Robinson or Rhodes instead we would be sucking hind teat in a huge way. Getting rid of Coyer would be a catastrophic mistake.

I never said get rid of him i said he needs a new scheme. He is a good coach As far as Robinson and Rhodes go the can suck my pair of pigskins

DarkHorse30 · 10-24-2005, 08:59 PM

I agree completely with the idea that our defense is lacking. Look at what Denver's D did on that last drive:

1-10-NYG17 (3:29) E.Manning pass incomplete to T.Barber.

2-10-NYG17 (3:24) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to P.Burress to NYG 23 for 6 yards (A.Wilson).

3-4-NYG23 (2:54) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to P.Burress to NYG 29 for 6 yards (D.Foxworth, Da.Williams).DEN-Da.Williams was injured during the play.

1-10-NYG29 (2:13) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to NYG 36 for 7 yards (A.Wilson, N.Ferguson).

2-3-NYG36 (2:00) T.Barber up the middle to NYG 42 for 6 yards (A.Wilson).

1-10-NYG42 (1:45) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to T.Barber to DEN 49 for 9 yards (D.Foxworth, I.Gold).

2-1-DEN49 (1:23) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to DEN 44 for 5 yards (A.Wilson, C.Bailey).

1-10-DEN44 (1:01) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to DEN 35 for 9 yards (I.Gold, A.Wilson).

2-1-DEN35 (:51) T.Barber up the middle to DEN 32 for 3 yards (I.Gold).

1-10-DEN32 (:36) E.Manning pass incomplete to P.Burress.

2-10-DEN32 (:34) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete to T.Carter.

3-10-DEN32 (:27) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to J.Shockey pushed ob at DEN 8 for 24 yards (I.Gold).

1-8-DEN8 (:21) E.Manning pass incomplete to A.Toomer.

2-8-DEN8 (:17) E.Manning pass to T.Barber to DEN 2 for 6 yards (J.Lynch).

3-2-DEN2 (:10) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Look at how many yards the Gints were getting on first down around mid-field. Nine yards twice in a row. Brilliant

You can blame it on the offense for not making third downs....but scoring 23 on the road, and holding the ball for 34 minutes is NOT forcing your defense on the field. Our defense is NOT getting it done in the 4th quarter. Coyer needs to grasp a clue if he wants to build a championship defense. The talent is there....the coaching is NOT.

listopencil · 10-24-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlow187

I never said get rid of him i said he needs a new scheme. He is a good coach As far as Robinson and Rhodes go the can suck my pair of pigskins

That's how I interpreted this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlow187

Coyer needsa new scheme or he needs to go.

Pat Bowlen · 10-24-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlow187

^^^^^^^^^^^all defensive stats^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ohhhhh....

yavoon · 10-24-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja fan

This is the one that worries me most

bah dont be a hipster a lot of those dont look good.

listopencil · 10-24-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

I agree completely with the idea that our defense is lacking. Look at what Denver's D did on that last drive:

You can blame it on the offense for not making third downs....but scoring 23 on the road, and holding the ball for 34 minutes is NOT forcing your defense on the field. Our defense is NOT getting it done in the 4th quarter. Coyer needs to grasp a clue if he wants to build a championship defense. The talent is there....the coaching is NOT.

I blame it on our D's tendency to wear down after a few first downs late in every game. Some of our players are relying on speed that isn't there anymore late in the fourth on a long drive. They are good enough do beat the living snot out of people when they are all near %100 but they need to work on positioning, they need to play smart when their physical tools begin to fade due to fatigue.

baja · 10-24-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yavoon

bah dont be a hipster a lot of those dont look good.

What the hell is a hipster anyway

ludo21 · 10-24-2005, 09:20 PM

Coyer has done a fine job. I agree with everythingt SoCal said, but it was an EXTREMELY bad officiating crew and it cost us many times. Im pretty much done bashing the refs, but one thing puzzles me, why didnt the CBS crew replay Burress "catch" (i dont think it was)? They usually replay that stuff constantly to check and make sure the call was correct, and for the announcers to have something to talk about. I can understand the refs bypassing a chance to challenge, and the booth not doing anyhting, but why not show a replay like that over and over again? It was pretty crucial IMO.

Back to the topic.......... it came down to execution and the D didnt do it. The delayed blitzes worked pretty well Sunday so what are you talkinga bout?

ecnal15 · 10-24-2005, 09:28 PM

there are only two things I have noticed during the games that bothers me. When we blitz our cb's play way to far off. They should be playing tight and the safetys should be creaping in to stop the TE's.

Also when we get into the redzone we play zone coverage and our DB's are watching the QB instead of the WR's (example washington game final touchdown) We should have guys manned up on the WR's and just our safety's in zone protect.(example washington game 2pt conversion)

NFLBRONCO · 10-24-2005, 09:38 PM

If we do replace Coyer let's get a proven guy with great scheme's. I think we should get Coyer 2 studs at S and see what we can do first before we hope he is or should be replaced.

