Skin Fans: Tell me why you think your defense can shut down our running game

[footstepsfrom#27]

The key to Washington winning this game is shutting down Denver's running game and forcing Jake Plummer to pass in hopes that he will throw some interceptions. If Denver runs the ball they win this game. I don't think many Skns fans would dispute that. The Skins have not beaten a team that finished the year (that same year) above .500 on the road since November 2002, and this will be one of ther their stiffest tests. Denver is no bargain at home.

From 2003 until now...the stretch I'm looking at because the players were mostly the same on offense, our running game has been effectively shut down very few times. In looking back over these games I noticed something interesting. If you factor out games in which the Broncos got far behind early and abandoned their running game, (Kansas City last year for example), as well as games in which we essentially had no feature back carrying the ball; ie...during the failed Quentin Griffin experiment (though Q did have some success also), only four teams have actually shut our running game down. By "shutting down" I mean that the run should have been used but was not a viable weapon because we couldn't move the ball on the ground. Holding them to 120 yards doens't count as "shutting them down". San Diego held the Broncos to under a hundred yards this year but I did not include that because both Anderson and Bell were hurt for that game, even though MIke played and was ineffective. Denver's running game has only been "shut down" a total of four times in the last 35 games, by Pittsburgh and Baltimore in 2003, San Diego in 2004 and Miami this year. Those are four of the best run defenses in the NFL. The Miami game is also an aberation, because Anderson got hurt early in the game. However because Tatum Bell was available I included them in this list of teams that shut us down. I think Shanny failed to use Bell properly but that's beside the point. Notice something about these three games that all three opponents have in common: the size of their interior defensive line, especially at the NT position.

Oct 12/2003 Pittsburgh/Casey Hampton 6'1" 325...18 carries/77 yards/4.3 ypc...but Rod Smith gained 26 yards on one carry.

Oct 26/2003 Baltimore/Ma'ake Kemoeatu 6'5" 350...27 carries/104 yards/3.9 ypc...Portis had 22 for 86, well under his avg.

Dec 5/2003, San Diego/Jamall Williams, 6'3", 348

Sept 11/2005 Miami/Keith Traylor 6'2" 340

In a nutshell the only teams that have effectively eliminated Denver's running game as a viable weapon when it was appropriate for the run to be used are Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego and Miami and all four have large run stuffing DT/NT guys that seem to give our interior O-Line trouble. It's also true that Denver has run very well on teams that do have players that fit that mold, the obvious example being the Raiders. So it isn't just about size, but talent as well. The point however, is that no team without a large and talented interior DT or NT has shut this running game down in the last two seasons. Some teams that have large and talented NT's or DT's have still not shut them down.

The queston is this: Washington's best interior D-linemen is Cornelius Griffin, who is average size by NFL standards for a defensive tackle, at 6'3" 300. He is also very good. His bio on the Skins site notes:

2004: In his first season in Washington, Griffin was a dominant force on the inside. He started 15 games and recorded a career-high 96 tackles and led the team with 15 tackles for a loss. He was also tied for the team lead with six sacks. He was named a fourth alternate for the Pro Bowl.

The question is this: Can Washington do what no other NFL team has done against the current Denver offense? Can they shut down this running game without a massive interior DT or NT? Doing so will be key to forcing Jake Plumer to pass.

Give me your thoughts...and if you think the Skins can do what nobody else has done, tell me why, not "our defense is ranked...", or "Gibbs is a better coach...", etc...

I want hard answers on how the Skins without a massive interior lineman can do what no other team without that asset has been able to do in the Jake Plummer era.

As a side note, I also looked at Jake Plummer's passing performances in games where the Denver offense was unable, for whatever reason to run. Here are his numbers from those games:

Detroit- 25/34, 277 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INTs
Jacksonville- 25/39, 250 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INTs
San Diego- 25/36, 294 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INTs
Tampa Bay- 13/31, 138, 1 TD, 0 INTs
Atlanta- 31/55, 499 yards, 4 TD's, 3 TDs
San Diego- 16/40, 263, 0 TDs, 4 INTs
Miami- 22/48, 251, 0 TDs, 1 INT

Totals: 157/283, 1,969 yards, 55.4%, 9 TD's, 8 INTs

Obviously Jake's had his worst games when the Broncos can't run, however in 4 of these games he did not throw an INT and had only 1 in another, leaving 7 of his 8 INT's for only two games, and in one of those two games he threw more TD's than INT's while racking up a 500 yard game. So the point here is this; stopping the run and forcing Jake to pass is a great game plan. Two problems; 1) the Skins do not have a massive inside defensive lineman, and 2) when Jake has been forced to throw after the Denver run game stalls, in only 2 out of 7 games has he been the proverbial turnover machine that defenses are hoping for.

