Did we trade Ashley Lelie? - The Orange Mane

DarkHorse · 10-03-2005, 08:00 AM

Just wondering since I haven't seen the guy since PreSeason.

DarkHorse · 10-03-2005, 08:01 AM

Actually - did we trade the playbook that contained all of our passes over 10 yards - maybe that was it.

Got a 4th rounder for our "over 10 yards pass plays"

bendog · 10-03-2005, 08:02 AM

He made a great clutch catch for a first down early on, and I think he hurt a lower leg. Late in the game Jake hung one deep for him, and it didn't look like he had that sixth gear.

DarkHorse30 · 10-03-2005, 08:15 AM

I think Shanahan cut down his playbook against really good defenses. Lelie was open for bombs against KC but Plummer missed him. He'll be around again, but Denver is opening up against some serious defense this year. Jacksonville is #2 passing defense.....and you didn't see Plummer test that very much. Just a lot of the short outs (which I'm seeing quite a bit more of this year)....and seams for the TEs. A good strategy to keep rolling the chains.

Odysseus · 10-03-2005, 08:20 AM

I think it's funny. Lelie is getting open. We see it. The DC sees it. I'm sure the coachs see it. My question is are they intentionally banking that or is Jake unable to gun it.

RaiderH8r · 10-03-2005, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiettiger

I think it's funny. Lelie is getting open. We see it. The DC sees it. I'm sure the coachs see it. My question is are they intentionally banking that or is Jake unable to gun it.

I think Jake's being reeled in. He took sacks yesterday that would have been left handed passes in the previous two years. It seems he's less willing to force something and just take the sure bets and cut down on TO's. The INT talk must have gotten to him.

bendog · 10-03-2005, 08:25 AM

Maybe shanny is making him wear one of those electrical dog training collars. He gives him a little juice for the warning, but if he goes lefthanded or starts to look like he'll stick it into coverage, Shanny gives him the juice.

DarkHorse · 10-03-2005, 08:47 AM

Don't get me wrong - we're winning and all but....... Lelie bashers are going to have a field day if this keeps up.

WTF is it with Bell

This guys is our starting tailback yet I still see Anderson in there. Arrrrrgh

westcliffe · 10-03-2005, 08:57 AM

Anderson is the starter, not Bell.

westcliffe · 10-03-2005, 08:58 AM

Bell won't start until he begins to block better and catch passes better. Two things he really needs to improve on, in my opinion.

bendog · 10-03-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcliffe

Bell won't start until he begins to block better and catch passes better. Two things he really needs to improve on, in my opinion.

yeah, he missed at least one block yesterday. That's a major no-no with Shanny.

Ninjafied · 10-03-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiettiger

I think it's funny. Lelie is getting open. We see it. The DC sees it. I'm sure the coachs see it. My question is are they intentionally banking that or is Jake unable to gun it.

I remember at sometime during the Miami game Jake was scrambling and Lelie took off down the field. Jake made the long pass, Lelie let up because he didn’t think he could bomb it on the run and it ended up going over his head. It would have been an easy 7 (instead I think is was 3 and out).
It’s definitely the coaches and not Jake’s ability. And that seems to be a good thing right now - who can argue with the W column? We’ll see what happens when we’re down 10 with 5min to play.

OrangeShadow · 10-03-2005, 09:25 AM

Jakes not taking as many chances thats all. We are kind or mirroring Pitt. Run it play D ask jake to just manage the game

The Big E · 10-03-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

I think Shanahan cut down his playbook against really good defenses. Lelie was open for bombs against KC but Plummer missed him. He'll be around again, but Denver is opening up against some serious defense this year. Jacksonville is #2 passing defense.....and you didn't see Plummer test that very much. Just a lot of the short outs (which I'm seeing quite a bit more of this year)....and seams for the TEs. A good strategy to keep rolling the chains.

I agree with this assessment, especially for the Jax game. Jake's hit Lelie plenty of times deep since he's been here, and it's just a matter of time before they hook up again. Jake's missed him a few times, but I'm really not worried about it. This week's game will probably be played pretty close to the vest because I'm sure everyone is expecting a defensive game.