DB-Freak · 10-25-2005, 04:23 AM

Coyer has been attacking very aggressively.

The reason I think we use delayed blitzing is because our LBs are speed reliant unlike Romo who could bust through the line.

If Champ hasn't sucking his thumb against Plexiglass in the endzone and Nick Ferguson actually moves and does something, this conversion wouldn't be even taking place.

And about the talent, I think it's pretty overrated. So far nobody has proven to be a surefire stud expect maybe CHamp and Warren and Pryce. I think they are borderline so far.

We possibly have the worst cover safety duo in the league with rookies that are playing well for rookies but are very overhyped.

bloodsunday · 10-25-2005, 06:06 AM

Yardage totals are nearly worthless. This team is near the bottom in the "play making" categories: 3rd downs, Redzone, INTs, Sacks. And they are average in the most important category: PA. Add it all up and this defense is average in my opinion. What's worse, their play has been tailing off since the day in J'Ville and disappears in the 4th quarter. I wonder if they don't need to make some adjustments.

crazyhorse · 10-25-2005, 06:35 AM

Browncos?

Mile High Shack · 10-25-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

Browncos?

point?

the people we signed from Cleveland aren't the problem

so far it's our passing defense that totally sucks this year

crazyhorse · 10-25-2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

point?

the people we signed from Cleveland aren't the problem

so far it's our passing defense that totally sucks this year

No point. Just a question.

What about sacks?

10-24-2005, 08:17 PM	#1
dlow187 Solid Starter Im all about Boats & Hoes! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 146	Thoughts on Coyer & Def stats Coyer needsa new scheme or he needs to go. Not a Completly new scheme, keeping what works and scraping what dont but one that makes adjustments to what the other team is doing. Through out this season i find myself questioning his play calling. But what do I know, he's the one getting paid to worry about it right? I just have so many questions for him. Whats with all the delayed blitzes? If your gonna blitz then just send em. Why do you zone blitz when we dont have any linemen fast enough to cover? When you blitz why do you play so much zone? We are getting outscored horribly in the fourth quarter this year 68-29 As we all know the 4th quarter play calling cost us this game, and almost the NE game and almost the Skins game. Heres some intresting stats 5th in league vs. run 25th in league vs. pass 14th in league scoring defense 26th in league total yrds 27nd in league in ints 32nd in league in sacks 5th in league in turnover diff 31st in league in defensive red Zone scoring 22nd in league in 3rd down conversion

10-24-2005, 08:31 PM	#6
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,505 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	The Pass Defense and Total Yardage stats are artificially inflated since we have been ahead by double digits in every game since San Diego, forcing teams to pass all the time which will naturally inflate their stats. Coyer does a good job with the club. Not perfect but he is still a very good defensive coordinator. I'll never forgive him for what he did to my boy, but as a Defensive Coordinator he is still a top notch guy. He put together a top unit with a bunch of scrubs in 2003, and without our very best player, he had a top 5 defense in 2004. We have all seen how good his defense has been this year. His schemes are working. We do tend to back off a little late, but I dont think we have backed off too much. We were still blitzing a plenty in the fourth quarter against New York. They did a better job picking them up and were aided by the referees taking an extremely conservative interpretation of holding. Warren was busting through there, we were getting pressure before they started holding repeatedly. Coyer is a fine coach, although we do need to get better in the red zone and on third down. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

10-24-2005, 08:59 PM	#12
DarkHorse30 Smith Rules Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,094 Adopt-a-Bronco: wolf pot roast	blame the defense.... I agree completely with the idea that our defense is lacking. Look at what Denver's D did on that last drive: 1-10-NYG17 (3:29) E.Manning pass incomplete to T.Barber. 2-10-NYG17 (3:24) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to P.Burress to NYG 23 for 6 yards (A.Wilson). 3-4-NYG23 (2:54) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to P.Burress to NYG 29 for 6 yards (D.Foxworth, Da.Williams).DEN-Da.Williams was injured during the play. 1-10-NYG29 (2:13) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to NYG 36 for 7 yards (A.Wilson, N.Ferguson). 2-3-NYG36 (2:00) T.Barber up the middle to NYG 42 for 6 yards (A.Wilson). 1-10-NYG42 (1:45) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to T.Barber to DEN 49 for 9 yards (D.Foxworth, I.Gold). 2-1-DEN49 (1:23) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to DEN 44 for 5 yards (A.Wilson, C.Bailey). 1-10-DEN44 (1:01) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer to DEN 35 for 9 yards (I.Gold, A.Wilson). 2-1-DEN35 (:51) T.Barber up the middle to DEN 32 for 3 yards (I.Gold). 1-10-DEN32 (:36) E.Manning pass incomplete to P.Burress. 2-10-DEN32 (:34) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete to T.Carter. 3-10-DEN32 (:27) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass to J.Shockey pushed ob at DEN 8 for 24 yards (I.Gold). 1-8-DEN8 (:21) E.Manning pass incomplete to A.Toomer. 2-8-DEN8 (:17) E.Manning pass to T.Barber to DEN 2 for 6 yards (J.Lynch). 3-2-DEN2 (:10) E.Manning pass to A.Toomer for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Look at how many yards the Gints were getting on first down around mid-field. Nine yards twice in a row. Brilliant You can blame it on the offense for not making third downs....but scoring 23 on the road, and holding the ball for 34 minutes is NOT forcing your defense on the field. Our defense is NOT getting it done in the 4th quarter. Coyer needs to grasp a clue if he wants to build a championship defense. The talent is there....the coaching is NOT.

