What? No CAFTA Thread?

[Rohirrim]

Same old crap. Repugzis shove through another piece of legislation in the middle of the night that will make the rich, richer and the working man, poorer. Ho hum.

[Spider]

. I was getting ready to start one ..... Damn thing nearly passes ..... 217-215
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...on_go_co/cafta
as I see it , it could also open up more shipping lanes for China to piggyback through

[Rohirrim]

I'm sure that all the products we sell to the average El Salvadoran or Costa Rican making an average of $1 a day will more than make up for the textile or manufacturing jobs we lose when some American company moves its production South. But I agree with them. I'd much rather have a villa on the beaches of Costa Rica than anywhere in Mexico.

[Spider]

during this great outsourcing surge , companies are finding out it isnt paradise .. laying off American workers and selling your product in America has a price ....
http://www.cio.com/archive/090103/money.html

[clarker]

I don't know what CAFTA is so I'm going on limb here for sure and don't have time to discuss it all day. Then again my comment I'm about to make is really about CAFTA it is about Dems and there class envey.

But in general when someone gets richer, it doesn't mean someone else gets poorer.
when Oprah(a flamming lib) makes another billion, that doens't make me poorer. Money is not zero sum game. If one person is making money, it doesn't mean they are taking money from someone esle. The Government is the only ones who do that.

This is a big problem I have with the left. They use class envey to get votes.

I have no problem with the paying taxes or social programs that help people get back on their feet, but when I think it is stupid to cry about tax cuts for the rich. 1.Even with loop holes they still pay in the most taxes. 2. The lowest wage earners get tax refunds.

It seems to me that Libs want to go way beyond making sure every one has a equal shot at success and guarentee(sp?) everyone equal results.

I'm not saying there are not things that are unfair, and you want to make sure people are getting paid a good wage for their work. But come on. How does tearing down the wage payer, help the wage earner?

As for as out sourcing goes why can't pass a law requiring buisnesses to pay the same wages they have to pay here to workers they employee over seas.

[Spider]

I have always said , the American worker is one of the best you can ever get ....
alot of cultures you wont get the Dedication , expierence , or hard worker .....
Our education alone puts us a mile ahead .... + Majority of American workers identify themselfs with their Jobs , Hell for along time , I wasnt Spider , I was a trucker .... Pouring everything I had into my Job ..... I am sure there are tons of posters here that do the exact same thing .......

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

I don't know what CAFTA is so I'm going on limb here for sure and don't have time to discuss it all day. Then again my comment I'm about to make is really about CAFTA it is about Dems and there class envey.

But in general when someone gets richer, it doesn't mean someone else gets poorer.
when Oprah(a flamming lib) makes another billion, that doens't make me poorer. Money is not zero sum game. If one person is making money, it doesn't mean they are taking money from someone esle. The Government is the only ones who do that.

This is a big problem I have with the left. They use class envey to get votes.

I have no problem with the paying taxes or social programs that help people get back on their feet, but when I think it is stupid to cry about tax cuts for the rich. 1.Even with loop holes they still pay in the most taxes. 2. The lowest wage earners get tax refunds.

It seems to me that Libs want to go way beyond making sure every one has a equal shot at success and guarentee(sp?) everyone equal results.

I'm not saying there are not things that are unfair, and you want to make sure people are getting paid a good wage for their work. But come on. How does tearing down the wage payer, help the wage earner?

As for as out sourcing goes why can't pass a law requiring buisnesses to pay the same wages they have to pay here to workers they employee over seas.

it is real simple , there is X amount of Monies minted , and X amount of Monies to the GNP ..... if you have top 10% controling that , there is a problem ..... When you have a CEO pulling in 7 figures yearly , then points the finger at a worker saying you are breaking the company cause your hourly wage is too high , then you have a problem ........

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

I have always said , the American worker is one of the best you can ever get ....
alot of cultures you wont get the Dedication , expierence , or hard worker .....
Our education alone puts us a mile ahead .... + Majority of American workers identify themselfs with their Jobs , Hell for along time , I wasnt Spider , I was a trucker .... Pouring everything I had into my Job ..... I am sure there are tons of posters here that do the exact same thing .......

But the reason companies go over seas is to pay a cheaper wage, so if we make them pay what they have to pay here, that takes away the reason to go over seas in large part, doesn't?

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

it is real simple , there is X amount of Monies minted , and X amount of Monies to the GNP ..... if you have top 10% controling that , there is a problem ..... When you have a CEO pulling in 7 figures yearly , then points the finger at a worker saying you are breaking the company cause your hourly wage is too high , then you have a problem ........

But isn't that why we have a min. wage?