NYBroncoManiac · 10-03-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcliffe

Bell won't start until he begins to block better and catch passes better. Two things he really needs to improve on, in my opinion.

I would also suggest he learn how to run over the middle.

BroncoFanDoug · 10-03-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Maybe shanny is making him wear one of those electrical dog training collars. He gives him a little juice for the warning, but if he goes lefthanded or starts to look like he'll stick it into coverage, Shanny gives him the juice.

I just spite up my diet Coke!

Popps · 10-03-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeShadow

Jakes not taking as many chances thats all. We are kind or mirroring Pitt. Run it play D ask jake to just manage the game

Bingo.

You have to love these people around here who get offended because Jake throws too many picks, and then b**** that we're not chucking the ball up for grabs enough when we start playing a ball-control offense.

You guys want long bombs? Expect more INTs. Jake is going to have LESS passing yards and LESS long throws this year. He's been instructed to play a conservative game and make plays when they're there.... and he's doing a great job of it.

Popps · 10-03-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHorse

Just wondering since I haven't seen the guy since PreSeason.

He's a novelty receiver who seems to have trouble being where he's supposed to be. I hope I'm wrong... but it doesn't look like this guy will ever even be a solid #2, much less a replacement for Rod.

I never understood the pick in the first place. A skinny, one-dinemsional WR with the 15th pick for an offense that's thrived with tough WRs like Smith and Eddie?

It's kind of like the Pierce pick. It made no sense then, and makes no sense now.

But, drafting isn't an exact science and our staff has certainly drafted a bunch of guys that had success, against popular opinion. Look at the D. Williams pick. I was less than thrilled with that, to say the least. Now, I couldn't be happier about it.

Jason in LA · 10-03-2005, 12:50 PM

The game plans are being made to limit the mistakes, as it was said above. That means less chances for Lelie. I'm a big Lelie fan, but I'm a bigger fan of running the ball. That's what the Broncos did the past two games when they had the lead. They had good balance early in both games, than just ran all day in the 2nd halves. Plummer hasn't passed for 200 yards in either games, but they've won both games, and looked good doing it.

Lelie would have an extra 80+ yards and two TDs if Plummer had hit him on two deep passes against the Chiefs. Lelie had beat the D pretty bad, but Plummer's passes were off. I'd say Plummer threw only 3 bad passes that entire game. Two on the bombs to Lelie, and one in coverage on a short pass.

I can live with the low stats in the passing games if they keep winning the way they have since the 2nd half of the SD game.

Vegas_Bronco · 10-03-2005, 12:52 PM

The real question is 'did we trade all of our 100 yard rushers?' Mike Anderson was the first Broncos HB this season to go over 100 yards this season......YESTERDAY IN WEEK FOUR!?! How indutible is that of true Bronco nature?

You'd have to say that is about as rare as Lelie with no big grabs yet this season. My thoughts: our defense is awesome and so the offense doesn't have to be, yet!

Hulamau · 10-03-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps

Bingo.

You have to love these people around here who get offended because Jake throws too many picks, and then b**** that we're not chucking the ball up for grabs enough when we start playing a ball-control offense.

You guys want long bombs? Expect more INTs. Jake is going to have LESS passing yards and LESS long throws this year. He's been instructed to play a conservative game and make plays when they're there.... and he's doing a great job of it.

I agree with that Popps, its clear that with this defense and Jakes particular talents, one of which has never been long ball accuracy, they arent tossing it up long for obvious reasons.

The thing that gets me is, when some folks blame Lelie for the situation, it's just the way this team is built right now around Plummer. Lelie dropped one sure TD in the first game that was totally his fault, but has otherwise been solid the past three games. He's open often and has blocked like a fiend in the run game.

In both the KC game and yesterdays game Lelie basically took their best corner out of the game on most plays, but its clear the goal is to play to Jake's strengths now that we have the defense to get him the ball back, which is fine.

We're lucky Lelie isn't a TO or Moss type that would certainly be b****ing to high heaven by now for a trade.

I just hope we dont take it for granted, and really focus on syncing Plummer up with those long balls in practice cause we ARE going to need to connect on those before this is over.