10-25-2005, 04:23 AM	#21
DB-Freak The lone sack artist Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,995	Coyer has been attacking very aggressively. The reason I think we use delayed blitzing is because our LBs are speed reliant unlike Romo who could bust through the line. If Champ hasn't sucking his thumb against Plexiglass in the endzone and Nick Ferguson actually moves and does something, this conversion wouldn't be even taking place. And about the talent, I think it's pretty overrated. So far nobody has proven to be a surefire stud expect maybe CHamp and Warren and Pryce. I think they are borderline so far. We possibly have the worst cover safety duo in the league with rookies that are playing well for rookies but are very overhyped. Last edited by DB-Freak; 10-25-2005 at 04:25 AM..

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10-24-2005, 08:25 PM	#2
dlow187 Solid Starter Im all about Boats & Hoes! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 146	^^^^^^^^^^^all defensive stats^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

10-24-2005, 08:30 PM	#4
ncjmirabile Spiderman 3's Gwen Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Princeton, WV Posts: 339	Denver is also 2nd in passes defensed. Top five in QB hurries and top five in the give away/take away. All this leads me to believe is that Denver is tough to figure out.

10-24-2005, 08:32 PM	#7
dlow187 Solid Starter Im all about Boats & Hoes! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 146	[QUOTE=ncjmirabile]top five in the give away/take away. QUOTE] thats what turnover diff is

10-24-2005, 08:39 PM	#8
listopencil [sarcasm]text[/sarcasm] BOOM! Winner. Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The People's Republic Of California Posts: 8,580 Adopt-a-Bronco: Broncos FO	I've seen what our D looks like with bad DC's. This D is well coached. If we had Robinson or Rhodes instead we would be sucking hind teat in a huge way. Getting rid of Coyer would be a catastrophic mistake.

10-24-2005, 09:20 PM	#18
ludo21 RIP Darrent Williams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 17,976 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Ernster	Coyer has done a fine job. I agree with everythingt SoCal said, but it was an EXTREMELY bad officiating crew and it cost us many times. Im pretty much done bashing the refs, but one thing puzzles me, why didnt the CBS crew replay Burress "catch" (i dont think it was)? They usually replay that stuff constantly to check and make sure the call was correct, and for the announcers to have something to talk about. I can understand the refs bypassing a chance to challenge, and the booth not doing anyhting, but why not show a replay like that over and over again? It was pretty crucial IMO. Back to the topic.......... it came down to execution and the D didnt do it. The delayed blitzes worked pretty well Sunday so what are you talkinga bout?

10-24-2005, 09:28 PM	#19
ecnal15 Broncos 4 Life Ultimate Bronco Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 87	there are only two things I have noticed during the games that bothers me. When we blitz our cb's play way to far off. They should be playing tight and the safetys should be creaping in to stop the TE's. Also when we get into the redzone we play zone coverage and our DB's are watching the QB instead of the WR's (example washington game final touchdown) We should have guys manned up on the WR's and just our safety's in zone protect.(example washington game 2pt conversion)

10-24-2005, 09:38 PM	#20
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,427	If we do replace Coyer let's get a proven guy with great scheme's. I think we should get Coyer 2 studs at S and see what we can do first before we hope he is or should be replaced.

10-25-2005, 06:06 AM	#22
bloodsunday Ring of Famer Nothing lasts forever. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dove Valley Posts: 5,839 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	Yardage totals are nearly worthless. This team is near the bottom in the "play making" categories: 3rd downs, Redzone, INTs, Sacks. And they are average in the most important category: PA. Add it all up and this defense is average in my opinion. What's worse, their play has been tailing off since the day in J'Ville and disappears in the 4th quarter. I wonder if they don't need to make some adjustments.

10-25-2005, 06:35 AM	#23
crazyhorse All Motor!! You can only hope to contain me Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,338	Browncos?