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by clarker

As for as out sourcing goes why can't pass a law requiring buisnesses to pay the same wages they have to pay here to workers they employee over seas.

Clarker, you might want to rethink that argument. The Dems who voted against CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement) voted against it for this exact reason. You're becoming a Dem! rofl

[Rascal]

Some textile groups now support the pact because it could help Central American clothing manufacturers, which buy large quantities of U.S. fabric and material, compete against Chinese goods, which have almost no U.S. content.

But supporters pointed out that CAFTA would over time eliminate tariffs and other trade barriers that impede U.S. sales to the region, correcting the current situation in which 80 percent of Central American goods enter the United States duty-free but Americans must pay heavy tariffs.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163891,00.html

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

But the reason companies go over seas is to pay a cheaper wage, so if we make them pay what they have to pay here, that takes away the reason to go over seas in large part, doesn't?

What these companies are finding is , the worker structure isnt there , high turnover of help ...we cant control the Wages in other countries , but these outsourcing is great companies are finding out , this is not a bargin , in alot of cases they lose money .......

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

But isn't that why we have a min. wage?

Reps hate Min wage Bro ..... Min Wage is a democrat thing , we wanted to raise it here a few months back , but a Rep controled Congress said no way , but those same Republicans voted themselfs a raise ......

[clarker]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Clarker, you might want to rethink that argument. The Dems who voted against CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement) voted against it for this exact reason. You're becoming a Dem! rofl

I a didn't make a argument for or against CAFTA. I admited at the begining of my that post.

I was commenting on the general attitude of Libs on people who make money. They want to tear down the big man to help the little man. See how taxing a company into going out of buisness helps the people who work for it.

I hate the whinning of the rich keep getting rich.

[Rascal]

What a load of **** spider.

It wasn't just themselves they gave a raise too Spider. They gave a raise to every single DOD employee for sure, and probably every federal gov't employee. And I aint about to b**** about that.

[Rascal]

You know how many raises we got under Clinton...one and it was a messly 2.5%. Due to that we were severly underpaid and lost a lot of good people to the civilian sector. Under Bush we have had a raise almost ever year and we are getting some good people back.

I wasn't here under all of Clinton, but from what I've been told we only got one raise.

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Reps hate Min wage Bro ..... Min Wage is a democrat thing , we wanted to raise it here a few months back , but a Rep controled Congress said no way , but those same Republicans voted themselfs a raise ......

The only problem I have with min. wage is that can hurt small buisness. You talk about company's where the CO's are pulling in millions. Fine they should be made to pay a good wage to their workers.

But what about small town small buisness that are just trying to make ends meat? They have to pay the federal min. wage same as the large companies even though it is harder for them to afford it. Then to raise it? It could put them out of buisness and the people that work for them out of a job. In this case how did an extra buck or two an hour help them?

Same with a ton of other federal regs that are fair when you deal with the Wal-Marts or GM's of the world but kill small buisness.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Rascal

What a load of **** spider.

It wasn't just themselves they gave a raise too Spider. They gave a raise to every single DOD employee for sure, and probably every federal gov't employee. And I aint about to b**** about that.

Point is the Reps said no to the Average American workers , Yet Gave themselfs a pay raise ...... Has nothing to do with all goverment employees . Point I am making is , they Voted down a in wage Hike , yet passed a Pay Raise for themselfs .......

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

it is real simple , there is X amount of Monies minted , and X amount of Monies to the GNP ..... if you have top 10% controling that , there is a problem ..... When you have a CEO pulling in 7 figures yearly , then points the finger at a worker saying you are breaking the company cause your hourly wage is too high , then you have a problem ........

Basically, what I'm against is greed. And the top money makers in this country have broken every record in the two hundred year old book of greed, graft and corruption in this country's history. Plus, it's mindless, voracious greed; greed without conscious thought or a care about societal consequences. There used to be an ethic in business that part of American success was not only the profit motive, but what could you do in your community. The goods you manufactured not only created jobs, they improved your community and country. What did you add to the culture of your city? Or your country? The measure of success was the wing of the hospital in your name, or the new theatre complex, etc. Now it's your offshore, tax free asset shelter. Now it's, "Hey, I manufacture nothing. I just shift capital around and make a profit from it. If that capital shift kills a couple of thousand jobs, so what? I made a killing. That's capitalism."

Who the hell do they think buys the goods that keep this economy afloat?

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

The only problem I have with min. wage is that can hurt small buisness. You talk about company's where the CO's are pulling in millions. Fine they should be made to pay a good wage to their workers.

But what about small town small buisness that are just trying to make ends meat? They have to pay the federal min. wage same as the large companies even though it is harder for them to afford it. Then to raise it? It could put them out of buisness and the people that work for them out of a job. In this case how did an extra buck or two an hour help them?