[Broncoman13]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

The key to Washington winning this game is shutting down Denver's running game and forcing Jake Plummer to pass in hopes that he will throw some interceptions. If Denver runs the ball they win this game. I don't think many Skns fans would dispute that. The Skins have not beaten a team that finished the year (that same year) above .500 on the road since November 2002, and this will be one of ther their stiffest tests. Denver is no bargain at home.

Don't know if you robbed this from a website or what... if you did shame on you for no posting a link! Otherwise, rep for one helluva post!

[RedskinBronco]

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by OSKIE

Don't know if you robbed this from a website or what... if you did shame on you for no posting a link! Otherwise, rep for one helluva post!

Nope...wife's at her moms with the kids...lots of time to do...not much of anything! Letterman + OM...

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.

You're not answering the question I asked. Can you?

[WarriorSpirit]

Griffin is a dominant lineman and the rest, Salavea, Wynn and Daniels are primarily run stoppers. That is the strength of our line, they are all big bodied, stay at home defenders. The weakness is pass rush, other than Griff, who had 6 sacks last year and 1 so far this year, we don't get a lot of pressure from the line. We used a lot of blitzes to get pressure last year but we haven't been doing that this season. I'm not sure why but that is our only complaint about our Defense this year.
This game is a classic strength against strength type game and that is why I think it will be close.

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

You're not answering the question I asked. Can you?

Well the Redskins had the active streak for most games without giving up 100 yds rushing (7). Shaun Alexander didn't get 100 yds but the seahawks did. He didnt do much at all in fact. He had a 30 yd run because someone missed a tackle which is rare with the skins. It might have been the rookie Carlos Rogers. I was at the game so I can tell you Alexander was stuffed pretty good. He was stopped for 1 or 2 yd gains the whole day except for that 30 yarder and a couple of decent 7-10 yd runs. I didn't think the skins played their best defensive game. In fact it might have been their worse in a long time, which is saying a lot because they weren't really bad at all. The seahawks basically started throwing the whole time. In fact Hasselbeck 3 stepped dropped us to death. Like I said, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell won't run too well on sunday. It's not them, it's just the skins are ridiculous at stopping the run. They want you in 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 10 all game long. That;s what makes them effective. Like I said, Plummer will have to beat them and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think plummer is playing well enough to do so. With the Denver defense playing like it is, all plummer has to do is put up about 17 pts. Its not an easy task against the skins, but I think they'll get it.

[SkinsandTerps]

Personally, I cant predict if the Broncos will finish above .500 this season.

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.

I am not saying that the Broncos cant have a hundred yard rusher (although it is unlikely), I am saying that it wont be the same as facing the Jags who are 30th in the league against the rush, or the pitiful Chiefs D who has never been able to stop the run.

Anderson and Bell had great games against those defenses. But they are not run stopping teams to begin with. Miami is, San Diego is.

I am hoping, for and expect, a tough, gritty game.

Here's to an injury free game. Win or lose. I will be here Sunday night or Monday morning (usually I am either celebrating or drowning my sorrows, so most likely Monday).

[SkinsandTerps]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.

Like I stated in my post, the Redskins even with giving up a 100 yds to a rusher, havent lost by more than 9 points.

So I wouldnt expect the Redskins to lose big regardless.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by WarriorSpirit

Griffin is a dominant lineman and the rest, Salavea, Wynn and Daniels are primarily run stoppers. That is the strength of our line, they are all big bodied, stay at home defenders. The weakness is pass rush, other than Griff, who had 6 sacks last year and 1 so far this year, we don't get a lot of pressure from the line. We used a lot of blitzes to get pressure last year but we haven't been doing that this season. I'm not sure why but that is our only complaint about our Defense this year.
This game is a classic strength against strength type game and that is why I think it will be close.

