This just about sums up the flag burning issue - The Orange Mane

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:21 PM

Patriots respect their country's flag

The following is a Counterpoint:

By Ed Crothers

To: Ed Cone, News & Record columnist and Triad blogger. From: "Old Glory."

You and others over some period of time have felt it is all right to burn me, stamp on me and generally show your disdain for me.

On the other hand, there have been supporters of mine who have held me high on Iwo Jima, at Omaha Beach and at Shiloh. They seem to take pride in me, and when I hurt, they hurt. I call them patriots.

Wherever I wave, you are now allowed to treat me like trash -- but it doesn't make me feel any better. I guess it is sort of like a Christian burning his Bible because God will forgive him. It stumps me how burning his Bible makes that Christian feel any closer to God. Or how an American spitting on me does much for either of us.

One of the real perks I have is being displayed along with flags from other nations. Then I really get proud. A great many of my Americans have and still do make great sacrifices to keep me flying. So it means a lot to me to fly -- and not be degraded. Fortunately for you and for me, it means a lot for me to fly to a great many of my Americans. Is it OK if I call them patriots?

Oh, and by the way, Mr. Cone, since you are all about free speech, let me give you a few words of advice that won't cost you a cent. If you plan to step on me or burn me, it would not be a good idea to do that if there is a member of our Armed Forces nearby -- like a sailor or a dogface or a Marine. They don't take kindly to that, and from that encounter you would very likely get a clear idea of how it feels to be stomped.

The writer lives in Greensboro.

SoCalBronco · 07-05-2005, 09:28 PM

I care very deeply for the flag, but the burning of the flag is an important expressive activity for those who want to convey the idea that there are things that America is doing that is wrong. Certainly it is correct to say that there are alternative channels of communication to convey the same message but sometimes you need to engage in symbolic speech to get a point across and get people to notice it. In this way, flag burning (which is something i would not do) does indeed get attention and really provides that symbolic expressive activity that the speaker is trying to send out. Its useful in the sense that something that startling will catch our attention and draw us to the speaker's argument and allow us to engage that argument. This is what is great about America here...the marketplace of ideas, you always want to foster that. I do not care for the desecrating of the flag but i understand its value in enhancing the public debate and getting people to think about why the person is performing the act.
This is one of the few areas where i agree with the Leftists.

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:34 PM

Not just armed forces ED , just about any American will blow a gasket , if they see ole glory being abused ......
I believe in free speech , but there are some things you dont do ....
1. Never Honk and fly the bird to a group of bikers
2.never ever put a patch of the American flag on the seat of your pants
3.Never ever take binoculars and stare in the sun .......
and never ever desecrate ole Glory .......

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

I care very deeply for the flag, but the burning of the flag is an important expressive activity for those who want to convey the idea that there are things that America is doing that is wrong. Certainly it is correct to say that there are alternative channels of communication to convey the same message but sometimes you need to engage in symbolic speech to get a point across and get people to notice it. In this way, flag burning (which is something i would not do) does indeed get attention and really provides that symbolic expressive activity that the speaker is trying to send out. Its useful in the sense that something that startling will catch our attention and draw us to the speaker's argument and allow us to engage that argument. This is what is great about America here...the marketplace of ideas, you always want to foster that. I do not care for the desecrating of the flag but i understand its value in enhancing the public debate and getting people to think about why the person is performing the act.
This is one of the few areas where i agree with the Leftists.

I agree we dont pass law , but I wouldnt recomend flag burning , or spitting , stomping on the flag in front of people ... good way to get hurt

SoCalBronco · 07-05-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Not just armed forces ED , just about any American will blow a gasket , if they see ole glory being abused ......
I believe in free speech , but there are some things you dont do ....
1. Never Honk and fly the bird to a group of bikers
2.never ever put a patch of the American flag on the seat of your pants
3.Never ever take binoculars and stare in the sun .......
and never ever desecrate ole Glory .......

Bro, i really admire your love for our country and our flag. I wouldnt desecrate the flag either but i just believe its an important expressive tool for people to really awaken the public to a particular debate. Sometimes you need that symbolic activity so everyone will be focused on the reason why that person did that and then really take a hard look at things.

Whattya know Spide, the time when you tilt more conservative on an issue, i just happen to be on the left. Some day, we are gonna agree on politics on some issue Bro......i promise.

clarker · 07-05-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

I agree we dont pass law , but I wouldnt recomend flag burning , or spitting , stomping on the flag in front of people ... good way to get hurt

They should never make against the law in my opinion, but as you say Spider, just because your allowed to do something, doesn't make it a good idea.