DarkHorse · 10-03-2005, 01:07 PM

I disagree with Bell - strongly. I'll rewatch the game(s) tonight on TiVo, I think the guy runs hard, blocks pretty well, and I don't understand the receiving knocks he's getting unless you're basing them off of last year. This is a new year and the guy is showing me the ability to run inside, make people miss, pick up a yard or 2 more with tough running, leg drive, speed (duh), ability to cut back etc..... If MA is better - it's only by a hair IMO.

Eh, we're winning that's all that matters I guess.

Lidderer · 10-03-2005, 01:13 PM

It strikes me as a bit peculiar to suggest that Lelie's drop in numbers this season are somehow due to the broncos taking not of jake's limitations. He was the QB last year when lelie averaged over 20 yards a catch, no? Did I miss the part in training camp where it dawned on coaching staff and fan alike that "oh wait, actually, he shouldn't throw the deep ball!"?

How many deep passes has their been, really? And what would be a reasonable guess as to the avg. completion pct. of long passes league-wide?

From what I can gather, jake's 'missed' lelie 3 times, and Lelie made a poor adjustment in the miami game. So, what then, 1-for-4*? Also, Lelie refused to break in on the ball vs Jax and did seem to be suffering effects from that earlier leg-injury.

As Popps said, he's a novelty reciever, and we seem to be less enamoured with his ability as evinced by the play-calling as of late.

Popps · 10-03-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulamau

I just hope we dont take it for granted, and really focus on syncing Plummer up with those long balls in practice cause we ARE going to need to connect on those before this is over.

Actually, Lelie did mess up one other long-ball in game one. (Ran back into a defender) Jake missed him for a couple, as well.

My point with Lelie has been this.... even when Griese was here, he never seems to have good chemistry with his QB. Griese always looked better throwing to Smith and the tight ends. Now, Plummer seems to have better chemistry with Smith, the tight ends and even Adams than he does Lelie.
The guy is a first round pick, so I just had higher hopes for him. We need someone to step into Rod's role, and he's clearly not that guy. I suppose if he can establish himself as a good #2 or a guy who stretches the field, we'll just have to be happy with that.

Like I said, I just wish for the sake of satisfying curiosity.... we'd send Adams or Watts on a few deep post or fly routes and let Plummer put it up there for them. It would be interesting to see if the chemistry is any different. Personally, I think it would be.

Liebs · 10-03-2005, 02:15 PM

i would put just as much on plummer as I would on Lelie. plummer's attempt at throwing the long ball has been flat out pathetic this year. I mean, not even close.

10-03-2005, 08:00 AM	#1
DarkHorse RPM Racer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 4,680 Adopt-a-Bronco: Kenny McKinley	Did we trade Ashley Lelie? Just wondering since I haven't seen the guy since PreSeason.

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10-03-2005, 08:01 AM	#2
DarkHorse RPM Racer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 4,680 Adopt-a-Bronco: Kenny McKinley	Actually - did we trade the playbook that contained all of our passes over 10 yards - maybe that was it. Got a 4th rounder for our "over 10 yards pass plays"

10-03-2005, 08:02 AM	#3
bendog Marginally Continent David Bowens, he'd be an upgrade Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 19,935 Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens	He made a great clutch catch for a first down early on, and I think he hurt a lower leg. Late in the game Jake hung one deep for him, and it didn't look like he had that sixth gear.

10-03-2005, 08:15 AM	#4
DarkHorse30 Smith Rules Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,091 Adopt-a-Bronco: wolf pot roast	I think Shanahan cut down his playbook against really good defenses. Lelie was open for bombs against KC but Plummer missed him. He'll be around again, but Denver is opening up against some serious defense this year. Jacksonville is #2 passing defense.....and you didn't see Plummer test that very much. Just a lot of the short outs (which I'm seeing quite a bit more of this year)....and seams for the TEs. A good strategy to keep rolling the chains.

10-03-2005, 08:20 AM	#5
Odysseus Fan of the home team Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 12,107 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mark Schlereth	I think it's funny. Lelie is getting open. We see it. The DC sees it. I'm sure the coachs see it. My question is are they intentionally banking that or is Jake unable to gun it.