By "big bodies" I expect to see 330 pounders, but your D-Line averages 293 lbs per man, making them one of the few lines we will see this year that we actually have a size advantage against (299-293). Again...you're not answering my question. Only teams with big interior run stuffers, not small to medium sized guys...have been able to shut down this running game. What does Washington have that makes you think they will be the only team to break that trend?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

Well the Redskins had the active streak for most games without giving up 100 yds rushing (7). Shaun Alexander didn't get 100 yds but the seahawks did. He didnt do much at all in fact. He had a 30 yd run because someone missed a tackle which is rare with the skins. It might have been the rookie Carlos Rogers. I was at the game so I can tell you Alexander was stuffed pretty good. He was stopped for 1 or 2 yd gains the whole day except for that 30 yarder and a couple of decent 7-10 yd runs. I didn't think the skins played their best defensive game. In fact it might have been their worse in a long time, which is saying a lot because they weren't really bad at all. The seahawks basically started throwing the whole time. In fact Hasselbeck 3 stepped dropped us to death. Like I said, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell won't run too well on sunday. It's not them, it's just the skins are ridiculous at stopping the run. They want you in 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 10 all game long. That;s what makes them effective. Like I said, Plummer will have to beat them and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think plummer is playing well enough to do so. With the Denver defense playing like it is, all plummer has to do is put up about 17 pts. Its not an easy task against the skins, but I think they'll get it.

All that is fine but you aren't playing Seattle are you? You're playing the team that leads the NFL in rushing during the last 10 years. The only defenses that have shut their run down have massive interior defensive tackles. Not all those teams have done so either (Jacksonville) but the ones who have shut them down have big slabs of beef in the middle. Washington doesn't. So why do you think...other than..."we shut down Seattle"...etc...that you will break this trend?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by SkinsandTerps

Personally, I cant predict if the Broncos will finish above .500 this season.

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.

The problem with the answers I'm getting here are that they don't take into consideration that this team doesn't run like other teams. Our blocking schemes are different, our style is different, our entire philosophy on running the ball is different. Only one kind of defense has stopped this running game, and you don't have that kind of defense. I think many of the other defenses we played were disciplined, had LB's with speed, etc...but that didn't matter. Why do you think the Skins will be different when they don't have a big interior line?

[ludo21]

Whats amazing footsteps is you point out all the lines and Defenses that stopped us. BUT just last game we dominated Henderson and Stroud!! Easily the best 1-2 combo of Dt's in the league, that is the main reason im pumped to go against this "so called" run stuffing Defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by SkinsandTerps

Like I stated in my post, the Redskins even with giving up a 100 yds to a rusher, havent lost by more than 9 points.

So I wouldnt expect the Redskins to lose big regardless.

Fine...But can you answer the original question I asked?

[2KBack]

They've answered it, disciplined gap control.

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

All that is fine but you aren't playing Seattle are you? You're playing the team that leads the NFL in rushing during the last 10 years. The only defenses that have shut their run down have massive interior defensive tackles. Not all those teams have done so either (Jacksonville) but the ones who have shut them down have big slabs of beef in the middle. Washington doesn't. So why do you think...other than..."we shut down Seattle"...etc...that you will break this trend?

I guess we'll have to see. I watch both teams closely and I think the Redskins will neutralize Anderson and Bell. This defense is a lot better than you're imagining. Any game can be different than the norm, but the Redskins D is pretty darn consistent. I've watched many Denver games and there are teams that stop the run against the broncos. Remember, that's what is the root of the problem in Denver. Can Jake actually play mistake free and create some offense when the team needs it? We've been arguing about it for 2 yrs running now. Now so far this year, the Denver D has been ridiculous (other than the miami game) and that seems to take pressure of Jake. He no longer has to try and do too much. With that D, just play mistake free and chances are you win. I can't really tell you much more. I guess just watch the game. I could be wrong. Nothing is guaranteed, but the skins are tougher than you think. I watch both teams all the time and I have a pretty good idea as to who can do what against the other. Of course Im no expert, but Im just posting based on what I see.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by ludo21

Whats amazing footsteps is you point out all the lines and Defenses that stopped us. BUT just last game we dominated Henderson and Stroud!! Easily the best 1-2 combo of Dt's in the league, that is the main reason im pumped to go against this "so called" run stuffing Defense.

That's correct, which is why I noted that having big run stuffers doesn't neccessarily garantee success against this running game, but all those teams that have had success had big interior linemen. Washington will actually be one of the smaller D-lines we face this year.

[SkinsandTerps]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

The problem with the answers I'm getting here are that they don't take into consideration that this team doesn't run like other teams. Our blocking schemes are different, our style is different, our entire philosophy on running the ball is different. Only one kind of defense has stopped this running game, and you don't have that kind of defense. I think many of the other defenses we played were disciplined, had LB's with speed, etc...but that didn't matter. Why do you think the Skins will be different when they don't have a big interior line?