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Bro, i really admire your love for our country and our flag. I wouldnt desecrate the flag either but i just believe its an important expressive tool for people to really awaken the public to a particular debate. Sometimes you need that symbolic activity so everyone will be focused on the reason why that person did that and then really take a hard look at things.

Whattya know Spide, the time when you tilt more conservative on an issue, i just happen to be on the left. Some day, we are gonna agree on politics on some issue Bro......i promise.

. well we both can agree , we love this country and we wants whats best for her and us , we just disagree on how to get there is all

SoCalBronco · 07-05-2005, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

. well we both can agree , we love this country and we wants whats best for her and us , we just disagree on how to get there is all

Yep. One thing we undoubtedly agree on is that its absolutely essential for America's future success that we beat down on Raider and Chief Fan.

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Yep. One thing we undoubtedly agree on is that its absolutely essential for America's future success that we beat down on Raider and Chief Fan.

see we agree Bro .......

clarker · 07-05-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §Pide®

see we agree Bro .......

We can't beat down Chief fan, because that is like beating up the kids that ride the short bus to school and Raider fan will be in jail soon enough, they will get their beat down there.

Spider · 07-05-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarker

We can't beat down Chief fan, because that is like beating up the kids that ride the short bus to school and Raider fan will be in jail soon enough, they will get their beat down there.

........

Hogan11 · 07-05-2005, 09:53 PM

How can they outlaw burning the flag? I mean, if they did that, the GOP would have to find something else besides this old warhorse to trot out every election year.....maybe they can revived the Willie Horton thing or try to stir up the old hatreds of the ACLU or something......but neither would rally the troops quite like the tried and true flag burning ammendment did.....

If it does finally become law, what will they do?

clarker · 07-05-2005, 10:17 PM

Bro, i really admire your love for our country and our flag. I wouldnt desecrate the flag either but i just believe its an important expressive tool for people to really awaken the public to a particular debate. Sometimes you need that symbolic activity so everyone will be focused on the reason why that person did that and then really take a hard look at things.-SoCal

I'm 1000% against banning flag burning. I'm for every ones right to make an ass of themselves or put there foot in there mouth. I think if you say or do something you should be aware of a negative affect it might bring you. I just don't think it should come from the government.

But I don't see how burning a flag brings attention to why a person is doing it in the first place. More than likely it is just going to piss someone off to the point where you will have the exact oppisite result. All they will think about is you burning a flag and not what your protesting about.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 07-06-2005, 12:19 AM

enjolras · 07-06-2005, 11:00 AM

What I love about this issue is that it is the ONE issue that so clearly delimits those who "get it" (those who really understand what Americansism is all about) and those who don't.

Hotrod · 07-06-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

What I love about this issue is that it is the ONE issue that so clearly delimits those who "get it" (those who really understand what Americansism is all about) and those who don't.

Well said

RaiderH8r · 07-06-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

What I love about this issue is that it is the ONE issue that so clearly delimits those who "get it" (those who really understand what Americansism is all about) and those who don't.

Some burn the flag, others flush the Qu'ran...it's all expression right?

enjolras · 07-06-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

Some burn the flag, others flush the Qu'ran...it's all expression right?

Yep... doesn't make either the right thing to do, only legal.

bendog · 07-06-2005, 02:39 PM

actually, flushing the koran to intimidate prisoners wouldn't be legal. Unless one buys the notion that demeaning and torturing is somehow justifiable. But it amuses me to see that the two are equated. The one thing they do have in common is that anyone who'd do them is truly an a-hole.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 07-06-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bendog

actually, flushing the koran to intimidate prisoners wouldn't be legal. Unless one buys the notion that demeaning and torturing is somehow justifiable. But it amuses me to see that the two are equated. The one thing they do have in common is that anyone who'd do them is truly an a-hole.

Not to mention the ramifications for the U.S. effort to "win hearts and minds" in Iraq and elsewhere as Bush "spreads democracy and freedom."