10-03-2005, 08:25 AM	#7
bendog Marginally Continent David Bowens, he'd be an upgrade Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 19,935 Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens	Maybe shanny is making him wear one of those electrical dog training collars. He gives him a little juice for the warning, but if he goes lefthanded or starts to look like he'll stick it into coverage, Shanny gives him the juice.

10-03-2005, 08:47 AM	#8
DarkHorse RPM Racer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 4,680 Adopt-a-Bronco: Kenny McKinley	Don't get me wrong - we're winning and all but....... Lelie bashers are going to have a field day if this keeps up. WTF is it with Bell This guys is our starting tailback yet I still see Anderson in there. Arrrrrgh

10-03-2005, 08:57 AM	#9
westcliffe Greetings from 8000 feet High in the Sangres Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Westcliffe, Colorado Posts: 261	Anderson is the starter, not Bell.

10-03-2005, 08:58 AM	#10
westcliffe Greetings from 8000 feet High in the Sangres Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Westcliffe, Colorado Posts: 261	Bell won't start until he begins to block better and catch passes better. Two things he really needs to improve on, in my opinion.

10-03-2005, 09:25 AM	#13
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	Jakes not taking as many chances thats all. We are kind or mirroring Pitt. Run it play D ask jake to just manage the game

10-03-2005, 12:50 PM	#19
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	The game plans are being made to limit the mistakes, as it was said above. That means less chances for Lelie. I'm a big Lelie fan, but I'm a bigger fan of running the ball. That's what the Broncos did the past two games when they had the lead. They had good balance early in both games, than just ran all day in the 2nd halves. Plummer hasn't passed for 200 yards in either games, but they've won both games, and looked good doing it. Lelie would have an extra 80+ yards and two TDs if Plummer had hit him on two deep passes against the Chiefs. Lelie had beat the D pretty bad, but Plummer's passes were off. I'd say Plummer threw only 3 bad passes that entire game. Two on the bombs to Lelie, and one in coverage on a short pass. I can live with the low stats in the passing games if they keep winning the way they have since the 2nd half of the SD game.

10-03-2005, 12:52 PM	#20
Vegas_Bronco Ring of Famer Fear is a lack of preparation. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 63 Yards Out Posts: 4,024 Adopt-a-Bronco: 1 Elam 1	The real question is 'did we trade all of our 100 yard rushers?' Mike Anderson was the first Broncos HB this season to go over 100 yards this season......YESTERDAY IN WEEK FOUR!?! How indutible is that of true Bronco nature? You'd have to say that is about as rare as Lelie with no big grabs yet this season. My thoughts: our defense is awesome and so the offense doesn't have to be, yet!

10-03-2005, 01:07 PM	#22
DarkHorse RPM Racer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 4,680 Adopt-a-Bronco: Kenny McKinley	I disagree with Bell - strongly. I'll rewatch the game(s) tonight on TiVo, I think the guy runs hard, blocks pretty well, and I don't understand the receiving knocks he's getting unless you're basing them off of last year. This is a new year and the guy is showing me the ability to run inside, make people miss, pick up a yard or 2 more with tough running, leg drive, speed (duh), ability to cut back etc..... If MA is better - it's only by a hair IMO. Eh, we're winning that's all that matters I guess.

10-03-2005, 01:13 PM	#23
Lidderer & Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,780	It strikes me as a bit peculiar to suggest that Lelie's drop in numbers this season are somehow due to the broncos taking not of jake's limitations. He was the QB last year when lelie averaged over 20 yards a catch, no? Did I miss the part in training camp where it dawned on coaching staff and fan alike that "oh wait, actually, he shouldn't throw the deep ball!"? How many deep passes has their been, really? And what would be a reasonable guess as to the avg. completion pct. of long passes league-wide? From what I can gather, jake's 'missed' lelie 3 times, and Lelie made a poor adjustment in the miami game. So, what then, 1-for-4*? Also, Lelie refused to break in on the ball vs Jax and did seem to be suffering effects from that earlier leg-injury. As Popps said, he's a novelty reciever, and we seem to be less enamoured with his ability as evinced by the play-calling as of late.

10-03-2005, 02:15 PM	#25
Liebs Seasoned Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 352	i would put just as much on plummer as I would on Lelie. plummer's attempt at throwing the long ball has been flat out pathetic this year. I mean, not even close.