So now I have a question,
Who do you think stops the run Better than the Redskins ?

[Odysseus]

I doubt any Denver running back breaks 100 yards but the combined force of Anderson, Bell, and Dayne most probably will. The put up nearly 200 yards on a good Jaguars defense. This still doesn't mean a win for Denver.

The first QB to get knocked off his pins loses. If Redskins can't stop Jake on the bootleg they are going to get chewed up. If Broncos can't protect the post and force Brunell into throwing some bad balls they are going to lose. It will come down to TOP and turnovers.

On paper these teams are close but if our fans kick in the Broncos could be suddenly lauded as more than what they are kind of like what's going on with San Diego. Personally I hope the Broncos never get press accolades...only jewely and trophys.

[ludo21]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

That's correct, which is why I noted that having big run stuffers doesn't neccessarily garantee success against this running game, but all those teams that have had success had big interior linemen. Washington will actually be one of the smaller D-lines we face this year.

They are disciplined, which will help them. But being disciplined will not help if our OL keeps gettng a consistent push and getting to the next level of the LB's. Should be fun for sure.

[SkinsandTerps]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Fine...But can you answer the original question I asked?

That response wasnt to you. It was for RedskinBronco.

I think I answered your question, and now I have posted one for you.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

I guess we'll have to see. I watch both teams closely and I think the Redskins will neutralize Anderson and Bell. This defense is a lot better than you're imagining. Any game can be different than the norm, but the Redskins D is pretty darn consistent. I've watched many Denver games and there are teams that stop the run against the broncos.

If you are answering my question by disputing my data, I invite you to check out each and every game and its rushing stats over the last two years going back to the beginning of 2003, because that is what I did before I posted this. The teams you saw shut them down are already listed, along with the ones that shut them down when it was possible for Denver to either continue to run or we had a feature back in the game.

Remember, that's what is the root of the problem in Denver. Can Jake actually play mistake free and create some offense when the team needs it? We've been arguing about it for 2 yrs running now. Now so far this year, the Denver D has been ridiculous (other than the miami game) and that seems to take pressure of Jake. He no longer has to try and do too much. With that D, just play mistake free and chances are you win. I can't really tell you much more. I guess just watch the game. I could be wrong. Nothing is guaranteed, but the skins are tougher than you think. I watch both teams all the time and I have a pretty good idea as to who can do what against the other. Of course Im no expert, but Im just posting based on what I see.

I noted in the original post that Jake has had only 2 out of 7 games where he turned the ball over a lot, and in one of those he threw over 50 times for almost 500 yards and threw 4 TD's to go with the 3 picks. So the question about wheter Jake can "catually play mistake free and create some offense", has essentially been answered by these past performances. Plummer has had more good games than bad when Denver's run has been stopped.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by SkinsandTerps

So now I have a question,
Who do you think stops the run Better than the Redskins ?

Against this offense? I explained that already...teams like Baltimore, San Diego, Miami and Pittsburgh...all who have big interior linemen.

It's all about matchups. The Skins don't match up well against this running game.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Against this offense? I explained that already...teams like Baltimore, San Diego, Miami and Pittsburgh...all who have big interior linemen.

It's all about matchups. The Skins don't match up well against this running game.

I really don't see how you can say that without Denver having ever faced this Defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by SkinsandTerps

That response wasnt to you. It was for RedskinBronco.

I think I answered your question, and now I have posted one for you.

Ok...lets see what you answered:

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.

I am not saying that the Broncos cant have a hundred yard rusher (although it is unlikely), I am saying that it wont be the same as facing the Jags who are 30th in the league against the rush, or the pitiful Chiefs D who has never been able to stop the run.

Anderson and Bell had great games against those defenses. But they are not run stopping teams to begin with. Miami is, San Diego is.

Your answer consists of three things:

1) Washington has a disciplined defense
2) Washington hasn't given up a 100 day to another runner in 9 games (I think it's actually 8 games)
3) Washington has speed on defense

Those are all great answers, except that they fail to address the fact that other teams that were playing well, had disciplined defenses and team speed on defense have failed to stop this running game unless they had big interior linemen. So actually you haven't given me much of a real answer.

I would not assume that Jax has a bad run defense. They're ranking is low because it's early in the year and they gave up 188 yards to our running game. They were tough against the run last year with the same players, finishing 11th against the run and 3rd in rushing TD's given up.