Same with a ton of other federal regs that are fair when you deal with the Wal-Marts or GM's of the world but kill small buisness.

Wal -Mart , K Mart , Target , Have done more to kill small Mom and Pop companies , then the Min wage ever could .. See we enforce min wage , the company raises prices to compensate , But companies like Wal Mart run a volume based business , meaning they are dependent on wages . Pure Volume

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Basically, what I'm against is greed. And the top money makers in this country have broken every record in the two hundred year old book of greed, graft and corruption in this country's history. Plus, it's mindless, voracious greed; greed without conscious thought or a care about societal consequences. There used to be an ethic in business that part of American success was not only the profit motive, but what could you do in your community. The goods you manufactured not only created jobs, they improved your community and country. What did you add to the culture of your city? Or your country? The measure of success was the wing of the hospital in your name, or the new theatre complex, etc. Now it's your offshore, tax free asset shelter. Now it's, "Hey, I manufacture nothing. I just shift capital around and make a profit from it. If that capital shift kills a couple of thousand jobs, so what? I made a killing. That's capitalism."

Who the hell do they think buys the goods that keep this economy afloat?

Yep ..... thats it ... good post Roh

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Wal -Mart , K Mart , Target , Have done more to kill small Mom and Pop companies , then the Min wage ever could .. See we enforce min wage , the company raises prices to compensate , But companies like Wal Mart run a volume based business , meaning they are dependent on wages . Pure Volume

They also employ more people than a small buisness ever could as well. Those people who work fo them make money and pay in taxes. Which raises tax revenues.

But throw them out for a second. If a small buisness has to raise prices to compensate, then who does that help the wage earner who buys their products? Doesn't the increase in prices eat up the raise in min. wage?

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

They also employ more people than a small buisness ever could as well. Those people who work fo them make money and pay in taxes. Which raises tax revenues.

you go by community to community , those companies dont employ that much more , then any other store in the community ...

But throw them out for a second. If a small buisness has to raise prices to compensate, then who does that help the wage earner who buys their products? Doesn't the increase in prices eat up the raise in min. wage?

Not realy , I starting to get in deep water here , but this is a simple equation ...
Lets say I have 10 employees and we make thingambobs , we sell these wonderfull must have thingambobs for 8.95 ....
I pay all 10 min wage , Min wages goes up .50 cents an hour ..... extra 20.00 every 40 hours 200.00 a 40 period for 10 workers ... How high do I have to jack up the prices of these wonderfull must have thingambobs ?
depending on how many I sell right ?
lets say i sell 10 wonderfull must have thingambobs an hour on average ..
that alone I dont have to raise the prices , but I do ... I raise the price to 9.10 per unit ..... 15 cents total of 1.50 an hour .. am i going down the tubes ?
Like I say not very deep or good comparision , but it is the best i can do before 10:00 am

[clarker]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

you go by community to community , those companies dont employ that much more , then any other store in the community ...


Not realy , I starting to get in deep water here , but this is a simple equation ...
Lets say I have 10 employees and we make thingambobs , we sell these wonderfull must have thingambobs for 8.95 ....
I pay all 10 min wage , Min wages goes up .50 cents an hour ..... extra 20.00 every 40 hours 200.00 a 40 period for 10 workers ... How high do I have to jack up the prices of these wonderfull must have thingambobs ?
depending on how many I sell right ?
lets say i sell 10 wonderfull must have thingambobs an hour on average ..
that alone I dont have to raise the prices , but I do ... I raise the price to 9.10 per unit ..... 15 cents total of 1.50 an hour .. am i going down the tubes ?
Like I say not very deep or good comparision , but it is the best i can do before 10:00 am

I can answer the first part but can't the second. I don't even have time to read the second part. I'm suppose to be getting ready to leave on vacation and not talking with you guys.

It really does depend where you live. In a city the size Denver, sure Wal-Mart might not employe any people than other buisness. But in a small town where the nearest Wal-Mart is in Spearfish SD, when you open the door and hire around 300 people right off the bat, it does make a difference.

Any way I am way late, have a good weekend and Go...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by clarker

I can answer the first part but can't the second. I don't even have time to read the second part. I'm suppose to be getting ready to leave on vacation and not talking with you guys.

It really does depend where you live. In a city the size Denver, sure Wal-Mart might not employe any people than other buisness. But in a small town where the nearest Wal-Mart is in Spearfish SD, when you open the door and hire around 300 people right off the bat, it does make a difference.

Any way I am way late, have a good weekend and Go...

I live in Casper 50k+ ...Have a super Wal Mart here ...... about par for the course , no more , no less