Funny how the wingnuts never seem to get this.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 07-06-2005, 08:48 PM

07-05-2005, 09:21 PM	#1
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	This just about sums up the flag burning issue Patriots respect their country's flag The following is a Counterpoint: By Ed Crothers To: Ed Cone, News & Record columnist and Triad blogger. From: "Old Glory." You and others over some period of time have felt it is all right to burn me, stamp on me and generally show your disdain for me. On the other hand, there have been supporters of mine who have held me high on Iwo Jima, at Omaha Beach and at Shiloh. They seem to take pride in me, and when I hurt, they hurt. I call them patriots. Wherever I wave, you are now allowed to treat me like trash -- but it doesn't make me feel any better. I guess it is sort of like a Christian burning his Bible because God will forgive him. It stumps me how burning his Bible makes that Christian feel any closer to God. Or how an American spitting on me does much for either of us. One of the real perks I have is being displayed along with flags from other nations. Then I really get proud. A great many of my Americans have and still do make great sacrifices to keep me flying. So it means a lot to me to fly -- and not be degraded. Fortunately for you and for me, it means a lot for me to fly to a great many of my Americans. Is it OK if I call them patriots? Oh, and by the way, Mr. Cone, since you are all about free speech, let me give you a few words of advice that won't cost you a cent. If you plan to step on me or burn me, it would not be a good idea to do that if there is a member of our Armed Forces nearby -- like a sailor or a dogface or a Marine. They don't take kindly to that, and from that encounter you would very likely get a clear idea of how it feels to be stomped. The writer lives in Greensboro.

07-05-2005, 09:28 PM	#2
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,313 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	I care very deeply for the flag, but the burning of the flag is an important expressive activity for those who want to convey the idea that there are things that America is doing that is wrong. Certainly it is correct to say that there are alternative channels of communication to convey the same message but sometimes you need to engage in symbolic speech to get a point across and get people to notice it. In this way, flag burning (which is something i would not do) does indeed get attention and really provides that symbolic expressive activity that the speaker is trying to send out. Its useful in the sense that something that startling will catch our attention and draw us to the speaker's argument and allow us to engage that argument. This is what is great about America here...the marketplace of ideas, you always want to foster that. I do not care for the desecrating of the flag but i understand its value in enhancing the public debate and getting people to think about why the person is performing the act. This is one of the few areas where i agree with the Leftists. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

07-05-2005, 09:53 PM	#12
Hogan11 Rock-N-Roll Historian Let's take these SOB's out!!!!!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: W.NY.B.C. Posts: 21,300 Adopt-a-Bronco: Floyd Little	How can they outlaw burning the flag? I mean, if they did that, the GOP would have to find something else besides this old warhorse to trot out every election year.....maybe they can revived the Willie Horton thing or try to stir up the old hatreds of the ACLU or something......but neither would rally the troops quite like the tried and true flag burning ammendment did..... If it does finally become law, what will they do? Last edited by Hogan11; 07-05-2005 at 10:04 PM..

07-05-2005, 10:17 PM	#13
clarker Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,445	Bro, i really admire your love for our country and our flag. I wouldnt desecrate the flag either but i just believe its an important expressive tool for people to really awaken the public to a particular debate. Sometimes you need that symbolic activity so everyone will be focused on the reason why that person did that and then really take a hard look at things.-SoCal I'm 1000% against banning flag burning. I'm for every ones right to make an ass of themselves or put there foot in there mouth. I think if you say or do something you should be aware of a negative affect it might bring you. I just don't think it should come from the government. But I don't see how burning a flag brings attention to why a person is doing it in the first place. More than likely it is just going to piss someone off to the point where you will have the exact oppisite result. All they will think about is you burning a flag and not what your protesting about. Last edited by clarker; 07-06-2005 at 12:21 AM..

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07-05-2005, 09:34 PM	#3
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Not just armed forces ED , just about any American will blow a gasket , if they see ole glory being abused ...... I believe in free speech , but there are some things you dont do .... 1. Never Honk and fly the bird to a group of bikers 2.never ever put a patch of the American flag on the seat of your pants 3.Never ever take binoculars and stare in the sun ....... and never ever desecrate ole Glory .......

07-06-2005, 12:19 AM	#14
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694

07-06-2005, 11:00 AM	#15
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,941	What I love about this issue is that it is the ONE issue that so clearly delimits those who "get it" (those who really understand what Americansism is all about) and those who don't.

07-06-2005, 02:39 PM	#19
bendog Marginally Continent David Bowens, he'd be an upgrade Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 19,935 Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens	actually, flushing the koran to intimidate prisoners wouldn't be legal. Unless one buys the notion that demeaning and torturing is somehow justifiable. But it amuses me to see that the two are equated. The one thing they do have in common is that anyone who'd do them is truly an a-hole.

07-06-2005, 08:48 PM	#21
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694

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